This is topic CA-21/FM-35 Automation Problem in forum Film Handlers' Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.


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Posted by Manny Knowles (Member # 1171) on 08-23-2002, 06:19 AM:
 
I am using Christie/Pennywise CA-21 automations.This particular site uses the wall-mount version which is VERY similar to the console mounted (or rack mounted) version.

The cue detector/failsafe is the Component Engineering FM-35.

Here is the symptom: Machine runs for 8-10sec and shuts off.

This feels very much like a false alarm from the failsafe side. I say it's like a false alarm because the FM-35/CA-21 are designed to shut down the projector if it detects a loss of film presence. In this case, the film is actually right where it should be: firmly seated on the large, white roller.

Something else... At the moment of failure, all three of the proximity lights (inboard, centre & outboard) will 'flash' as though a frameline cue had passed, even though no foil tape is present.

Early in my examination of these systems I noticed four of these systems with the cable going into the FM-35 unplugged. (The projectionists explained that those units "were not working.")

The first thing I decided to try was a total disassembly of these four units, followed by a thorough cleaning (washing the parts in warm water and Simple Green). I air dried the parts by placing them on towels and using a hair dryer on a medium setting, turning over the parts frequently. One of them started working properly after that but the other three setups remained unchanged; the exact same problem was still there.

Next step: I will swap one of the problematic FM-35s with one that is known to be working. In doing so, I intend to rule out the actual detector as part of the problem. I suspect this is an issue of bad wiring. I left these machines programmed a certain way and then returned to find nonsensical programming. One of the console mounted units (at another location) was acting up and we found a wire jumper in a silly place.

Here's where I need help: If this were a wiring problem...where is the problem most likely to be found? What should I check first?

~Manny.

"Your help in this matter won't go unrewarded." -- Jesus Christ Superstar


 


Posted by Darryl Spicer (Member # 711) on 08-23-2002, 09:05 AM:
 
Did you check the the FM35 unit for damage to the circute boards. It has been known that if the film or the units get out of alignment with proper film path the film can cut into the circute board on the side. One thing to try is to remove the Presence and motion sensor board from the unit and see if the thing shuts down. Just remove the four screws and plate and unplug the board. The presence and motion LED's should light and stay on.
 
Posted by Ken Layton (Member # 133) on 08-23-2002, 11:43 AM:
 
Another thing to check is to see if the FM35 is an early model or is the upgraded (current) version. Talk to either Bill Purdy or Don Olson at Component Engineering. There were problems with the early versions. The currently manufactured ones are very reliable IF KEPT CLEAN!

 
Posted by Don Olson (Member # 90) on 08-23-2002, 11:51 AM:
 
Manny:

On first blush it sounds to me like your power supply is dropping below a safe level ( for the FM-35 ) at the moment of failure. This accounts for the cues all firing at once. Perhaps this is at a time when many things are happening inside the automation. Relays, timers, etc. So, you can prove this with a meter or scope on the power rail. If your meter has a min/max recorder then so much the better. If this proves to be the case you have at least two options. One is to power the FM-35 with an external power source with sufficient voltage. The other would be to modify your power supplying scheme a little to include an isolation diode and a cap. I am happy to send you a little sketch of this if you need it.

If this is not the cure then please call me at 206 284 9171. or Email to dolson@componentengineering.com and we will work this out.

Best of luck
Don Olson
Component Engineering.

 


Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 08-23-2002, 01:26 PM:
 
Manny, you did not say if you have a CA21 in the building that is properly working with a FM35 failsafe. The CA21s can be configured for a bobble delay, so that they will ignore the failsafes for X number of seconds and THEN kick in. This is to accomodate slack on a reel to reel system or a platter elevator in need of lubrication. On an FM35, you won't need "motion", just "presence" when hooked into a CA21. Also make sure you are only using one of the available cues and the others are not connected.

This may not be your problem, but since everyone else was looking at the failsafe as the fault, I thought I might throw some ideas your way about possible mis-wirings with the automation that can cause the same end result. Whatever your solution ends up being, be sure and post it here for people to refer to in the future.
 


Posted by Manny Knowles (Member # 1171) on 08-23-2002, 09:20 PM:
 
Oh, yes! These FM-35s have been working with the CA-21s for about 3 years. I have 3 others in this building that are still playing nice with each other.

I will investigate the bobble delay. Someone has definitely monkeyed around with these -- there's other evidence of that .

~Manny (It's Miller Time!)


 


Posted by Manny Knowles (Member # 1171) on 08-24-2002, 07:30 PM:
 
Bumping this to the surface...

I am about to return to that theatre to tackle this problem and I have three questions for Brad (his post) or anyone who knows the answers:

1. How would I extend the CA-21 bobble delay beyond the preset 8 seconds?
2. Is this a user modification? I don't see it in the manual.
3. Why don't you use the "Motion" detector?

~Manny (Open Sundays and Holidays).


 


Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 08-24-2002, 09:29 PM:
 
The bobble delay is pre-programmed on the eproms. I think the newer capio models are user programmable for this.

The CA21 has no provision nor need for "motion".
 


Posted by Alex Grasic (Member # 1371) on 08-25-2002, 03:02 AM:
 
You mentioned that the you think the FM 35 may not be seeing motion. I don't mean to be repetitive or anything but make sure that the lens (the infrared light) is clean. I had a problem two or three times before and it was because the projectionists neglect cleaning those lenses on a consistent basis! Once I took some lens cleaner to it, it was all good!
 
Posted by Manny Knowles (Member # 1171) on 08-25-2002, 07:22 AM:
 
Brad - we apply the motion detector. I will let you know where we connect it. I don't suspect this is the problem but I know you like this automation so I thought you might want to know what other users are doing with it.

Alex - Please re-read my original post. I already gave them a full "bath" in warm water and Simple Green. That only solved the problem on one unit.

~Manny (the only one you need.)


 






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