Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Qualifications For Service-Techs Now Going To The Dogs?

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Posted by Will Kutler (Member # 770) on 07-17-2002, 08:29 PM:

Wellllll,

I got a real good chuckle the other day when I learned that a "projectionist" with whom I used to work has managed to get promoted to a tech position with a major theatre chain. Notice that I have "projectionist" in quotes !

Anyhow, this kid is an EXTREMELY disrespectful and immuture person with absolutely no mechanical, electricial or electronic experience. Gee whiz, with all the qualified and talented techs out there, this company just might be desperate!!

So, I could go on for quite some time about this person's antics, which would be sure to give everyon a smile!!

Nonethess, here is a goodie. One time this person wanted to time an AW-3 and approached me with an inexpensive multi-meter (vom). So this person procedes to ask me "where is the tachometer scale?" I attempted to explain to said person that this meter is used to measure electricity (voltage, amperage and resistance) and that there is no "tachometer scale". Needless to say this person thought that I was blowing smoke up his "arse" and proceeded to go into a temper tantrum reminicent of a spoiled 4 year-old child!

Shall I go on? All I can say is "AW "!

Posted by Don Sneed (Member # 955) on 07-17-2002, 11:37 PM:

If this temper tantrum kid did to me while I was trying teaching him something, I would have told him you grow up & "F" himself...which I said & done that to a projectionist before...needless to say he no longer works a booth !! I been in the theatre business for 31 years, a tech for 22 years, and still today I learn new things, via on the job, from other techs, projectionist, and here on film-tech....it is shame people like this young assholes that thinks they know everything about a booth and it's equipment because they been a projectionist for a year or less....if I had my way, a tech could not be a tech unless they had at least 3-years in the booth, a basic electronics course, and have been a projectionist on at least the 3-different type of projection equipment, I too know techs with little or no experience on all equipment, but then, when us real techs comes in & repair it correctly, that make us look good...that has happen to me many times....theatre projectionist/owners would say "our other tech could never fix that, we were told it can not be fix, to do it this way instead"...all I say is..." He was Wrong"!! Too bad Will, a company hires a untrained tech with an attitude to do a professional tech work....I know we all have to start somewhere, I hope any new soon to be techs just listen to what other people is trying to tell them to help them learn the job faster & to do a more professional job WITHOUT the attitude !!!

Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 07-18-2002, 12:18 AM:

I would probably ask him to bend over so would be easier to jam that VOM up his posterior until it comes out his mouth.

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 07-18-2002, 01:15 AM:

What an idiot! I can't believe he thought it was a tachometer when you clearly need an RTA to properly time a platter!

My guess is that he once fixed a minor problem, got ever so confident in his abilities and highly over-exaggerated himself to the company that just hired him as a tech. They'll find out soon enough how bad he is when he never seems to be able to fix stuff and instead just comes away with excuses. If you have any more gems wbout this guy, feel free to share!

Posted by Frank Angel (Member # 248) on 07-18-2002, 06:07 AM:

Give me ten inexperienced-but-eager-to-learn, respectful interns with a good work-ethic to one arrogant, self-boasting know-it-all with an "oh, I don't do that kind of work" attitude any day of the week.

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 07-18-2002, 10:52 AM:

I agree with you Frank!! You can accomplish alot more with 10 eager know nothings, than you ever could with one arrogent son of a "B".
Mark @ GTS

Posted by Justin McLeod (Member # 1329) on 07-18-2002, 03:01 PM:

I have been a projectionist for 3 years but and can do some basic work on our christie projectors but thats all i know how to and allowed to do. Cant get the tech to teach me how to do other stuff.He would rather work alone than be bothered to work with a seasoned projectionist and since our theater chain has but only one tech i can think of that travels to all our theaters,I think it would help him out if he spent time with some of the veteran projectionists in case of a chrisis

Posted by Mike Fitzgerald (Member # 1304) on 07-18-2002, 03:07 PM:

When I owned my theatres I would take a 14-15 year old anytime even with the work restrictions. They were a clean slate that you could write on and mold the work ethic

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 07-18-2002, 05:10 PM:

Justin-

Your tech is probably just fearful of losing his job if the chain sees that someone else knows something that he does. He wants to be relied upon. What are you "allowed" to do on the Christie projectors?

Posted by Tom Springer (Member # 1225) on 07-18-2002, 06:44 PM:

I am not a regular as far as posting on Film-Tech but try to read
quite often as like most Techs I can learn something everyday even
after being in this business for thirty years.

To start the young man that Will is talking about is in training to
be a Tech - He was in charge of the booth of a large (20 Screens)
complex in Tucson and did such a good job he was selected to become
a Tech. Everyone starts somewhere! It's amazing that Will negected
to mention he was fired from this same chain for being hard to get
along with.

Many of you probably know me as I have been around a long time and
know I call a spade - a spade, no BS. This young man has been working with me for two months and so far I have not seen any of
what Will is ranting about. What I have seen is an attitude of
wanting to learn which is more than for me than Will's attitude
of "I know everything already".

Next - I thought personal attacks were looked down on in this forum,
in my humble opinion give the young man a chance - we all know if he
doesn''t learn and product he won't be around long.

Thank You for reading my reply

Posted by Will Kutler (Member # 770) on 07-18-2002, 07:37 PM:

Well Well, if it ain't Mr. Tom Springer!

Before you go speaking about why I am no longer working for said company, ya better get your facts straight, Sir!!!!!

I was falsly accused of damaging equipment and terminated. I have a VERY NICE letter from the State of AZ clearing me of ANY WRONGDOING! ENOUGH SAID! Furthermore, I have never attempted to "hide" anything...in fact, I have spoken to many fellow Techers about my employment, and may have even made a post or two.

Anyhow, Tom...let me see...how many times did I fix equipment in that theater that you either failed to touch after several months...and how many times did I prevent a screen or two from going dark for several days and was able to take care of problems so that you would not have to make an emerengcy trip? In fact, said theater had a reputation at corporate level for being self-sufficient (maintenance wise)...this being largly due to my efforts! I AM VERY PROUD OF MY ACCOMPLISHMENTS AT SAID THEATRE!

Am I hard to get along with...I don't think so? First of all, I am much older than the people with whom I worked. I also come from a military and civilian background where half ass is not acceptable! Simply put, I was not willing to put up with half assed mediocrity that was common among some of my ex-coworkers!

I lost track of how many hours I put in repairing stuff(which included bring in my own personal tools) w/o getting paid?! I did a lot of stuff out of sheer pride and also hoping that my efforts would have been recognized...instead, I got screwed!

There was a period of time when I thought that this individual in question was a decent person. WRONG! One time, I actually paid this individual a compliment to a corporate executive. The executive replied in turn w/a VERY NEGATIVE comment about this individual and I felt like a first class ass!

Also let it be known that the g.m. of said theatre attempted to have this individual follow me around the booth so that I could teach this person about projector maintenance! Needless to say, this person was EXTREMELY obnixious, inmature, etc. and I will lay $$ down that very few of the experienced projectionists and techs...especially the older people...would have put up with said person's crap!

Furthermore Tom,

I have NEVER CLAIMED TO KNOW EVERYTHING...where do you get this?! I comment about things in which I haver personal experience. As a college professor of mine once said "What makes me an expert is that I have already made the mistakes!"

Posted by Will Kutler (Member # 770) on 07-18-2002, 08:17 PM:

Joe wants to hear some more gems about said person...so here goes...

On one occasion, I was working with said person. Said person neglected his 10 screens and was down in the box office w/his radio off bsing with his girlfriend...Anyhow, he failed to start one of his films and the booth was called that the film was about 20 minutes or so late. This person did not respond to his radio so I shot over to start the show. As I was threading the projector, I got radio calls about problems with two of his other screens. As I was threading the show he shot into the booth with a temper as if his late start was my fault. He stood there with his hands on his hips shootin his mouth off at me. So I told him to go tend to his other problems while I started his show. Needless to say he went bezerke with a temper...tried to start a fist fight with me in the booth and started kicking film cans around....

This person had been an employee of said chain longer than I and supposedely had more experience than yours truly...that is why they asked me to train him (from scratch) on how to change and focus a xenon bulb. So, to cover myself, I made up a training (task oriented) cirriculum that we would both initial certifying that training was given and that the trainee was competitent in the task. Needless to say, this person did not like my methods, did not want to be a student...etc, etc and threw a temper tantrum! Basically, he wanted me to teach him per his dictates. He showed absolutely no respect, so I simply did not train him! I was later spoken to by the g.m. for being too strict and not p.c.!

I can go on....

Posted by Don Sneed (Member # 955) on 07-18-2002, 08:43 PM:

Hey Will, this is getting good !! How old is the said temper tantrum, want-a-be-tech, employee in question ??? inquiring minds wants to know !!

Posted by Tom Springer (Member # 1225) on 07-18-2002, 10:16 PM:

Things must be bad when a kid gets into a
training program and gets bashed for it.

Again to state a fact -- in two months time
there have been no problems and the young man
is doing better than others I have seen before.

Posted by Bob Koch (Member # 1062) on 07-18-2002, 11:55 PM:

Yhis is really getting good. Century{Syufy} employing technicians and I say this in jest. Anyone worth his salt,and confident of his ability, would not subject themselves to the humiliation of being employed by this outfit.They have been a cancer on the face of technological advancements for at least 60 years. Since the days of Bill and Pauline and their darling son; Raymond J. they have spent all their time attempting to invest various dullards with capabilities they do not possess and telling themselves they have, at last,found the answer to hiring projection and sound engineers. Then they would go to sleep at nite and try to dream that it really happened. The more I read these posts I really wonder just how little it would take to get by out there. Maybe I`ll unretire.

Posted by Barry Hans (Member # 477) on 07-19-2002, 12:26 AM:

IMHO, this type of thread has no place being in this forum.

When we start attacking individuals it's bad.

Posted by Justin McLeod (Member # 1329) on 07-19-2002, 12:42 AM:

Joe, The work I can currently do on the Christie projector are; retiming the shutter blade and changing the belt( i need to know how to change out the other belts aswell),Change out the gate bands and completly take apart the basic parts of the aperture and reassemble (I have to clean those things whenever i can), Change out the Bulb igniter,and change out the bulbs. I cant do anything with our christies where you have to auto focus the bulb. I need a little guidence in that dept to.I also need a good understanding of the electrical part of the Christie projector.

What i really need to know are our platter systems,(ours are the christie type),A and B chain training (I do B-chain alignments on home systems so i am very familiar with reading SPL meters). I need instrument training used for setting Up the A and B chain.

Posted by John Eickhof (Member # 323) on 07-19-2002, 01:29 AM:

Hey Kookie!! (Bob Koch) It's nice to see you post on the forum!! It's been many years since I have seen you! I still visit with Guy when I am in california! Email me..we can catch up on old times!! Hey Tom! I have not talked with you in years either!! I still see Jim Gillespie
occaisionally... email me!

John

------------------
John Eickhof President, Chief Slave
Northwest Theatre Equipment Co., Inc.
P.O.Box 258
Wendell, ID. 83355-0258
208-536-5489
email: jeickhof@nteequip.com

Posted by Manuel Francisco Valencia (Member # 710) on 07-19-2002, 04:32 AM:

Justin

Which theatre do you work for? I have Christies at my theatre and have performed a number of repairs to them. I am also lucky enough to have a tech that is eager in training me so I can show you a little bit more than usual.

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 07-19-2002, 09:22 AM:

The day you stop to learn you die is the best motto for any one experienced or not in this and all industries.
As for bashing someone this probably isn't the place for that

Posted by John Walsh (Member # 168) on 07-19-2002, 09:25 AM:

Yes, I agree with Barry; Please let's not attack individuals, especally here (Film-Tech.) We know there will always be people who are not that good, yet will still be promoted. Just like there will always be good people who will be let go, because they tried to improve the quality of their work and pissed off someone.

A problem this industry has is it will not pay a good rate for regular operators, so we are forced to hire inexperienced younger people. This is not altogether bad, it's just that some people you hire may still be immature. This is the way it is, and if you do not account for this in your training, or your day-to-day interaction with them, YOU are wrong.

Now, I don't know anyone involved in this topic, but I know some techs are hired just because they are avaiable at night for emergency service. Most booth problems are fairly easily fixed (usually operator error) so paying a younger, inexperienced person might make sense for some outfits.

Posted by Frank Angel (Member # 248) on 07-19-2002, 09:49 AM:

Yeah,but guys, you gotta admit, it WAS getting juicy!

Posted by Justin McLeod (Member # 1329) on 07-20-2002, 01:38 AM:

Manuel,

I work at the spotlight 14 in Norman oklahoma. My theater is owned by Wallace theaters.

Its hard to explain why my manager wont talk to the tech and get him to spend some time with the willing projectionists to help keep things working better. When im with my tech and my manager at the same time, it all the sudden seems like "I" dont know what im talking about but they do. I do know that i would not benefit payrole wise from anymore training or tech work in my booth. I will still get paid the same as the regular employees. The only thing i would gain is knowledge and that means more to me at this point than money. We have problems with some our stereo systems sound i would like to solve but have no way of doing so. Our tech is kind of hard to get along with unless your on his level ( only my opinion though ).

What kind of stuff can you show me?( online ofcoarse)

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 07-20-2002, 12:08 PM:

"We have problems with some our stereo systems sound i would like to solve but have no way of doing so"
Without the test equipment and films and a lot of experience the odds are you will probably make it worse

Posted by Greg Pauley (Member # 503) on 07-20-2002, 01:08 PM:

I started in the business 28 years ago whenever I was 17 years old and didn't know much more than the young people who are starting in the industry today. I was fortunate enough to have been working with a bunch of older guys who taught me the correct way of doing things and would slap me up side my head whenever I did something wrong. I doubt there are too many of us who can say we "knew it all' at a young age or never made a mistake whenever we were first getting in the business. Most of the older guys are gone now who helped me, but I still remember the time I hooked up a surround speaker to the control wire for the curtain. "I got rode for years for that one". I did have a beautiful young lady waiting on me at the bottom of the ladder, which was always my excuse. One thing that is missing today with a lot of theatres is what we now call "Film Done Right" we use to call "Showmanship" in the industry. The fact that films are not being projected with the idea of perfection, but rather the fact the bulb is lit, and the sound is on, is good enough for some. I train a lot of young people today and try to pass on the knowledge I have, some have gone on to work in the industry and some was just looking to get by with doing as little as possible. There are a lot of very bright young people starting in our industry today who just want to learn and haven't been trained properly. IMHO

Posted by Will Kutler (Member # 770) on 07-20-2002, 05:09 PM:

I will say this, Century Theatres is A VERY POLITICAL company to work for!!

Just about everything that I repaired in that booth were things that needing fixing and adversely effected the quality of presentation.

At this theater where I worked, management always had their tails between there legs for political reasons! Trying to get permission to repair what needed fixing was like pulling teeth! I probably made myself unpopular because of my persistance and attuted of screw politics...just do it! After all, customers pay handsomly at this theater (ticket prices and concession)...so don't they deserve quality! Nontheless, everytime I completed a necessary repair, management was happy because presentation quality improved and the g.m. and salaried managers looked good...plus they took the credit for my achievements!

Anyhow, many of the things that I took the initiative to do should have been done by Mr. Springer! Get the picture!!

Mr. Springer claims that I have an attitude that I "know everything already." I wonder where he gets this info?!! I have already stated elsewhere in F.T. my years of mechanical background...so I brought quite a bit of experience into the booth with me. However, that never prevented me from using and relying on tech. manuals! Furthermore, Bevan Wright will probably attest to the fact that I relied on him more than once for tech advice ! Yes, I have quite often bashed on the Christie projector, but on the other hand, Bevan has always been there to lend advice and help...thanks Bevan !!!! I have learned through experience...which includes a positive attitude towards ones teachers...which is definately not the case with Mr. Springer's protoge!

BTW...John E.!

Jim Gillespie is one hell of a great guy!!!! Norm Lauderback put me onto his trail some time ago while I was in pursuit of my E-7 restoration! Jim has been a wonderful teacher...I spoke with him last week and he is finally moving to Oregon and will hopefully be sending out new business cards soon. I wish that he would participate on F.T. because he would have much positive advice to add!!! One hell of a great person...name of his company is Projection Service Company, Inc...

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 07-21-2002, 04:37 AM:

Tom, I noticed this is only your second post, but please do take extra special note of the final paragraph in the FAQ document. It states very clearly not to attack "another forum member". This tech you two are speaking of is not a member, and as such Will did not break any rule or policy of this website. I am glad to hear you can vouch for the new tech's desire to learn and qualifications, but the attack on fellow forum member Will is not permitted here. Since you attacked Will directly with your post, his attack back on you looks to me like plain old fashioned retaliation to defend himself. I am not going to say who is right or wrong here (because I don't know and it isn't my business) and I know it seems like a cut and dry moderation on my part, but I have to draw the line somewhere and I hope you can see where I am coming from.

That being said, let's all play happy and refrain from speaking about that specific situation so other people with related input to the topic can post. Thanks.

Posted by Tom Springer (Member # 1225) on 07-21-2002, 08:37 PM:

Brad,
I purposely did not attack Will as I didn't see any reason to do
so but you have really raised my dander - I don't see any relation
to my posting 2 times or 2000 times. As for Will I just stated a
fact that Will was fired from the theatre(he can dispute the reason
if he wants to) and thats a fact. The young man he is bashing( and now he is bashing me) is a nice young man and my company asked me
to let him train with me for a few months - it is not mandatory for
me to do this. Will's opinion of me is not of great importance to
me but the opinion of some of your readers is important to me. I
guess I am like most Techs in this business and think I have a good
knowledge and do a good job for my employer regardless of Will's
opinion. If we would like to continue this I will go into specfics
and have other people write other opinions of my job qualifications
and performance. I still believe Will made a unjustified attack on
someone because he is jealous or anouther reason I'm not smart enough
to figure out. I have talked to people at the theatre and do have
enough information to dispute Will's statement, plus my own personal
experience with BOTH persons. I nor the young man in question, say that he is ready to service theatres by himself but everyday I hear
him say "I learned a lot today" and putting someone down for trying
to progess is not in my book of necessities. I hear in your statement
(Brad) that because I only posted twice I should let this all go (which I would have done until Will's latest post) and I don't think
it is right to do so.

Again I am thankful for you all reading my opinion

Tom Springer

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 07-21-2002, 10:03 PM:

Ok here we go again.

Tom I am going to let your last post stand, as to be fair, Will got one extra post in when this issue started between the two of you. However I have been working out of town for the last few days and have not been able to keep up with everything being posted. For that matter, I can not possibly be expected to read every single post in every single thread to try and catch disputes like this, so in the future please drop me an email if it seems something is about to turn or is turning sour to alert me to it.

If anyone would like to continue this discussion, please do so. I will however ask Will and Tom to both NOT post any further on this particular thread (feel free to post on any other topic though). Obviously whatever happened in the past is bringing about something that does not belong here. Please use your private emails for that. I appreciate the understanding.

Posted by Richard Hamilton (Member # 321) on 07-21-2002, 10:13 PM:

"Wellllll,

These are my thoughts... anytime any willing, young eager projectionist approaches me...Screw them..."Job Security"

From what I've read, if he was disrespectful of you...you deserve it!!

Posted by Scott Manley (Member # 867) on 07-21-2002, 10:37 PM:

This is to Justin........I service several theaters here in TX....and I always make time for anyone interested in learning...I certainly don't know your situation....but all I can say is keep trying to learn....after about 23 yrs working in this business....that's my motto.

Scott

Posted by Manuel Francisco Valencia (Member # 710) on 07-22-2002, 04:09 PM:

Justin

Gordon was right about your sound issues. You may know all there is to know about your processors, amps, readers and such but without the proper equipment you are up creek without a paddle.
How often does your tech come to your theatre? How often do you have a projector down? Do you know what he is doing when he is there? Try and explain to your GM that if you are not well trained than you can not be held 100% accountable for the problems in your booth. The more you know then the better your booth will be. If he doesn't listen when you tell him this then he does not care about presentation. And if that is the case you can come work for me!

Posted by Will Kutler (Member # 770) on 07-23-2002, 07:55 PM:

Post deleted by moderator.

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 07-23-2002, 08:01 PM:

Will, I asked both you and Tom nicely to not post any further on this thread. As a result, I have deleted this post of yours and am pulling your posting privileges for 1 week so whatever this anger is between the two of you can cool off. If I forget to turn you back on next Tuesday, email me a reminder. You are just as much of an asset as Tom and any other member on these forums, but I am not going to tolerate one member attacking another...and no, I did not bother to read your post past the first few sentences where it was clear you were going to be back into the argument with Tom.