The film is long, over 3 hours, after about 2 hours into the movie, the loop after the intermitent dissapeared, and then the extra slack went on the the other side of the next roller. Also, the roller at the bottom of the projector, before going to the platter came off of alignment, so the film was going against bare metal. It wasnt emulsion side, and the film was running, so I decided I would keep it rolling. Then after aboutt 10-15 minutes of that, the film was constantly going in and out of focus, usually the focus knob would fix it, but then the last time I had to focus it... the focus knob didnt, I couldnt turn the focus knob anymore, so I decided I would losen the lens, and pull it out ever so slightly, so that fixed it, eventually. Then as fate would have it, there was no tension up to the platter, boom failsafe took in to effect, and then the projector went off (as expeccted). But I am wondering what caused the loop to "shift" like that, I believe it was right at a splice, and if not right at, right around... but at it would make more sense. So what could of caused this overall problem, and what could I do to prevent this in the future.

What it almost looked like was that it came off the sprockets on the sprocket after the intermitent, but then why did it run the first couple hours fine?

(BTW I have an old century projector, I believe a JJ)

Thank you so much, I know I have had lots of questions recently, but, hey, thats how I learn I guess.

Thank You.

Brent Arnold
 

But the thing is I did a pre-screening (for myself) to make sure it was fine... and it was.

So that is why a bad splice seems kind of out of the question. But I didnt clean the gate between this showing but I cleaned it not too long ago (maybe 2 other films ran through it)

How do I adjust the pad roller clearance.
 

You need to be really anal in checking for perf damage in an older print. The odd perf can probably be taped over, but for any sustained damage, operate an 'if in doubt, cut it out' policy. Also, some projectors are more tolerant than others of perf damage, and I guess you'll gradually get used to what you can get away with and what not. For example, an FP-20 is extremely kind, and in my experience will run a print that ought not to be showable. A GK-37, on the other hand, is very unforgiving - the slightest perf damage will cause a snarl-up, and anything other than a perfect join will break under the pressure from the sound lay-on rollers (they're similar to the pinch rollers on a Dolby CAT700 digital pickup, only the pressure is much higher). I've never used a Century JJ and so could not comment.

Give us some details and describe the layout of your booth please.

I ran across one just the other week where someone used a hunk of splicing tape and just wrapped it around the film. No sprocket holes or nothing! Supposedly, it was a "repair of an out-of-frame" splice from the previous night's screening, and I didn't check it before I ran it. Result was I had a shut-down.

Needless to say, the Simplex XL didn't like that splice. It popped two pad rollers, and derailed itself in the soundhead.

The only machine I know of that would handle something like that would be an old Brenkert.

Brenkerts Rule!

I know you like Moshees, I wish I had that booth of yours.

I will admit they are good machines.

I know you felt that "the show must go on". But this is one of those cases where "Film Done Right" would say you stop the projector, correct the lost loop, and recheck the film path. The film "going against bare metal" probably left permanent base-side (black) scratches on the print.

If it makes you feel better, I once had a splice break just prior to the take-up reel early in one of the reels of GWTW, and found a few minutes of film spilling onto the floor. Rather than interrupt the show for a few minutes to put the film on a new takeup reel, I ran the entire reel onto the dirty floor of the drive-in booth. Using proper technique, I was able to wind the "spaghetti" back onto a reel without tangling or causing additional film damage. But I still feel guilty for getting the reel dirty by not doing "the right thing". (These were the ancient days before good film cleaners).

------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7525A
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: +1 585 477 5325 Cell: +1 585 781 4036 Fax: +1 585 722 7243
e-mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com
Web site: http://www.kodak.com/go/motion
 

Actually I met a guy that used to be an engineer at Motiograph a number of years ago that hated the thing. He also said they never got rid of the flicker in them. Something caused by the barrel shutter, and all the excess gearing in the mechanism. He also mentioned that when the mechanism developed excess gear backlash form wear that it was really noticable.
I service a 5 screen and a single screen that has AA's and I have yet to see the flicker that he was talking about. These are all running with Super Lume-Ex's. I sure do hate changing those shutter bearings though.
Mark @ GTS

 

But in the New England area, they are probably in someone's screening room or serving as a static display.

Side weave on the Brenkerts will happen because all the gate parts are finally worn out after 50 years. Replace the slides, guides and refurbish the the film gate lateral guide roller and set them to spec, and that problem will go away for another 50 years.

Porno houses and drive-in's liked the Brenkerts. You should have seen some of the crap I had to run through mine at the drive-in....

I think the Brenkerts and Motiographs are the only machines that would pass an 8-inch piece of film without any sprocket perfs whatsoever on one side without jumping out of frame or spitting the film out.

Does the old Carbon-Arc screening room in Seattle still run Motiographs?

But, our platters are on the left side of the projector... if you are facing the setup from behind.

When I was told to thread my projector, I was told to have tension to the sound head, quite a bit, so I dont get a Wobbly sound... I guess I can have a little less tension there.

I checked my gate after showing, and it was clean. But, I am thinking it could of been too thick of a splice going through. This film had sometimes 6 or 7 splices in a row(sometimes with more than one layer of tape). I couldn't figure out if it would be worse to take out that film, or leave the splices. I guess when in doubtb, next time, I will take out some of the film, so no more than one splicee goes through. I didnt think about the film not being able to flex enough.

Oh yes, I was not really trained on the projector. I had one day worth of training. I had been doing technical work (live theatre) for a while, and they assumed I didnt really need to be trained on film, so I wasnt really trained, so I was learning film for the first time, while learning how to thread this projector.

I always thread my platters with the sound towards the post, is that the correct way of doing it?

The platter deck we have is the Christie AW3.

Thank You.

Brent

I prefer the sound track away from the tree on pay-out, and towards the tree on take-up. You might want to experiment on how you want to do it. Sometimes it might look like the film is fighting the rollers if the twist is in the position it does not like.

I have noticed that the film likes to flop counter-clockwise if you let it go from your fingers about 1 foot or so from the pay-out head. This appears to be a natural twist, that that is what you would like to have. That would put the sound track pointing away from the tree.

I have also noticed an occassional derail on the first roller from the pay-out head if the film is twisted towards the tree, especially those platters that don't have a keeper on them.

I never recall having a derail on that roller if I have the sound track pointing away from the tree.

With platters, I always run soundtrack-up (emulsion out) and thread with the soundtrack side away from the post; with reels, I use the conventional "S-wind" (heads-out/emulsion-out and tails-out/emulsion-in). There are differing opinions on this, however, and it's probably best to do whatever the people you work with are doing in order to avoid confusion.
 

------------------
Jan Hackett
Theater Operations Manager
Extreme Screen Dynatheater
NM Museum of Natural History Foundation
 

I run sound up on the platters.

-Brent
 

You may be inexperienced; because of the way you were thrown in the booth, the lack of training obvously isn't your fault. But brent, you have the right stuff. You are caring enough to want to run a perfect show and humble enough to ask questions when you don't have the answers yourself. Congratulations -- you will make a great projectionist.

Try to get your hands on all manuals for the each piece of equipment in the booth. Those manuals are usually stashed away SOMEWHERE in the theatre. There is a wealth of manuals right here on Film-Tech. Read as much as you can and, as you can see from the posts here to your questions, there are others of us who have been around the block a few times (and up and down the stairs to the booth even more) who are happy to give you any help we can. Pick our brains; when you come in contact with other projectionists who you think are knowledgeable, don't be afraid to pick their brains.

Thing is, don't get discouraged --we've all had stop-stoppers. John mentioned film playing out on the floor instead of on the take-up reel. It's happened to all of us. In a booth I worked at, before they got a supply of good aluminum "house reels," we had to use those old bent up sheet metal shipping reels. No matter how meticulously you tried to get the kinks out of those metal flanges -- bending them with plyers and wacking them with hammers, they were always one revolution away from jamming in the magazines -- which is why we ran with the magazine doors tied opened. And when we DID look over only to see 10 minutes of film piled up on the floor all around the projector, we quickly learned how to run to get a better reel, swap it out with the problem reel, find the end of the film, threading it into the new empty reel and feed all the film that had collected on the floor BACK onto the new reel -- all without stopping the show!

Tricks you learn by being there, doing it, and then tucking the fixes that you discover by trial and error in the back of your brain for future reference. Next thing you know, you will be posting your favorite tricks and tips and weird experiences here instead of asking questions.

One thing, though, when you get a print of a classic film like DR ZHIVAGO, you have to keep in mind that, unlike any new film that might be in current release that you might run, these classics probably have only a handful of prints, and it's not very likely that more prints will be struck any time soon. So when they come into your hands, you become more of a curator than a projectionist. It becomes supremely important to handle these precious classics with special care. Whereas with a print that is in current release, you may side with cutting damage out; with a rarer classic print, you always want to side with KEEPING frames rather than cutting them out, and still making as good a repair as possible. Try to take as conservative an approach as possible with film repair. Almost any damage can be repaired with the right tools and today's technology, even though the average theatre may not be able to do much more than cut and splice. In the hands of a film preservation house, that same multiple spliced footage most likely can be made runable. If you do think a series of splices or damaged sprocket holes might not run through your projector and you opt to cut the section out, then at least put the damaged film back in the can, roll it neatly if it is a long section or place it in a manila envelope if it is just a few frames, so that either the distributor or the next art house can opt to make a more substantial repair when they get the print. And don't be afraid of multiple splices in a row. They may look scarry, but if they are properly made, they will run through any well maintained projector head. And no doubt, very soon you will be able tell if a piece of film with splices will play, just by looking at them and feeling with your hand.

Usually the real problem with splices is that they have been cut with misaligned splicers so that when the two frames are butted against each other in a correctly aligned splicer, there is a minute gap and the two film ends do not support itself each other at the joint. This will cause the film to "fold" at the joint a make that WHACK sound as it goes through the gate. Lots of stress is created at that splice and sooner or later it will snag or jump as it enters or exits the gate (and who knows what happens as it journies in those platter contraptions ). There are even tricks to help such poor splice joints other than cutting out and loosing a frame.

So keep up the good work. And continue to ask questions. There isn't anything that will do a guy in faster than thinking he knows it all.

1. Because (assuming the print is triacetate) the film base itself will be physically more fragile than newer stock. As it deacetylates it becomes brittle, and it may also have shrunk slightly.

2. Becuase it will have received a lot more handling, some of it from people who don't know and/or care how to handle film properly. The result will be physical defects (e.g. faulty joins or damaged perforations) which need to be repaired before the print will run without breaking.

3. Because the picture and/or sound format may be an unusual and non-standard one, which you will need to be able to recognise.

Once you're able to put on a good, reliable show with a 1970s print the new releases will seem like kids' stuff...
 

Also, if you get a used print that has a bunch of ID frames spliced together on the leaders, never EVER run those through a projector! Always peel the tape off of the last solid frame and splice there, leaving the fanfold menagerie of ID frames on the leader. You are just begging for problems by running those and are doing your customers a disservice, as one quick jump in the action is far less annoying than seeing a bunch of horribly mis-registered frames and loud pops in the soundtrack as they run through.

Regarding the AW3, there is less of a twist if when running soundtrack up if the soundtrack always and without fail faces the tree. Most other platters are happier when the soundtrack is turned away from the tree on payout. However if the film is derailing on an AW3 when twisted in this manner, the rollers on the post are not aligned properly. A quick comparison of the film threaded both ways while standing directly opposite the tree will reveal the twist is less when the soundtrack is toward the tree.

Also, in almost every instance, if the platter is on the non-operator side of the projector, the soundtrack should be AWAY from the screen to and from the projector. There is an age old "law" that says the film must be twisted so that the soundtrack points toward the screen when it is traveling to the projector, but pointing away from the screen when returning. This is just stupid, as if the platter is perfectly and exactly aligned beside the projector, the film will do a 90 degree twist which means neither way matters. However in almost every instance I see the platters are just a bit farther back from the wall than the upper magazine roller of the projector is, which means that to put the least stress on the film, you want that soundtrack away from the wall at all times.

Also, upper magazine rollers should always be aligned directly above the input roller, for rollers that are swung outward toward the screen must be angled. This angling can cause scratching if not aligned perfectly and wears out the threading leader many times faster than a roller that is aligned so that the film travels directly downward. Remember that it is common to find one brain on a platter exhibits a bit more back-tension than another, so an angled roller can only be properly aligned to one brain. Also, any bounce coming from the platter on payout can cause the film to intermittently scratch on a roller flange. This is why I detest seeing rollers set up in this manner, yet damn near every installation I see they are done like that. There is no excuse for that sort of nonsense. The only way to guarantee that regardless of how bad the bounce is or what the back-tension is that the film will not get damaged is for an upper magazine roller to be straight up and down. Of course the lower roller doesn't matter how it is angled because the platter will always pull with the same amount of tension.

Below is a good alignment

Below is a bad alignment

Regarding the regular threading of a platter to minimize twists, I can take some pictures for you if you need.

i agree, could have been a bad splice, or maybe a "fat" splice with multiple layers of tape??

to adjust: attached to the pad roller arm is a screw with a nut on it. losen the nut, and back off the screw so the gap isn't so large. the distance should fit two layers of film (not too snug, not too lose). play w/ it.

Mike
 

To identify a Century JJ... the most obvious is that it has dual 35/70 sprockets. The two rows of 35mm teeth are inside the two rows of 70mm teeth, and recessed a bit.