This is topic What Projectors do you Like? in forum Film Handlers' Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.
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Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 08-17-2002, 01:06 PM:
I like:
-Century JJ and SA
-Christie P35GPS (after recent Christie impovements)I have not had the fortune to work with but I can pretty much guarantee I'd like:
-Kinoton (current series)
I can somewhat tolerate but they have serious design flaws:
-Simplex (current models; bad sound drum design with the rubber PTR-thingy, it leaks oil which is always mega-lame, and it is a bit cramped and can be a pain to work on)
-Cinemeccanica (easy to thread and great in concept, but lousy registration)
I do not like:
-Brenkert (Sue me. I just don't like 'em. If you want to emulate the Brenkert experience, open up a can of oil and dump it onto the floor. They are also cramped and I do not like the soundhead design)
-Norelco (Sue me again. I've only threaded one of these two or three times, but it is a pain in the ass. Also there is NO REASON for them to be so huge!)
I have not worked with but know I would hate:
-Ballantyne
-Christie's funky new PG35GPS that has not been released
Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 08-17-2002, 01:13 PM:
Joe, there is nothing like an "Evening with the Brenkerts"...you are missing sooooo much! 
Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 08-17-2002, 01:18 PM:
I knew you'd reply Paul, and I am now waiting for Josh. 
Of course it is always possible that the ones I have used did not receive the proper TLC.
Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 08-17-2002, 01:33 PM:
One more time with feeling since I am sure this is a often repeated thread
I worked with and like
Westrex 5000
Norelco AA2
Norelco DP75
FP20-**
Ernamann 12 and 15
Ernamann 8B
Motiograph AAA
Ballantyne Pro35
Most of the cinemecanica I Don Not like
Brenkert (s) Leak oil a bitch to repair
Motiograph K's
Wassman
FPSuper7's
GK21's
Bauers
Christie's
Super Simplex
Projectors I think I would like but haven't used
Westrex7000
Aga Baltic
Projectors I haven't used but know I would hate
BTH Supra's
MegasSystems
Posted by Aaron Sisemore (Member # 145) on 08-17-2002, 02:23 PM:
Lumping 35 and 35/70 machines as one category:Machines I have worked with and like
Century SA/MSA/DA
Century H/HH STRAIGHT GATE
Simplex XL/1015/1050 with and without turrets
Simplex E-7
Brenkert BX-60
Brenkert BX-80
Motiograph AAA
Machines I have seen in operation but never used that I would like:
Norelco AAII/DP70
Norelco/Kinoton DP75
Century JJ
Any of the newer Kinoton machines
Ernemann
CFS Dreamcatcher prototype version
IMAX
MegaSystems 15/70
Westar
Machines I have seen/seen operating but I probably wouldn't like:
Any model Christie
CFS Dreamcatcher production version
Machines I have worked with that I cannot stand:
Cinecita SA
Monee MSP
Cinemeccanica Victoria 8
Super Simplex
Century H/HH CURVED GATE
Norelco FP20
The jury is still out:
Ballantyne Pro-35
Tokiwa TSR
-Aaron
Posted by Ian Price (Member # 14) on 08-17-2002, 02:42 PM:
Projectors I have worked with and like:
Strong/Simplex XL and newer (Familiarity breeds complacency.)
Christie P35G
Ballantyne Pro35/70 (As a 70mm machine only!)Projectors I would have loved 50 years ago:
Brenkerts BX60 (Their time has passed)
Projectors I can live with but don't love:
Century (The entire group)(They work very well)
Projectors that belong in a museum:
Norelco AAII (I mean they should be running in a museum)
Projectors that I covet:
Kinoton FP60D
Bastard Projector:
Strong/Simplex 35/70 (They couldn't even get the gate to soundhead distance correct!) 
The Projector that I hate:
Ballantyne Pro35/70 (In 35mm configuration)
Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 08-17-2002, 04:11 PM:
Hey, guys....The Pro-35 is getting a bad rap. I have to admit I never was really fond of them - until I started running and maintaining them. I have gained a tremendous respect for them now, and they would be on the top of my list for liking them. Gordon, the Motiographs are nice machines, but I never liked the sound of them. The movement sounds like someone wiping their butt with a corn cob.
Posted by Chase Taylor (Member # 778) on 08-17-2002, 10:25 PM:
I have not worked with but know I would hate:
DLP
Posted by Dave Williams (Member # 299) on 08-18-2002, 12:12 AM:
I have worked with many, but prefer the Simplex XL, circa 1950 to 1970. They still run, and do so like tanks. Thats all folks.
Dave
Posted by Josh Jones (Member # 447) on 08-18-2002, 12:50 AM:
Joe, the Brenkerts are much roomier that the XL's you dispise so much They dont leak an unreasonable amount of oil, and I dont find them that hard to work on. Besides, when was the last time one of these machines did need something done to it? they just keep running, and running.
In the mean time, I have to keep a Simplex 35/70 running(and you guys are bitching about the regular XL being cramped!)
Josh
Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 08-18-2002, 01:20 AM:
I like...
*Century JJ and SA (Hands down the best projector design of all I have worked with)
*Cinemecannica V5 (Is it possible for these machines to be any easier on the film? I think not.)
*Christie gearless (after improvements)Projectors I have not worked with yet, but have a strong feeling I would fall in love with...
*Kinoton's current line
Projectors I have not worked with enough to make a decision on...
*Cinemecannica V8
*Cinemecannica V10
Projectors I have not worked with, but am fairly positive I will not like...
*Brenkert
*Ernemann
Projectors I do not like...
*Simplex (all models - no exceptions until they fix the soundhead design)
*Ballantyne PRO 35
*Cinecita
*Monee
*Norelco AA2/DP70 (like Joe said "sue me"! I used to have one of these beasts in my screening room and dearly hated the damn thing. I could write an essay on all the stupid things about this machine. The only part I liked about it was how it handled 70mm film. Everything else is a joke. I have no idea why people love this machine so much.)
*...and finally, any projector not still in production. That right there really does say something. If the design was so wonderful, they would still be in production today.
Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 08-18-2002, 02:11 AM:
Someone once mentioned to me a long time ago the reason why Brenkert went out of production was because they were built TOO GOOD! Brenkert was not "part happy" like some other manufacturers. When everyone who could afford a Brenkert got theirs, Brenkert could not sell any parts because they never wore out. It is a machine that stayed happy as long as you kept oil in it. They were, for many years, a projector of choice in 3rd and 4th run houses. You could run just about anything through that machine from stick pins to staples, and it would not jump out of frame.
If you guys had some factory spec brand new Brenkerts, you would love them. True, they can be a bitch to work on, but that hardly ever happened until the machine finally reached the age of 40 years or so. Most of those problems were because of snagged shutters due to arc-lamp heat warping, or someone ran the damned thing out of oil.
I have to say I had 4 Brenkert BX-60's at the old Circus Drive-in in Anacortes. None of them leaked oil because we had orginal Brenkert Gaskets instead of that cheap shit made today. At the Station Theater at NAS Whidbey, we had 2 BX-80's before the USN converted to 16mm. The left machine never leaked oil, but the right one did because of a screwed up pump cover gasket.
Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 08-18-2002, 09:24 AM:
I have worked with and like:Century C/SA/JJ
Simplex X-L/PR-1014
I have worked with and have mixed feelings about:
Cinemeccanica V5
I have not worked with but think I would like:
Kinoton (current models)
I have not worked with but think I would not like:
Christie gearless
I have not worked with but would like to someday:
Norelco AA-II
Posted by Bernard Tonks (Member # 809) on 08-18-2002, 09:53 AM:
I Like:Westar 2001s. They were running in my cinema for 32 years without a single mechanical failure. They were as good as new when I sold them with reconditioned intermittent assemblies.
The very best Westar 2001 specials I worked with was in London, being the water cooled gates and rear double shutters model.
I also liked:
The Philips DP70, for the experience of running 70mm.
Philips (Kineton) FP 20s.
I would like to work on any good new projector, including the newer Christie, but there are no Christie installations in the UK I believe.
I have enjoyed working on most projectors during my other freelance days, with the exception of certain features e.g. aperture plate changing method etc.
BTH model KB, I thought was their best.
BTH Mk 1 & 2 Supa’s.
Kalee 7, 20, 21, 37s.
RCA.
Ross GC3.
Super Simplex.
Posted by Bernie Anderson Jr (Member # 410) on 08-18-2002, 01:49 PM:
I have to defend my Brenkerts and Super Simplexs. I will put my 70 year old super up to any other projector and get as steady as a picture as your XLs. And the Brenkert was a damn tank. We used them at the drive in and never had a problem with them They would fire up every season with out an ounce of problems. Oil leaks? How can you say that about Brenkerts, Damn XLs leak just as much. That's part of being an XL owner. I like XLs and probably would use one if I had the height in the basement, but again, a positive towards the super, they're about 5 inches small than all the other projectors, so it allows me to build up on a core to about an hour and a half of film per change over. I like the Century SA series, seem a little too wimpy in the gear box for me though, there's nothing really to them. But they work very well. HATE the H head. Everyone I know of has focus problems. HATE HATE HATE that bad excuse called a Simplex 1060. How dare they call that a Simplex! Stupid gate design and just a cheaply made projector. The only XL worth a damn were the ones made from 1947-48 to probably the late 60's which where either Bloomfield NJ made or Pleasantville NY models and the 1014. The 1003 is probably my favorite XL. The Simplex E7 are nice machines which improved upon the super for lubricating the machine, but badly designe shutter assembly. It's funny they actually went back to the shutter design that the supers had later on.
Posted by Jeff Stricker (Member # 224) on 08-18-2002, 02:35 PM:
These 1940 Brenkert BX-40's of mine don't leak a drop. That's more than I can say for the Simplex soundheads they're bolted to... 
Posted by Mike Fitzgerald (Member # 1304) on 08-18-2002, 04:00 PM:
I have always liked the Bauer U2 projector. ------------------
Fitz
Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 08-18-2002, 04:46 PM:
OK - for your Pro-35 haters.....Here is a picture of a new Pro-35 that is ready for a shipping crate: 
I drolled over this machine....
Thanks to Rick and John at Strong International for allowing me to take this picture.
Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 08-18-2002, 04:48 PM:
It is a thing of beauty
Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 08-18-2002, 04:52 PM:
....and craftsmanship to match.
Posted by Pete Naples (Member # 761) on 08-18-2002, 05:26 PM:
I hadn't had any dealing with the Pro35 until I went to Spain to commission a pair on a 3D theme park attraction. They are specials with a micrometer adjustable lens mount to ensure the two pictures are in perfect registration without distortion. They are ideal for this application as they seem to need little maintenance (just clean it and look after the oil), also the electronics interfaced oh so easily with the rest of the show. Overall I was somewhat impressed.
Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 08-18-2002, 05:31 PM:
Pete, it is my understanding that the Pro-35's are the preferred machines in Theme Parks, probably for the reason you mentioned.I have heard also that the PRO-35 was selected for these applications through testing. Supposedly, they put various makes of projectors a big paint shaker and shook the shit out of them, and the PRO-35's are the only ones that could stand up to the beating.
For years, I understand they were also the projector of choice for product reel running at the Sho-West lunch and dinner gatherings.
Posted by Bernie Anderson Jr (Member # 410) on 08-18-2002, 07:19 PM:
Who makes the Pro-35? It's a slick little projector.Bernie
Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 08-18-2002, 07:31 PM:
All you Ballantyne lovers can thank Ed Nelson years ago for stealing alot of the Phillips/Norelco ideas, and others of the past. The intermittent/framer mechanism(FP-20), the verticle shaft(FP7), the intermittent itself(Brenkert as per Ed Nelson's request, according to Norm at LaVezzi), The rest of the machcine, courtesy of Rube Goldberg.
I don't recall seeing Ballantynes in the Strong Price list lately....
Mark
Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 08-18-2002, 07:40 PM:
I've worked with and really like:
Norelco DP-70
Norelco FP-20
Simplex E-7
Simplex Series of X-L's
Century C
Century H
Century SA
Century JJ
Century VistaVision
Brenkert, All Models
Motiograph AA, AAA
Iwerks Linear LoopMACHINES I'VE WORKED WITH AND HATE
Christie, All models
Super Simplex
Standard Simplex These two do belong in a Museum...on display!
Motiograph K
Ballantyne Pro 35, way too many seals and "O" Rings!
Prevost P93
Cinecitta, All
Westar, All
Machines I would never ever consider using:
Megasystems
Cinecitta
Westar
Machines I plan on using on upcomming jobs Some day soon:
Kinoton
Norelco DP-70
Iwerks Linear Loop
Mark
Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 08-18-2002, 08:15 PM:
Bernie, they are slick, but they sure as hell aren't little. Notice Josh's arm is resting on the entire width of the machine, almost up to his elbow. And, they are very heavy. Strong International/Ballentyne of Omaha builds them. Mark, I understand they are a special order item these days.
Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 08-18-2002, 08:40 PM:
Actually they are basically a DP75
Posted by Richard Fowler (Member # 893) on 08-18-2002, 08:41 PM:
Ballentyne for a short while was the importer of Phillips machines so they had plenty of time to study in house. The story goes that Disney WED Engineering desired to use Phillips products in an attraction but company policy at the time was to buy USA products first which was solved by Ballentyne's input. Many of the mechanisms which the parks used where Simplex XL's in the 1970's when I was servicing parks. Busch Gardens in Tampa had a show in 1976 with Eprad Sword forward / reverse machines and Century heads which operated, in addition with 9 slide ( German Kodak Ektagraphic ) projectors which was a bear to keep in shape...fun filing aperture plates with no masking edge.
Ed Nelson, according to a lecture at a TEA conference in Palm Beach, Florida talked of the "then new" Ballentyne Pro-35 and the fact that he also worked with the designers of the Simplex XL.
Richard Fowler
TVP-Theatre & Video Products Inc. www.tvpmiami.com
Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 08-18-2002, 09:00 PM:
Ballantyne also built many of the Norelco machines with things like the intermitent gearbox for the FP20 and the main casing for the 75 and the main frame for the 70 and they built the lamphouse beam and colums and did the casting for many of them so Ed had lots of time to study it
Always odd that they never built it as a intigrated soundhead since the Pro35 did work with a lot of other soundheads that didn't like being driven from the projector
Posted by Bernie Anderson Jr (Member # 410) on 08-18-2002, 09:30 PM:
Now tell me why you Super Simplex haters hate the Super but love the E7? The gear integrity is much better in the Super. You can beat the hell out of them and they'll still run.
Posted by Richard Hamilton (Member # 321) on 08-18-2002, 09:46 PM:
hey Mark,
I'm just curious,....why the Megasystems hatred???Rick
Posted by Richard Fowler (Member # 893) on 08-18-2002, 11:03 PM:
Supers can be a pain if they have been through a bad rebuild job with a selection of standard and O.S. parts ( parts to fit the resized bearings in the center frame ) and the upper sprocket gear always seem to have a broken head on the set screw....E-7 where a piece of cake to fix, but the last parts I have sold for these units in 18 years has been a G-87 which I had to wait two weeks for delivery last year.
Richard Fowler
TVP-Theatre & Video Products Inc. www.tvpmiami.com
Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 08-18-2002, 11:59 PM:
Richard,
I'll let you re-phrase that question since both Gord and I had it on our lists..........
So now for the re-phrased question............I am also curious why you think its hatred? I didn't see you listed in my Hate to use list.....
My answer is that it is unnecesarily complex, too expensive, too many belts, and dual intermittents are really unnecessary for 8/70. The Ballantyne 8/70 represents the best bang for the buck, many used heads are available too.
The Iwerks Linear Loop is best bang for the buck in New 8/70 machines, is extremely simple to operate, very small, simple to work on, is pin regesterd, and has 5 to 1(high Speed) pull down resulting in alot more light on the screen, the trade off being a bit more operating noise.
Mark
Posted by Jason Burroughs (Member # 68) on 08-19-2002, 01:23 AM:
Projectors that I have worked with, and liked:Century SA & JJ
Christie (never had TOO many problems with them)
Projectors that I have worked with and think they're OK, at best:
Simplex XL, Simplex Millineum
Cinemaccanica V5 (I would like to try the new curved gates though)
Projectors that belong at the bottom of a lake:
Cinemacccanica V8
Brad, I have a V8 that you can work on, if you feel the need some day
One thing I have to say about the Cinamaccanicas, Pray to the projector gods that you don't have to time the shutters, you have to just about disassemble the projector AND lamphouse to do it, the V5 is easier than the V8 though. To be fair against the ones I've worked with they have around 20+ years of neglect on them.
Oh, and if you talk with Cinemaccanica customer service, don't expect a response back from them.
Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 08-19-2002, 02:15 AM:
One nice thing about the Cinemashakia.....There is no scanner drum for the film to come in contact with. Just the edges of a big Yo Yo. I remember the Vic-4 being that way, but I am not familiar with the rest of those damn things. The only VIC's that I ran was in 1972-1973. I didn't really like them. The only ones I worked on was about 20 years ago in a Marcus house in Wausau, Wisconsin. I was even less impressed by them since I had to work on them.
When I walked away from Regal in the mid-90's, AMC needed a local tech. I turned it down because their booths in the area was full of those funky linear potentiometer-pay-out head ORC platters, and you guessed it - VICS! I said, "No, thanks!", but I appreciated the offer. I didn't need the job anyway.
Posted by Pete Naples (Member # 761) on 08-19-2002, 02:23 AM:
Mark what's so bad about the Westar? It's just a Century with a couple of modifications, indeed some may argue improvements! I agree some of the cheap made copies are utter crap, but certainly the UK made Westar is very bit as good and in some ways better than the original Century design. I've no direct experience of the current machine that's badged Westar, but as far as I can see it's just that, badged, not really what we'd call a Westar here.
Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 08-19-2002, 02:47 AM:
Pete, the biggest problems I have encountered with some of the Century knock-off's is parts availability, and the second problem is poor quality casting techniques. I am speaking of the Cinecita. However, I have 2 Cinecita machines in operation. The problem is, when something goes wrong with them, it is almost impossible to get sound head parts for them. I have a bad sound lateral guide in one of them, and I cannot get the correct parts! Even the parts coming from Bombay won't fit! The ORC knock off? What a joke. I think they are Cinecita under the ORC name. There was six of those in one of our theatres. Only one is running. The rest were junked because they were junk in the first place. Parts to fit them were just too expensive and hard to get, and when we got them, they didn't fit. The junker ORC's are the food chain needed to keep the other one running.
I replaced 5 out of 6 with Pro-35's that were removed from another theatre. When I did that, the projector/soundhead breakdown repair calls dropped next to ZERO!
I cannot speak for the Westar, but I have a dead one laying around. It makes a good door stop, and the only thing I do was trip over it when I walk into the back room. I don't know where it came from, but it must be there for a reason. Maybe it is parts availibility since it is stripped to the bone. The next step is the dumpster when I get tired of tripping over it.
Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 08-19-2002, 01:40 PM:
Pete,
I am thinking of the Indian Westar machine, not the one you have been using. There are still many older Westar/Westrex machine running in the mountain states. Even the stinking bage on the Indian clone is cheap!Richard Hamilton:
Still waiting for your re-phraseology on that question above???????
Mark
Posted by Gracia L. Babbidge (Member # 582) on 08-19-2002, 02:21 PM:
I haven't worked with a wide variety of machines ...I have worked with:
Christie P35GP - liked those alright
*Christie P35C - they work fine for me, usually
Century SA - didn't much care for them
*Century JJ2 - guess I just don't care for gear-driven machines - messy! 
... but they work, which is what really counts
* - denote types of machines in the booth I work in now
~the Violatrix 
------------------
In some cultures, what I do is considered normal.
Posted by Michael Schaffer (Member # 1204) on 08-19-2002, 02:23 PM:
I have worked with Kinoton projectors most of the time, especially FP-30D and FP-30E, also with older models such as FP-20 from the Philips era and some others like FP-38E (16/35mm) and FP-75E (35/70mm).
They are all quite easy to handle and to maintain and troubleshoot.
Image quality and reliabiltiy are also really good with most machines. There are a few problems too, especially the lens turrets are a major problem and so are the mask changers. They get stuck quite often.
There are also the Chekh projectors Meo 5XB, which may not be the best machines around, but they are very sturdy workhorses.
I also know and don`t like Christe projectors and Ernemann 15 and Cinemecchanica.
In addition to that, I gathered some experience on classic projectors such as Ernemann VIIB and some of the Bauer machines. They are all very good projectors and are still running nicely after many decades.
Apart from Christe, I don`t know any American projectors.
Michael
Posted by Stephen Jones (Member # 16) on 08-25-2002, 03:23 AM:
Favourite projectors are of course Kinoton also Bauer U3,U4,B11 and Cinemecanica V8 and Centrex which is a Australian copy of Century made by Westrex here in Australia in the 50s but not sure of the exact date they were made could have been earlier, there are still a few about running film.
Posted by Steve Kraus (Member # 476) on 08-25-2002, 10:42 AM:
Discussion is invited as to why it's the Century that seems to inspire the most licensed imitations & knock-offs.
Posted by Fred Georges (Member # 505) on 08-25-2002, 11:07 AM:
Dear Steve, Century, Probably, was one of the few manufacturers willing to license and I'm sure, the prospective licensee's were drawn to the projectors inherent simplicity and ruggedness. I have a beautiful (non-leaking)high speed XL and various Century's for portable work. Unless I have an absolute need of the XL's high speed pulldown (Outdoor work)I find myself always grabbing my trusty Century DBW's. I've come to trust them more under less than ideal conditions.
Posted by Richard Fowler (Member # 893) on 08-25-2002, 12:23 PM:
The parent company of Century, outside of their association with Westrex export corporation did not maintain international patent protection in the early 1950's which allowed the spawning of numberous clones in India, Peru, Canada, England, India , Pakistan, Australia, Mexico...some under license and others not. Tarriffs then and now in some countries it made sense to build locally...some of the countries we sell to involve import taxes varing from 1.5 to 100% of the item; with some giving tax relief if local labor is factored in the end product.....I have already seen a clone of the Christie projector in my travels 
Richard Fowler
TVP-Theatre & Video Products Inc www.tvpmiami.com
Posted by Steve Kraus (Member # 476) on 08-25-2002, 05:33 PM:
Richard said:
>I have already seen a clone of the Christie projector in my travelsBoy did they ever hitch themselves to a star! No, I take that back. In general this is probably is the way to design a modern (non-servo) machine. One piece design starting with a substantial plate, a few timing belt driven shafts through it. But give it a full sized shutter and steal somebody else's soundhead design. It could be great. Timing belts won't last the way a gear drive will but they're inexpensive and reliable if replaced periodically.
Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 08-25-2002, 09:54 PM:
What's the supposed advantage of a belt-drive machine, anyway? Is it just that it's easier to replace broken belts than stripped gears?The only belt-drive machines that I've worked with are V-5s, which are not my favorites, although I agree with others that they are very gentle on film. I'd like to see one with the curved-gate modifcation someday.
Posted by Bill Gabel (Member # 1105) on 05-13-2003, 01:34 PM:
bump
Posted by Joe Morris (Member # 1553) on 05-13-2003, 03:05 PM:
The only projectors that I've had the pleasure to use are the Monee Universal MSP. They're not much different from a Century JJ, except for the projector is all one unit. I would have to say that I really like my Monee's, except when they break, parts are really fun to find...unless of course, you're in Omaha right next to the guys that made the original from which it's copied... ![[thumbsup]](graemlins/thumbsup.gif)
Posted by Elvis Navas (Member # 1676) on 05-13-2003, 03:36 PM:
I like:
Microtecnica Export ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
Simplex
Prevost P60
![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
I do not like:
Christie
Posted by Per Hauberg (Member # 529) on 05-13-2003, 05:58 PM:
Like them (or more than...)
Philips:
DP70 - adore it ! Old-fashioned, Yeah - me too, -and i'm not asking for anything automation-friendly. I've got the time to stay there, as i learned to as a kid. 70mm runs softer than in any projector, i know, and 35 is pure relax to projector, never getting worn this way. Salesman told me in 1974: For Your use, these are a true lifetime investment. Not planning to step down, i'm beginning to think, he was right.
Bauer:
U2 - Really nice and solid as a DP70 - but a pain in the ass, when something for once went wrong: Spring holders in penthouse almost made me run away screaming, and no matter, what You need to replace, You'll have to tear the whole projector into pieces.
Format chance 35/70 a pain, too. On bigger screen than those 25 feet, i had made them hit, rumours talk about unsteadyness -but i have never seen so.
B 5, B 11, B 14 - All really fine - Not possible to wear out. and that's why Bauer had to close, i guess. Noone needed to buy new projectors once these were installed ! Others, as oldfashioned as myself praise the B12 as the best of 35mm's at all. -I saw them, but never tried.
Westrex Westar: Helped someone running a few moths once. No problems ever. 40 feet scope, rock steady. Penthouse was there, but not in use since Around the World - first film in machines.
--------------------------------------------
Ran them, without loving or hating...
Bofa (Bang & Olufsen, Denmark)
KM 2 (ca 1950-55) Sure needed some kind of soft-start device, and sure was a devil with worn prints.
Cinemeccanica:
Victoria 8 A fairly decent 35mm proj, but picture not steady enough to make justice for the size and weight. YoYo sounddrum not nice (same on all Cinemec's) As 70mm - NO thank You !
Victoria 9: The best thing, a most positive salesman could say about it: We've sold several - and they all run every day !!
Rock and Roll is here to stay. -Never met one with perfect working shutter. -Better than the rubberband little brother Vic 5, though.
Victoria 10 Thanked no to job after visiting booth. -Maybe not the projector's fault - they were held together with spikes and rubber band.
Dislike a bit:
Bauer U3 - 6000 feet without pain in back was nice, filmpath not nice for the repertoire-house prints, i had to run on them.
Never forget very last showings of twenty year old 70mm South Pacific. Film all over the place... Format chance even worse than U2. Rubber bands inside - not worthy to the Bauer name !
------------------------------------------------
Don't like
Cinemeccanica Victoria 5, Victoria 8 (as 70mm)
Kalee 12 - Too expensive in oil
Kalee 21 - talk about museum - on display only, please
----------------------------------------------------
Would have liked to try working with
Prevost P 65 / 70 (??) only visited once - ran as soft as a Dp70 on it's best days.
Zeiss Ikon Favorit 70 - very much alike the Prevost. -A spinoff?
Very few of the Prevosts in Denmark - last set taken down 20 years ago. Favorit 70 - only one pair - long gone by.
----------------------------------------
Gord,
what was Your reason for ![[thumbsdown]](graemlins/thumbsdown.gif)
on all the Bauer's ?
Schaeffer,
Those lens turrets on the Kinoton's - The new ones, too ?
-what goes wrong: electric or mechanic ?
Should i go for single lens holder for my upcoming FP30, while i still can ? Anybody else with same trouble as Michael on these ?
![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
panic !!!
Per
Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 05-13-2003, 11:10 PM:
I just find the U2 hard on alignment loops and a pain to repair work on. Also the teflon gate bands tend to build up terrific static
The Zeis Favorite 70 was built by Prevost and is the P70 and the Zies Favorite 16mm is also a prevost
Posted by Michael West (Member # 428) on 05-13-2003, 11:45 PM:
machines i like:
century c, jj
machines that are ok
simplex xl, 35 all of them
machines that kind of make me nervous
cinemeccanica vic.5, 8
machine i really like but is way overloaded with odd failsafes
IMAX SR
i have worked with other machines but did not spend enough time to have an opinion.
Posted by German Marin (Member # 918) on 05-14-2003, 06:37 PM:
I've worked and I like
Prevost P60
Century SA
Simplex XL
Simplex PR 2000
I've worked and I don't like
Christie's (easy to work with as a projectionist but it's a freak!)
I would like to work
Kinoton's
some 70mm projector.
Posted by John T. Moon II (Member # 1694) on 05-14-2003, 09:47 PM:
Projectors I have worked with:
IMAX Classic – Solid Great running machine
IMAX GT 3D Dual Rotor – More difficult to thread but a true engineering marvel!
IWERKS 15/70 Projector
Mega Systems 8/70 Projector – Nice picture overall
Advanced Image Systems – Maverick Projector – 15/70 unique belt drive system
Kinoton PK60D – 35mm projector. Has some flaws, but overall nice to operate.
Posted by Dan Harris (Member # 1759) on 06-23-2003, 03:50 PM:
I've worked with and like:
Cinemeccanica V8 - dual 35/70 model as well as 35 only
Cinemeccanica V9
Philips/Kinoton FP20 - despite the fact that the ones I've worked with were not in the best condition
Philips/Kinoton FP30
I've worked with and hate:
Cinemeccanica V5 - flimsy feel, dodgy shutter drive, unsteady picture
Cinemeccanica V4
I would love to work with and I'm sure I'll like:
Philips DP70
Philips DP75
Dan
Posted by Jason Burroughs (Member # 68) on 06-23-2003, 04:57 PM:
After working with a V-5 for a while, I have have to admit I kinda grew to like them. if the shutter was a bit better designed, better cooling of the gate, and a curved gate with improved steadiness, and an improved soundhead arrangement they'd be a really nice projector.
Disclaimer: the V-5's I've worked with were in reasonable shape, just a little neglect, manual turrets.
One thing that I did like about it, is that you could strip down the projector to just the main casting with a set of allen wrenches and screwdrivers in not very much time, and it wasn't a huge pain to put back together.
Downside, you had to practially disassemble the whole thing to replace the shutter drive box, which are prone to fail.
Even the straight gates were quiet running (especially for a straight gate), very gentle on the film, loop size was very forgiving. Also cleaning was pretty simple.
Maybe I've just had good luck with Christies, but I think that they have an undeserved bad rap. Yes they require a little more attention, but if you maintain them they put out a nice steady picture, they're quiet (most of the time) and are gentle on film.
Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 06-23-2003, 05:15 PM:
The Vic5 has a curved gate on the new machines and is retrofitable on older ones (and produces a rock steady image
The gear box for the shutter is all metal gears now and if kept lubricated has no problems
and water cooling is available as well
Posted by Dan Harris (Member # 1759) on 06-23-2003, 07:15 PM:
The V-5s we have here hail from '93, but are still in very good condition. They have manual turrets, too.
The only problem we have with them is that the shutter drives do tend to to fail. Admittedly, if we actually bought five new drives I'm sure they would be much better, but, shortsightedness in the company means they will only pay for refurbished units.
We change the belts and oil regularly to keep them running smoothly, so rarely have any other problems.
Maybe when I get my hands on a new model (I'm planning to move to a brand new site, due to open next year) with curved gate and water cooling, I might think a little differently, but I still don't like the whole 'clip together' feeling of them. And the CC-4000H console feels like it might fall apart with the slightest knock!
Has anyone got any photos of the new curved gates?
Dan
Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 06-23-2003, 07:22 PM:
Cinemeccanica V5 curved gate
I would like to play with one of these new gates myself, but unfortunately there just aren't any Cinemeccanica houses around town anymore. I always felt the projector was extremely gentle on film and the ones I worked with put out a nice steady picture and was probably the quietest projector I've ever ran.
Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 06-23-2003, 10:01 PM:
Bah! Brenkerts still rule.
I got a letter from Robert Sprague last week, and in the author's text, it was admitted there was an issue with the bevel gear that was supposedly damaged by operators "hammering" the machine to advance it to verify threading. That problem was cured in the BX-100 for the most part when Brenkert switched from the 48-tooth bevel to the 40-tooth bevel gear. Come to think of it, I don't recall ever changing a 40-tooth bevel in the BX-100, but I have done a few that had the 48-toother.
The old BX-60 was a cheaper machine, but it was still built like a brick shithouse. The only failures I have seen in them was the framing sector gear (because nobody seems to know how to rack the damn thing in frame,) and the intermediate gear bushing because operators were using oil that was too heavy to get into the bushing and keep it lubricated.
Other than that, those machines never seemed to die. They just kept on running and running....even though the intermediate gear was going "Wooga Wooga" on the intermediate shaft....but the picture on the screen was still rock solid!
Brad, if I can shit another BX-60, I'll send it to you for test purposes. You'll love it. However, I sent my last BX-60 to Robert Sprague, since he helped build the damn things. He has sentimental value in those old work horses for obvious reasons.
Posted by Michael Schaffer (Member # 1204) on 06-24-2003, 03:51 AM:
I would be interested in feedback about the Kinoton FP50 and PK60. These are products for the American market - I never saw either of them in Germany.
Obviously the projector head components are exactly the same as on the FP30D or FP30E. Still, I would be interested to find out what you think about these, especially with the complete console.
Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 06-24-2003, 09:50 AM:
Brenkerts have outlived there usefullness. They don't accept short focus lens well. There are many far better machines out there
Posted by Luciano Brigite (Member # 1104) on 06-24-2003, 01:31 PM:
Here's my list ( thought I had posted here before but seems I didnt ![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
)
Projectors I worked with and like:
Simplex Super, E7, XL, PR's up to 1060
Century ( don't remember the model right now)
Cinemeccanica Vic.8 and Vic.10
Brenkert/RCA BX80 BX100
Gaumont-Kalee 12,21
Projectors I worked with and don't really like but will work with:
Erneman 4,9,10
Prevost 35mm only
Gaumont-Kalee 18
Projectors I worked with and don't like
Philips FP5 FP6 FP55 FP56
Prevost 35/70MM
Projectors I didn't work with and don't want to:
none in the list yet.
Projectors I'd like to see in action and work with:
Kinoton
Norelco AA2
Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 06-24-2003, 03:23 PM:
Probably why the Brenkerts have a little trouble accepting short focal lengths is because the last Brenkert that came off the production line was in the year 1953, maybe 1954.
Historically, the BX-100 and the Simplex XL were the first two 35mm mechanisms to have 4-inch lens mounts, either standard or optional.
Motiograph and Century both adopted 4-inch mounts by around 1953. (Motiograph did that on their AAA mechanisms, and Century did the same on their late model "C" and CC machines) and other manufactures soon followed suit.
Brenkert was dissolved by RCA, after it was determined Brenkert had no future. They only made about 1500 BX-100's before they tossed in the towel. If Brenkert were alive today, all those short-throw problems would have been solved, just like it was for Simplex and Century.
As far as the short throw issue some of the Brenkets had, That is not what killed Brenkert. The BX-100 was just as good as the XL, only XL had the market. That's how I see it.
Sort of like the Diesel locomotive industry. 85% of the locomotives running around in the United States were made by EMD, a subsidery of General Motors Corporation. The remaining 15% were made by General Electric.
Brenkert had such a small market they couldn't survive, even though it was one of the best mechanisms that ever made.
Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 06-24-2003, 10:06 PM:
Quote:
"Come to think of it, I don't recall ever changing a 40-tooth bevel in the BX-100, but I have done a few that had the 48-toother."
_________________________________________________________________
I agree that if you got an original 40 toother bevel it would practically run forever. The Wolk replacements would only last 3 weeks to the hour though. The Strand in Manitowoc had 4 BX-100's that ate Wolk gears left and right. It was John Eickooff that finally found 4 original 40 toothers and they ran happily ever after for many years. I think that the shutter blades comming loose and bobbing like they did was hard on the 48 toothers. Oddly, the Wolk 48 toothers were not too bad.
BTW: Chicago was at one time a big Brenkert(RCA) town.....
Hey you forgot ALCO locomotives at about 8 to 10% of the total.
Mark
Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 06-24-2003, 10:56 PM:
Biggest thing I seen with the shutters coming loose on the Brenkerts is because (1) They tried to time them like a Simplex, and (2) the flanges were over-torqued on the screws with the gaskets missing. ![[Frown]](frown.gif)
ALCO merged with GE I think.....Their locomotives sucked when they were by themselves. I know of three junk ALCO's sitting in Shelton, WA up on the hill....one was sitting on top a big pile of Simson Timber Company's logs. How it got there, I don't know, but it did look kind of funny.
Here is something I didn't know....from spring of 1942 to summer of 1945, no Brenkert theatre equipment was in production. The factory manufactured then-secret homing devices to guide returning aircraft to the U.S. aircraft carriers.
I have an old navy captain friend who flew in WWII...I'll see if I can determine what they were.
[ 06-25-2003, 12:44 AM: Message edited by: Paul G. Thompson ]
Posted by Per Hauberg (Member # 529) on 06-25-2003, 07:51 AM:
Special offer for complete maniacs:
My Vic 9 just made it out the booth door an hour ago, and the brand new FP30D is on it's way in.
If the Vic is the projector, You allways dreamt of, do look around this afternoon, and we will give You an offer, You can't refuse - on a nice straitjacket with matching cuffs and gag....
p.
Posted by John Anastasio (Member # 607) on 06-25-2003, 11:26 AM:
I've seen Brenkerts with 4-inch adaptors on them. In fact, I have a BX60 sitting in my basement with a 4" lens mount.
Posted by William T. Parr (Member # 677) on 06-25-2003, 12:00 PM:
Hey Paul, Ge Did not Merge with Alco, they put Alco out of business. GE was the supplier to ALCO for traction motors and generatos. When GE decided to get into the business, this left ALCO with out a source for these parts and they did not have anything set up in house to build thier own so went ALCO. I have noticed that Baldwin Locomotive Works has not been mentioned as they were Big builders in the early 50's. There downside was they used air for Multiple Unit Operations and Electric for Sanding and Brake Controls. Everyone else was the opposite. As to my Favorite Projector I love the Century SATA's of the mid 80's era. Cinemark put these in before they switched to Christie Package. Least Favorite projector is the Christie P35GPS, Used them for 3 months at the Century 16 in Corpus. Belts Shed really bad in these machine.
Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 06-25-2003, 01:28 PM:
William, you are right about the merge. Sorry. ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
Posted by Per Hauberg (Member # 529) on 06-29-2003, 03:53 AM:
Talk about "need to get used to".
Kinoton FP30D now fills out the booth of my screen 2 - in action since june, 27th. Beautiful, steady picture with well-distributed light - almost too much for that small 10 feet screen; -the rectifier won't go under 42 A.
But on working comfort it fails with a big BØMP in the book - at least for the first two days. That ![[bs]](graemlins/bs.gif)
damned turret just sit there and can't be moved - one false move and the film path drops off the spike - and absolutely no room for my fat fingers getting in there to frame picture. Having loaded Dp70 now for 29 years with lights out and one hands tied on the back, this is a culture chock. Anybody know FP30 with single lens holder - better/worse ?
I'm close to furious - something has to be done.
Learn something every day...
p.
Posted by Dave Macaulay (Member # 813) on 06-29-2003, 09:31 AM:
I think you'll get used to the projector. After dropping the skate a few times you avoid pushing it off the spike. I agree that with the turret there isn't much room at all! Single lens units are much better for space The Kinoton/Philips single lens holder is very easy and fast to change and locks into precise location.
The turret is a rather complicated piece of kit, assuming you mean the electronic Kinoton turret. You need a laptop, Kinoton software, and several hundred dollars worth of test adapter dongles to test/calibrate/set-up the thing. Your dealer should be able to do so, or get Kinoton involved directly.
I wouldn't advise playing with it without the required equipment, and investing in the dongles for just one turret isn't economically practical.
It should work quite well once set up properly though. It will not fail nicely by acting up or giving you some warning though, just quit. With the software you can see how close to failing it is. The principles of operation and the maintenance procedure is way to complicated to describe here!
My opinions on the turret:
It is very nicely made. Quite fast, too.
It's just too complicated. Simplex turrets have problems, but do we really need several microprocessors to make a couple of lenses turn? Speed is great but in North America at least we don't usually need to do online lens changes; trailers and snipes are almost always released in flat and scope.
Kinoton should have put in data interfaces instead of needing expensive adapters for set-up and maintenance.
Needs more adjustment range; I don't think it will allow top-only masking (common in N.A. multis).
Posted by Per Hauberg (Member # 529) on 06-29-2003, 01:09 PM:
Dave:
I believe, You're right. -Today - on third day i have already altered the word about the first two days from furious to hysteric, and todays word seems to be stressed, soon again to chance to "friendly". The skate hasn't even been off the spike today ![[Wink]](wink.gif)
Besides, as already mentioned - when mad on my new "pardner", i can just go inside the auditorium and look at those pretty pictures, and i'll be happy again.
I did hear enough about the electronic turret to ask for a manual one from start, but i may also be asking to chance for single lens holder.
As for installation and service, i'm lucky to deal with Kinoton directly, having all the help in the world for anything in the box.
p.
Posted by Tim Reed (Member # 137) on 06-29-2003, 01:38 PM:
Keep at it, Per!
Posted by Michael Schaffer (Member # 1204) on 06-29-2003, 01:51 PM:
I think the FP30D is one of the the easiest projectors to thread. It has so few rollers left and even though there is not much space between the gate and the skate, it is very easy and quick. You make the upper loop and hold it with the index finger of your left hand, then put the film on the intermittent, hold it tight aginst the casing with the thumb of the right hand, then let it snap closed with the index finger of your right hand.
Did you ask for the adapter to realign the turret?
It is not entirely precise, but it is quite effective with a little practice. Why did you buy an auto lens turret anyway? It is a waste of money for a 2-screen.
Posted by Per Hauberg (Member # 529) on 06-29-2003, 03:06 PM:
![[puke]](graemlins/puke.gif)
I know that it makes sense in terms of economy and service, but -- well, look at a DP70 and then at a DP75 with is pathetic plastic pressure pads, "if you gotta ask, you`re never gonna know". Don`t tell me Kinoton machines are fine, I know they are.)