This is topic any experience with JBL new 4622/4622N main speakers and 8340A surrounds? in forum Film Handlers' Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.
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Posted by David Baum (Member # 568) on 06-28-2002, 04:13 AM:
hianyone is already using them or heard them ?
thanks
Posted by Richard Fowler (Member # 893) on 06-28-2002, 07:35 AM:
The JBL 4622 series is an improvement over the 4670D system which is used for small to middle sized rooms. The horn flare is more downward firing to give an more even spread for a stadium type of room and is also designed to more closely mate to the screen surface for better projection. The JBL 8340A surround is very effecient speaker for digital use for middle to large rooms. The 4622 we have installed in 18 cinemas and the 8340 and 8340A in more than 100. KCS makes a "knockoff" of the 8340 and will probably offer a copy of the 4622 in the future. Europe distribution is a little strange but in other parts of the world, they are the best consistant value for the product offered.
Richard Fowler
TVP-Theatre & Video Products Inc. www.tvpmiami.com
Richard Fowler
Posted by Richard Fowler (Member # 893) on 06-28-2002, 07:37 AM:
I was talking about JBL's European distribution set-up.
Richard Fowler
TVP-Theatre & Video Products Inc. www.tvpmiami.com
Posted by David Baum (Member # 568) on 06-28-2002, 07:54 AM:
hi Richardthanks for the input. Wasn't the 8340 sounding a bit better ( more "audiophile") than the plastic 8340A though ?
Posted by Richard Fowler (Member # 893) on 06-28-2002, 11:01 AM:
We have used both in the same room when the 8340 was being depleted and the 8340A was being introduced ( we put the 8340 on the EX channel rear ) and found no great difference in a large field space of a cinema. We have put the KCS side by side to the JBL and you do note a difference, especially at high levels. the 8340 and 8330, I have seen "knockoff" systems from Latin America and Asia....so it is follow the leader 
Richard Fowler
TVP-Theatre & Video Products Inc. www.tvpmiami.com
Posted by David Baum (Member # 568) on 06-28-2002, 05:17 PM:
reassure me : the JBL 4622 sound better than KCS, right ?
Posted by Richard Fowler (Member # 893) on 06-28-2002, 06:17 PM:
I have sold both but I sell and stock more JBL....besides Wassman using Spanish components so does Krix in some of their boxes. We have test equipment for speaker checks and design compliance since we where into building most of the boxes we sold in the early 1990's. When it became busy we contracted out two boxes to two major manufacturers and when the 8340 was introduced, we stopped building a surround with about the same specs. There is plenty of diverse product in the market and we try to keep up since we also sell to studios, hotels and other commercial applications......luckily our warehouse is two blocks away from private housing as we have done some pretty strange sound checks in the evening...to the point of the local police checking out the situation.
Richard Fowler
TVP-Theatre & Video Products Inc. www.tvpmiami.com
Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 06-28-2002, 07:37 PM:
While I can't comment on the HF section of the 4622, the LF section (4639) is definately not as good as the 4670's LF section (4648) in terms of repsonse (flatness and deepness of bass). The 2380 horn used for the 4670 is not the best horn in the world and it has almost no control below 1KHz. If you have the depth, I'd put the JBL 4675 (bi-amped natch) up against all of the speakers listed above. It is the best sounding, most reliable and widest/smoothest response.
The 8340A is a fine surround speaker featuring good response, great sensitivity, decent power handling, and pleasing sound. Furthermore it is lightweight and easy to install.
Steve
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"Old projectionists never die, they just changeover!"
Posted by Richard Fowler (Member # 893) on 06-28-2002, 07:54 PM:
The 4675 is a great speaker but most cinema owners want the extra row of seats they lose installing this box 
......it is one of the basic systems we stock. We did two installs in the past few weeks in two performing arts centers ( which show film premiers ) using this speaker....one a perfectly designed acoustical space and the other a steel frame and glass pane building...you can guess which one which was harder to EQ...the glass building was a former train station.
Richard Fowler
TVP-Theatre & Video Products Inc. www.tvpmiami.com
Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 06-28-2002, 09:50 PM:
I would say the 4675 would not be a good choice for the steel and glass box...in such a situation, one is looking for "control" to minimize the room's contribution. In these situations, a horn-loaded speaker almost always is a better choice.As to the extra row of seats...is there any wonder that exhibitors compete for bankruptcy? Compromise the sound on ALL films so they can boast about seats they only fill periodically and when the percentages are not in the exhibitor's favor.
One thing I have noticed on the 3-way version of the screen arrays is that their high-end drops like a tank above 12KHz. Does the 4622 suffer as well? It uses a different horn/driver (3" diaphragm)
If it outperforms the the 2380 then it might make a good top-end to the 4648 LF cabinet in smaller rooms (the 2446 is a tough driver to beat in sheer output).
Steve
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"Old projectionists never die, they just changeover!"
Posted by Richard Fowler (Member # 893) on 06-28-2002, 10:11 PM:
A combination of aiming, location on stage, stadium type seating with the upholstered seat backs( or bodies in seats ) and a rear drape to catch the initial sound slap worked in our favor.....there was more work on the multiple delays for surrounds due to the long throw and rear balcony area. We had two years to figure the game plan; the funny part the projection equipment is sitting exposed in the rear of the "glass house" since the government agency ran out of budget money to build the booth walls ( next year's budget )at least the floor was constructed so the equipment could be hard-wired in.
Richard Fowler
TVP-Theatre & Video Products Inc. www.tvpmiami.com
Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 06-28-2002, 11:43 PM:
There is really no audible difference between the 8340 and the plastic "A" version. In fact the plastic versions of the JBL surrounds are a safer bet to hang on the wall of a cinema as they weigh considerably less. The only audible difference I know of has been detected north of the border on the early 32 bit software versions, so as long as you are installing them south of the border you'll be just fine....hehehehe
Mark @ GTS
Posted by Richard Fowler (Member # 893) on 06-28-2002, 11:56 PM:
In one sales meeting with a client....give me plastic, no more wood surrounds...we where in a bid situation where a competitor's speaker was $30.00 less, but the speaker bracket for the "heavy" speaker made them more expensive than the 8340A + the matching wall bracket 
We have also had less shipping damage with the plastic 8340A.
Richard Fowler
TVP-Theatre & Video Products Inc. www.tvpmiami.com
Posted by David Baum (Member # 568) on 06-29-2002, 04:49 AM:
hi SteveI also admire the 4675C ! and I hope JBL doesn't stop them. It's also a sort of heritage ( but much better some say ) to the 1960's Altec Voice of the Theater i think ( I have seen these in a "normal" home theater! )
I would even go as far as installing it in large (12x6m+) home theaters behind microperforated screens (4-5meters screens 
)
on the 8340A, it seems thus the consensus is that's it a good surround.
Posted by Richard Fowler (Member # 893) on 06-29-2002, 08:27 AM:
I think the 4675C will be around since it has reached "classic" status
with the technical Academy Award the designers received last year and the fact that almost every competitor has a copy the box in their lineup.
Richard Fowler
TVP-Theatre & Video Products Inc. www.tvpmiami.com
Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 06-29-2002, 10:03 AM:
I would never say the 4675 is better than the Altec stuff but I would say it is different and definately has it's applications. The 4675 was designed to go into modern theatres whereas the Altec stuff was designed to go into a barn with balconies and 100'+ throws. Oh and the Altec practically runs on solar power. Compare the Altec A-4 to the 4675...the A-4 is a 108dB/1-watt speaker...the 4675 is 100dB...using Kitchen physics/math call it a 9 dB difference for ease...say the A-4 tops out at 300 watts using the standard drivers...the 4675 would need 2400 watts to equal it's output...whereas it can only handle 1200 watts using it's mighty 2226 drivers. Plunk in the 515-16GHP dirvers and you are up to a 800 watt cabinet...the 4675 would need 6400 watts! Again these are approximate numbers and a bit biased for the Alec (it is only 8 dB more sensitive, not 9)
On another thread awhile ago, I actually ran the numbers on the A-7 and possibly the A-5 if used today in digital applications. The real limiting factor in the A-7 is the weak HF driver (800/900 series driver).
I remember going to one of the shows when EAW rolled out it's latest 3-way speaker for cinema (it is the current one) and hearing about it's asymentrical midrange horn...and such...I responded..."so you reinvented the A-5?...right down to the horn shape. In fact most of the 3-ways out today are little more than 3-way versions of what Altec accomplished with 2-way systems. In fact, put some base-wings on an A-5 and watch the response go down to 40Hz.
Wanna talk about Constant Directivity HF horns? I've heard nobody's compare favorably to a Mantaray (MR-94, MR-64 or MRII594A). The response is dead flat and even anywhere within the coverage of the horn. Of course, when most people in this business picture an Altec speaker, they picture the Multi-cell...which, in it's day, did fine for filling a barn with sound on 5-10 watts.
For those that want to see an A-5 with a large format MR-94 mantaray horn, check out the Lyric theatre in the gallery here.
When I look at the "new" 3-way systems that are out today...I think...the more things change, the more they stay the same.
As to the 4675...since JBL recently redesigned the 2360 horn to the new assembly nightmare, and the cabinet is used in several speaker systems, not to mention the system uses some staple JBL drivers....I think it is still pretty safe. Of course, the best way to keep something in production is to BUY it!
Steve
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"Old projectionists never die, they just changeover!"
Posted by David Baum (Member # 568) on 06-29-2002, 11:42 AM:
Your knowledge always impresses me Steve . yeah, those Altec have incredible sensitivity. 8dB is like twice as loud to the ears.I do plan to get those 4675C some day and at the price... it's a bargain... (i didn't say which price )
Posted by Richard Fowler (Member # 893) on 06-29-2002, 11:52 AM:
The Mantaray was indeed a nice horn...an end product from some research that Altec did for the U.S. Navy. The "new" Altec corporation debut at the NSCA trade show two months ago with commercial sound contractor items but I doubt they will re-enter the cinema market. U.S. and International pricing on JBL products are different, with International ( or as JBL prefers to call it Intercontinental ) getting a better price break. JBL is very strict in making sure where the product is shipped so as to protect from price abuses.
Richard Fowler
TVP-Theatre & Video Products Inc. www.tvpmiami.com
Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 06-30-2002, 12:22 AM:
Here is a tid-bit Richard...the 515G and 299A are indeed going back into production! Whereas they were the drivers of the voice of the theatre equipment...one never knows! I am curious though since I haven't heard what system they will be put in or on. I don't think the new Altec corp. got the Mantaray molds nor have I heard about any 828 cabinet production. I would personally hope the 604/620 combination came back...that was a SWEEEEEEEET speaker.Steve
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"Old projectionists never die, they just changeover!"