This is topic Simplex in forum Film Handlers' Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.
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Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 07-12-2002, 07:20 PM:
Why can't they design a Simplex that does NOT leak oil? Also, why would anyone buy a projector that leaks oil? It's defective right "out of the box!" I don't want oil on my wall/floor. None. Ever. You also need to wear an apron just to work on the thing. I would think that the Strong engineers could come up with a way to keep the Simplex design the way some people like it, yet prevent it from leaking oil ever under normal operating conditions and of course being properly maintained. But then again Strong has a hard time designing their platter brains so that they are easy and quick to thread.Perhaps the designers of such stuff should spend time working in a movie theater running the equipment. I bet we'd see tons of design improvements then!
Posted by Ben Wales (Member # 92) on 07-12-2002, 07:24 PM:
Why can't they design a Simplex that does NOT leak oil?May be Simplex has a interest in the Oil Industry 
Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 07-12-2002, 08:51 PM:
Ben--they do. The manual says "use only genuine Simplex oil." They did screw up with the 5-star soundheads, though, as those don't require oil like the SH-1000s do. Joe--the 1998-vintage Simplexes that I've been working with lately don't leak very much at all. Perhaps your seals need to be replaced?
Isn't the oil circulation system the primary selling point of the Simplex design, anyway? I mean, if they took that advantage away, wouldn't everyone just buy Centurys instead, since they're generally (IMHO) easier to thread and replace parts on than Simplexes.
Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 07-12-2002, 10:24 PM:
Scott,Speaking from a design standpoint...the Simplex is a vastly superior machine. If properly kept in oil, virtually nothing in the gear case ever needs replacing. On average, given the same level of compentency, a Simplex will out last a Century almost 10:1 in terms of part replacement.
None of this should take away from the fact that a Century _CAN_ provide excellent and long-term reliability. But if you want to look at sheer design, there isn't much comparision, Simplex is the clear winner.
As to the leaking...they CAN be made to not leak and STRONG has taken many steps towards that end (some a bit too far in my opinion). We have some that have been in service for years and not a drop comes out. Personally, I don't find it such a big deal as others seem to.
Steve
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"Old projectionists never die, they just changeover!"
Posted by Bob Koch (Member # 1062) on 07-13-2002, 12:31 AM:
Joe:
Perhaps it`s in the genes. Everything named Simplex, starting with Precision Machine Corp, thence to IPC, they all leaked oil, Regulars, Supers, E7`s and finally XL`s. Where do you think Kotex got it`s start? I think they had a chance of correcting this with the XL`s but then they got the seals from Imternational Harvester and had the castings made by the George Bernard Schwartz Porous Foundry and there you are.
Bob Koch
Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 07-13-2002, 12:34 AM:
Joe, Welcome to the world of Simplex.... 
Posted by Ken Lackner (Member # 1002) on 07-13-2002, 12:52 AM:
Ben said,"May be Simplex has a interest in the Oil Industry," to which Scott replied, "Ben--they do. The manual says "use only genuine Simplex oil." "Kinoton also recommends their own oil. I assume this is standard with any projector that uses oil. The manufacturer wants you to use their own.
I am curious, what steps has Strong taken to stop the leaks? I worked a theater with 12 Milleniums, and about half of them leaked, the other half didn't.
Posted by Josh Jones (Member # 447) on 07-13-2002, 12:57 AM:
There are many factors that determine if a machine will leak or not, everything from the projection angle, to what day it rolled off the assembly line. Some machines leak period. All of mine do, to a certain degree. If Simplex would start sealing the castings like Harleys now do, they wouldnt leak.Just my .02
Josh
Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 07-13-2002, 01:03 AM:
Yeah, Josh. That's because Harley uses rubber bands for the final drive. What they use in the Primary drive these days, I don't know. But it probably is another rubber band. When Harley used a chain on the final drive, the motorcycle was designed to piss oil all over the ground as well as your shoe. (Kept your shoes waterproof.)
Posted by Brooks M. Davies (Member # 1349) on 07-13-2002, 02:31 AM:
For my 2 cents,
We have an all strong booth and leaking oil was a problem and i had talked to simplex numerous times as these were brand new millenium editions,(we are only 3 years old now), which of course i got the run around, then after a while i tried again and talked to someone who told me that the litte window (the oil level) which is full at rest and half way during motion is a little off, he suggested that i take a litte oil out and see if that helps, he stated that this was a known problem and told me this "off the record" as he stated it.. well i tried it and it worked no more oil on the floor and all is well. surprised me though theres still plenty of oil and its been fine for bout a year now. Yes i did try to get this persons name when i called but thats when i got the "off the record" statement and was hung up on.. which was weird but it worked..so i was a happy little camper....
Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 07-13-2002, 03:21 AM:
Why would someone fear being discovered giving out a tip like that? That's like me telling you that it is easier to open a pop can tab with your thumb rather than your pinky, and then running for my life in fear of serious persecution!
Posted by Frank Angel (Member # 248) on 07-13-2002, 06:38 AM:
Joe said: >Why can't they design a Simplex that does NOT leak oil? Also, why would anyone buy a projector that leaks oil? It's defective right "out of the box!"<My XLs don't leak oil. But then they were reconditioned to "better than new" by Bruce Sanders, who in a former life WAS a Simplex XL. My 5 year old Strong/Simplex 35s don't leak oil (which would REALLY be a mess because that booth has carpet, which I hate -- it holds the dirt.) So the question is, Joe, what box are you getting these Simplexs out of?
Frank
Oh yah, and while we are talking about design.....so why can't someone design a Century that can re-rack a full four sprockets so that the word FRAME on that knob will actually do something useful?! And while we are at it, how difficult would it be to also incorporate a framing window in the Centurys?
And BTW, Bruce said exactly the same thing as Steve; he said the XL gearing is more robust and over-all mechanically, it is a very elegant design.
Face it, Simplex RULES!
Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 07-13-2002, 08:20 AM:
Oh now wait a minute...I didn't say the Simplex gear train was more robust, just a better design. The gears are actually weaker than Century's (thinner) however the actual load they are under is far less, the friction is far less...etc...that is where the longevity likes. However, deny a Simplex it's oil and the Century it's oil/grease...the Simplex will blow apart first. However, that would fall in the category of misuse and abuse. Steve
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"Old projectionists never die, they just changeover!"
Posted by Michael Rourke (Member # 1142) on 07-13-2002, 11:37 AM:
Joe, exactly where are your Simplexes leaking from? I thought you ran a Christie package booth.I run four PR1014's and they all leaked out of the Drive-in fill tube on the front of the projector but I've sealed that up with some silicone and now they are dry as a bone. One of them was leaking out of the gear compartment door on the left side where all the oil is supposed to drip back into sump. I got the old manager/projectionist to admit that he used to loosen the top nut on the door and pull back to add oil, after that the door wouldn't seat properly. I have since replaced the door and all is well.
Strong makes a seal kit for the Simplex for about a hundred bucks, if you're projectors are leaking around the sprocket shafts our out the main drive shaft you might consider purchasing the kit to stop your leaks.
Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 07-13-2002, 03:34 PM:
My Simplexes? No, these are Madstone's Simplexes. I want to disassociate myself as much as I can from the poor equipment.Simplexes rule? Even if none of them ever leaked oil, I am betting that a Kinoton would be better. Simplexes are too cramped and not exactly maitenence friendly (ie easy to work on).
Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 07-13-2002, 06:22 PM:
I think Frank should sell his Simplexes to Joe and switch to DLP. 
It's even better than 70mm on a Kinoton. George Lucas says it's better than film, so it must be true!
Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 07-14-2002, 01:35 AM:
George said that? Well then it IS true! Why should I lust after a Kinoton when I can just go down to the video store and get me a DLP for only 15 times the cost! Awesome!
Posted by Peter Kerchinsky (Member # 1098) on 07-14-2002, 05:07 AM:
To hell with the oil leaks, full speed ahead.
I think our Simplexes will out last me and probably our theatre.
Will have no other.
Doesn't take me much time to wipe up a small drip or two.
Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 07-14-2002, 05:18 AM:
Peter:ooooOOOOOOOoooooo! I second that!!!! But I would still rather have a factory spec Brenkert.
Funny thing is: We can send a man to the moon, and we can send a probe to Uranus. We can make a drill bit that can drill a hole in the drill bit that drills a hole in a human hair, and we can make a Lazer that will dissolve a hemorrhoid.
But we don't have the technology to build a oil bath projector that does not leak, or a building roof that does not leak. Odd, huh? 
Posted by Mark Hathaway (Member # 1044) on 07-14-2002, 05:34 AM:
Joe, Didn't you see the part in the catalog that mentioned "direct film injection"?
But seriously, most of the older American projectors I've had the pleasure of working on leave me wondering how sites don't end up paying for ever print that they play.
Mark Hathaway
Posted by Giorgio Volpi (Member # 1182) on 07-14-2002, 10:06 AM:
Someone of you knows an oiled machine that not leaks?
Vantages for having a projector that leaks are much more than disadvantages for some drops.
My Christies don’t leak, but I’d prefer they do!!!!Giorgio.
Posted by Michael Barry (Member # 237) on 07-15-2002, 12:03 AM:
You can always go for Kinoton 'E' series machines since they don't need oil. Can't leak it if it doesn't carry it! Seriously, our regular 'D' series Kinotons with conventional intermittents don't leak oil. Not that I'm aware of, anyway.
Posted by Dick Prather (Member # 1136) on 07-15-2002, 02:59 AM:
I don't think anything we say will help Joe's love for Simplex. I don't have much experence with the new ones but the PR-1014 and older can be made to not leak. Using the new back door gasket (P-6644)helps. All the machines I did for Pete in Seattle did not leak when they were installed. Most leaks occure when the machine is overfilled or the back door and gasket was not completely cleaned and dry when put back together. Occasionally you get a gasket go bad and a little seepege will occure. The seal kits to add more oil never worked properly for me and I don't use them. At one time you could get drip plates for SH-1000 to older Simplex projectors and could probably be modified for a XL. I think the XL is one of the finest projectors ever made and will last a long time if cared for.
Posted by John Eickhof (Member # 323) on 07-15-2002, 11:55 AM:
I agree with Dick, My XLs (# 193 & 214 - 1949) have been in service with NO leakage! I have never changed gaskets either!! The RCA 9030s they are on leak a very little but the picture heads are nice and non leaky, they run like clocks too!