Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Making 2000Ft spools

This is topic Making 2000Ft spools in forum Film Handlers' Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.

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Posted by Luciano Brigite (Member # 1104) on 06-27-2002, 04:02 PM:

Hi all
I have a question here about the old 2000Ft reels used in projectors with spool boxes.
Both of my Kalee's have these boxes and I don't want to take them away and put a set of arms to run 6000Ft reels because each set will cost me more than half the price I paid for each projector and each 6000ft reel is also a bit expensive to me.
The 2000Ft reel are rare stuff here where I live and damm hard to find , specially in good, usable condition and decent price.
There's a company here that'd make them on request but the price would be the same for 6000Ft ones and I'd have to request some 20 reels and it's beyond what I can spent right now.
My question is, I have here about a hundred of those plastic cores that comes with the film in the cans ( the normal sized ones) and was thinking about using them as the center of a 2000 Ft reel but I'm not sure if the core's size will be the right one for a reel and if using it, the film won't get forced when the reel is about to end ( too much tension because of the small diameter of the core) wich will cause some damage to the sprockets and maybe to the mech in case it gets too "tight"
If these cores can be used, what kind of material I'd use for the sides of the reel? I was thinking about something like acrilic (sp?) or similar, any sugestion?

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 06-27-2002, 04:07 PM:

Generally, for feed and takeup reels ("spools"), a larger hub reduces the tension variation on the film. The normal 50mm and 75mm cores are likely too small to give good results. A 100mm or 125mm diameter would be preferred.

Frankly, it may be more cost-effective to find a source of cast metal "house reels", or at the very least, some of the older design high quality (one piece, not split-apart) plastic shipping reels.

------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7525A
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: +1 585 477 5325 Cell: +1 585 781 4036 Fax: +1 585 722 7243
e-mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com
Web site: http://www.kodak.com/go/motion

Posted by Bruce Hansen (Member # 281) on 06-27-2002, 04:44 PM:

Could you get a few split reels? That way you could store your prints on cores, and use the split reels to project them.

Posted by Luciano Brigite (Member # 1104) on 06-27-2002, 05:02 PM:

The Idea of using split reels came to mind too but all the split reels I know of and worked with won't let me put both parts toguehter if the film has the plastic core with it and don't know why, they costs the same as one large, 6000Ft reel. ( the split reels I know aren't the shipping reels you're used to see, they're used only during the build up process of any print here and are metal reels, no plastic)

I'm not sure if the house reels John Pytlak mentioned in his reply are the ones I'm thinking of.. the ones made using the foundry style process, instead of the metal sheet ones I got. these are even harder to find here,same thing apply to the plastic ones. plastic reels are only known here for use with 16mm. the prints we get to run in the theatres here in Brazil doesn't come in shipping reels but in separate cans. even the plastic cores are disapearing here again

Posted by Gerard S. Cohen (Member # 994) on 06-27-2002, 05:33 PM:

When old theatres convert to platters, or close, the welded iron or cast duraluminum "Goldberg type" 2,000 house reels are often stashed
in attic, basement or behind the screen storage areas, gathering dust.
A visit to the foreman of a demolition crew, or owner or manager of a
renovated theatre, sometimes enables one to strike it rich. On Long
Island's North Shore, I have seen estate tag sales where the contents of private screening rooms contained such reels, often in the old "Neumade type" film storage cabinets. I had no idea these reels would some day be hard to find in some locations. Have you checked theatre supply warehouses for used house reels?
[When a house reel had a slightly bent flange, projectionists used
to dab the hub with paint, indicating "Run with this side out" so it
wouldn't scrape the film magazine.] We would not run film on sheet
metal shipping reels, except perhaps during the last show, when the film was shipping out, but only if all shipping reels were in good shape.

Posted by Luciano Brigite (Member # 1104) on 06-27-2002, 05:49 PM:

Yes, I already checked everywhere I know that deals with theatre equipment and none of them have these reels.
I'm not sure if all theatres here did it, but most of them, when changed to towers or platters or changed to 6000Ft reels, the 2000Ft ones, along with the spool boxes went stright to the dumpster. the only thing the theatre suppliers ehre will get back are the projectors and film trasport system ( tower or platter). the rest is left in the theatre and then sent to dumpster after some time

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 06-27-2002, 06:59 PM:

You got to be kidding! I deal in these reels all of the time (and those Neutype reel cabinets too). Unfortunately for you, I am not located in Brazil.

What size spindles do you use? 5/16" or 9mm? In the US, 5/16" is standard (for 2000') in metric speaking countries, the 9mm spindle for the 600m reel is common.

You can see most of the items discussed...2000' cast reel, Neutype 12-reel storage cabinet and a 2000' 35mm split reel (apart). This is from my most recent installation...the Goethe Institut (pronounced Gir-Ta Institute) in Washington DC. The other pictures will hopefully make it to the picture gallery someday soon.

I suppose, if you are interested, we can see about shipping...if you desire, contact me via e-mail.

Steve

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"Old projectionists never die, they just changeover!"

Posted by Luciano Brigite (Member # 1104) on 06-27-2002, 10:23 PM:

ooh.. I was right in my thought about how a cast reel would looks like.
unfortunately I never saw any of these around here. If I recall it right.. there's a small view of one in the picture of someone here in the forum that seems to be the few ones I got. I'm saying here they're made of metal sheet but I am not sure if it's the right term for them.
The spindles seems to be 5/16" with a small tab to keep the reel from sipping on it ( like the spindles on simplex's spool boxes, but mine is a gaumont-kalee model 12 ,the sizes seems to be the same.)I'll check it to make sure of it's size.
The split reels we use here are nowhere close to the ones in the picture. they're made of metal bars welded toguether along with a large ring and nothing to keep both parts toguether, put them to run on the makeup table or projector and one of the sides will fly away tru the booth .
The storage cabinet is something I know. one of the theatres I worked in some years ago had two of these taking space in the already small booth and wasn't being used but no reels in any of them .

As you all already noted.. I'm a changeover (and carbon lamp) fan

Posted by Adam Fraser (Member # 1074) on 06-27-2002, 11:06 PM:

You might use an online auction site as a last resort. I couldnt see shipping running too high. I see the cast Goldberg reels on Ebay ( www.ebay.com ) all the time going at fairly decent prices.

------------------
Adam Fraser
www.pinestheatre.com

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 06-27-2002, 11:21 PM:

Ok, the next picture has what is commonly called a "sheet metal reel." It is a 6000' reel but they come in just about any size imaginable. They also come with fixed flanges (solid hub) and floating hub (the ones shown)...

BTW this photo is of the current state of the Williamsburg Theatre's (now called the Kimball Theatre) main projection booth. There are pictures here in the gallery of how it used to look.

This booth uses 1/2" spindles (it was that way long before I became involved with the project) which are preferred for running large (6000'+) reels. BTW 9mm spindles use a drive dog pin rather than the "key" that is associated with the 5/16" spindle.

Steve

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"Old projectionists never die, they just changeover!"

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 06-28-2002, 04:26 AM:

Ahem, not to pull a Steve Guttag here, but Steve, that reel pictured is a 7000 footer, not a 6000 footer.

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 06-28-2002, 06:10 AM:

Kodak's subsidiary FPC sometimes has "reconditioned" reels for sale:
FPC Reels

Posted by Richard Fowler (Member # 893) on 06-28-2002, 07:41 AM:

Most of the reels I have seen in Brazil are locally made wire spoke reels which are like the ones seen in Spain.
Richard Fowler
TVP-Theatre & Video Products Inc. www.tvpmiami.com

Posted by Luciano Brigite (Member # 1104) on 06-28-2002, 03:49 PM:

Hmm.. that big sheet metal reel in the last picture isn't like the one I'm talking about. I'll take a look again in the picture's section to find any that has the reel I'm talking about.
Steve, I'll drop you an email later about the cast reels.
The reels Mr.Fowler mentioned in his message are likely to be the ones I have to deal with from time to time.. unfortunately they're only made for 6000Ft or bigger, for towers.
I checked the spindle size in my Gk and it's 5/16".