This is topic New Gaskets For Simplex And RCA Soundhead Gearboxes in forum Film Handlers' Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.
To visit this topic, use this URL:
https://ft-forum.com/ft/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=003875
Posted by Will Kutler (Member # 770) on 08-17-2002, 06:23 PM:
Ok gang...Now that I am working full time as a die maker...I have a proposition for everyone.
I came across some gasket material that should work beautifully for RCA and Simplex Soundheads. It is 1/32 rubber/fiber gasket material for auto engine applications (water, gas and oil). Anyhow, this material should work much better than the existing material...(knowing how everyone LOVES leaking gearboxes)! 
Anyhow, If I get enough interest, I will go ahead and make the dies to cut them out...and can run them at work.
If I get enough interest, the cost should be not much more than the gaskets currently on the market, but I have not done any cost sheets, yet. Depends on how much interest I get...
Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 08-17-2002, 06:30 PM:
One thing to be concerned about: The RCA-1040/1050 sound heads don't have a complete gearbox, as part of the gearbox is actually the soundhead casting. The gasket may be too thick to allow for proper end play of the shafts, thereby causing a mis-alignment. It might be a good idea to try one first before you go to press on them.
Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 08-17-2002, 07:54 PM:
Will, another thing you HAVE to watch is Gasket thickness. Too thick of material is bad for proper clearances between the bearing caps and main housing. I juat rebuilt a gearbox yesterday with some OS Simplex gaskets and they are extremely thin for the bearing caps, the main housing gaskets are also thin, but not sure on actual thickness. The Housing gasket I used was a Wolk gasket and was really just a bit too thick IMHO. The sort that you talk about would be nice though. Do the Simplex, and RCA stuff first!! You'll sell some of those right off the bat. BTW, the gaskets for the 4 star and XL-type gear boxes are exactly the same. Worry about the others after you make your first million!
Mark
Posted by Pete Lawrence (Member # 130) on 08-17-2002, 08:14 PM:
Will has a good idea here. I wasn't to happy with a RCA 1040 gear box gasket I got form Wolk some time ago, so I hand cut one from a material similar to what Will described. Got a small roll of the stuff at the local auto parts store. Works great. The "original" that I replaced measures about 0.032" where it wasn't squeezed and about 0.020" where it was compressed for many years. Will, you might consider doing the round gaskets for the shaft ends also. These are a slightly thinner material however. About 0.015" after being squeezed.
The last ones I got from Wolk were a shrunken paper material that really didn't fit right.
Posted by Will Kutler (Member # 770) on 08-19-2002, 03:53 PM:
Pete, Paul and Mark....I will get in touch with the material manufacturer to see what thicknesses this material comes in, and what it "crushes" down to.
Maybe you guys, or Pat Moore, can supply me with the approperiate data regarding gasket thickness for proper shaft alignment.
And yes, I can make the dies to cut all the gaskets...
Posted by Josh Jones (Member # 447) on 08-19-2002, 11:54 PM:
well then perhaps you could make me some new oil pump gaskets JJ
Posted by Harry Robinson (Member # 265) on 08-20-2002, 12:11 AM:
Will, count me in. I'd like to see if it's possible to have my 1040 running without any leakage.
Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 08-20-2002, 02:35 AM:
Harry, the only time the 1040's, 1050's, 9030's, 9050's and the Simplex SH10** didn't leak is when they were sittin' on the shelf. And, that's because there was nothing in them.
Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 08-20-2002, 09:33 AM:
Actually bearing caps with seals would also be a good idea. One could add more oil to the box and use a level tube like on the Pro 35.
About double or triple the amount of oil in them would help alot.
Mark
Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 08-21-2002, 09:43 PM:
Mark:I don't think sealed bearings would do the trick unless they were a press fit on the shafts.
Posted by Harry Robinson (Member # 265) on 08-22-2002, 12:22 AM:
Paul, the old 1040 has been running great since I rebuilt it. But you know, it wouldn't suck to not have to oil the damn thing every time I use it. The problem is if I change out to a 9050 (and there is one available to me at a reasonable cost) I'll also have to change out my pedestal. And while I'm at it I might as well find an XL. It's kind of a pandora's box. The fact is, I'm grateful for what I've got. By the way Paul, love the new picture. Wait, it keeps changing!
Posted by Josh Jones (Member # 447) on 08-22-2002, 12:37 AM:
Harry, what kind of pedestal do you have?Josh
Posted by Dick Prather (Member # 1136) on 08-22-2002, 03:20 AM:
Most of the gearbox soundheads did seep a little oil but if set up correctly not much. In addition to proper gasket thickness you need the proper weight oil to the correct height. Never above the holdback sprocket shaft or it will leak every time. Sometimes you can't trust the mark on the oil sight glass. Correct oil slingers in the proper places. RCA has a couple of different sized ones. Nothing wrong with a 1040-70 series soundheads if kept up. Flywheel version being better such as 1050-60 soundheads. They use the same gears and pinion as the 9030-50's. Remember the 1040 mount is the same as Simplex or Century soundheads.I used to by "no leak kits" for soundheads which included all gaskets and screws from Perke Industries in Chicago then he moved to Arizona. He had a gasket with a tar like look inside that sealed real good. Mark, I don't know if you remember him or not. The only problem was his thickness on Simplex gaskets which are very thin and do make a difference in shaft play. His were like RCA gaskest and did not work. I think he went out of business several years ago.
I would also be interested in seeing what gaskets you come up with.
Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 08-22-2002, 09:10 AM:
I have often wondered about the century/simplex soundhead mounting as one thing I have found that when ever I put a century soundhead on a Simplex base the projector head is too low to align with the lamphouse yet with a Ballantyne 7 or any simplex it is usuall smack on or close enough that the minimal adjustment simplex allowed for could get it within the ball park
Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 08-22-2002, 05:13 PM:
Mark, I mis-read your post. If seals are included in the bearing caps, there would be no need to have press-fit bearings on the shafts.
Paul
Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 08-22-2002, 10:26 PM:
Dick, I remember Tom At Perke. He had alot of good ideas but faded from the scene. Last I heard he was living in Arizona and selling popcorn.Paul, Yea, juat like the Pro 35. They wouldn't leak a drop for a long, long time.
Mark
Posted by Will Kutler (Member # 770) on 04-04-2003, 11:18 AM:
Hey Gang!
I am finally getting around to building the dies. As soon as they are complete, I would like to send out just a few samples to Mark G., John Eickhof, Brad or Joe...or someone so that they can install them and evaluate them in a "real world" application. If all goes well, then I'll go to press and market. I have not set a price yet. I think cost per set will be set by the amount of sales orders....but I'll have to see. If any of you can do the ops check for me, then please make a post or send me an e-mail....thanks!
Posted by Dave Macaulay (Member # 813) on 04-04-2003, 03:20 PM:
I'm just waiting for bearings to reassemble the 9030 gearbox. I did notice that there were 2 types of bearings I removed, #6202 on the sprocket shaft with about 12 balls and a different (although identical size) one with 8 balls on the driven shaft. The parts list only shows one type though...
Anyway, as to gaskets: I don't think a good seal is really possible with the bearing caps used. The alloy is pretty weak and isn't going to have even pressure and compress the gasket well between the screws. I'm considering using a thin coating of silicon gasket sealant on both sides of the gaskets shich should eliminate any seepage, and still be removable (unlike permatex).
This should make it pretty much oiltight - not much should creep out along the shafts. Someone will probably overfill it immediately and make all the effort wasted though.
I particularly like the projector oil collection system built into the soundhead.
Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 04-04-2003, 06:49 PM:
Will, We have a large batch of 4 star soundheads going through the shop right now. How long do you think it'll be? You could also do all the X-L gaskets too. Especially the main drive bearing gaskets. The material provided by Wolk and Strong leave alot to be desired. Here again the thickness is important. While you're at it you should buy the domain name projectorgaskets.com and set yourself up.
Mark @ CLACO
801-355-1250
Posted by Bob Koch (Member # 1062) on 04-04-2003, 06:57 PM:
In Dick Prather`s post you will note 2 important things, PROPER lubricant and correct level. Provided the pipe holding the oil gauge is`nt bent the level should be checked after the projector has been idle for a significant time
; as the projector is started the oil level in the sight glass should lower visably if it doesnt you dont have sufficient oil. Dont add oil while proj is running, wait till it has been idle for at least 20 minutes.
When these soundheads were first marketed, RCA 1040-50 1936;Simplex SH 1000, 1938; multi weight motor oils[sae10/30, 10/40 et al] had`nt happened yet. The correct oil is 30 for RCA and sae 40 for Simplex, I always put 40 in both sometimes even Harley Davidson 50 weight. Oil leakage is always minimized with the proper lubricants which nowadays a person must really have to dig to find them. I had several running with 50 oil with no trouble. When I was serviceing I used to take both makes down at least every 18 mos or so. More often if they had a Brenkert on top of them. When the XL came out in 1950 it drove so easy bronze gear and pinion problems were greatly reduced.
Posted by Kenneth Wuepper (Member # 1174) on 04-05-2003, 06:58 AM:
Lubricant Availability:
I have found that the local farm supply stores have 30, 40 and 50 weight Non-Detergent oils available off the shelf. It seems that many farm implements use these lubricants.
Although available in 1 gallon sized containers, these are readily available.
KEN
Posted by Harry Robinson (Member # 265) on 04-05-2003, 10:15 AM:
Will,
Count me in when you're ready with the gaskets. And Josh, it's been a year but in response to your post I have a Ballantyne light-duty pedestal. I've still got the 1040, and it still works great.