This is topic What was that paint again... (Projector Rebuild) in forum Film Handlers' Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.
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Posted by Randy Loy (Member # 112) on 08-27-2002, 02:13 PM:
Last winter I posted a message about my plans to rebuild a vintage Simplex Standard projector head that I had acquired from a friend who owns a cinema equipment company. He obtained the machine, with a VERY old RCA soundhead, and pedestal as part of a lot when he was buying newer projection equipment out of a long-closed theatre.John Eickhof has been very helpful with advising me on the vintage of my Simplex Standard, it was manufactured in late 1927, and has advised me on paint colors used during the initial manufacturing of these units and subsequent factory rebuilds.
My question now is about the brand/s of paints that you guys have found best suited for this task. As I recall, in response to my thread of last winter, people suggested products called something like "Hammertone" or "Hammerite." I've not found anything like this in my local hardware stores. Is my memory faulty regarding the product names?
Any suggestions on what paint I should use? I want to use glossy paints since the unit had a glossy, not textured exterior finish when new. Also, should the paint be heat resistant? I'm assuming it should be since the xenon lamp will generate heat against the rear of the casing, separated only by the rear shutter and shutter housing.
Posted by Bernard Tonks (Member # 809) on 08-27-2002, 04:26 PM:
I was one of the contributors, and recommended Hammerite Enamel gloss white radiator paint. It is extremely hard wearing and heat resistant, and will never fade. Only get the spirit based, do not use water based as it runs too much on application. You will need to apply three coats for a good and strong whiter than white finish. I did my 32 year old Westars (Century) and they looked brand new. WARNING Do not use ordinary Hammerite quick drying cellulose (spelling?) white, it will discolour and yellow within six months! I don’t suppose the radiator variety is available in all states of America, hot climates like Florida has no need for radiators possibly? Sure you will be able to track down a supplier somewhere. Hammerite UK www.hammerite.com
Edit: USA is: www.masterchem.com But they do not appear to stock all Hammerite products from the UK. Perhaps Masterchem will import the radiator paint on special request. Or you contact Hammerite in the UK yourself. E-mail if I can be of any further help e.g you cannot obtain the product or suitable alternatives.
Posted by Gordon Bachlund (Member # 124) on 08-27-2002, 07:18 PM:
I used Hammerite bronze to touch up my Kinoton equipment. While some colors are available from Home Depot, I had to special order the bronze from a friendly paint dealer.
A word of caution. Shake the spray cans thoroughly so that the pigments mix well or the "hammered" appearance of the finish will be compromised.
Good luck.
Posted by Bill Mantz (Member # 754) on 08-27-2002, 09:56 PM:
I Just finished resoring my Super Simplex and SH-1000 Sound head. I too had a problem finding the Hammerite paints to restore my projector I e-mail the company who disiruted the paints in the U.S. and they said any True Value hardware stores carry them. But I still could not find the Wrinke Finish that matched the original, but one day a catalog came in the mail and had all the paints that I needed to restore all of my old projectors. www.eastwoodco.com
Hope you find what you looking for
------------------
Posted by Sam Hunter (Member # 1119) on 08-27-2002, 10:04 PM:
Hey guys,
in regards to Wrinkle coat finishes, is it true that in order for the paint to "wrinkle" properly you have to place whatever you just sprayed in an oven or will it work ok on its on?------------------
Samuel Hunter Sr.
Death to DLP (Video)
Posted by John Eickhof (Member # 323) on 08-27-2002, 10:13 PM:
The 'wrinkle' finish paints will wrinkle on their own, however the paint has to be applied in several thick coats and must be above 70 degrees. Heat lamps will speed up the process and make fine wrinkles as opposed to course wrinkles if dried at room temperature. Remember, Standard and super simplexes were never wrinkle finish prior to 1940. They were always gloss black inside and out. If they were rebuilt by NTS / IPC after 1940 they were wrinkle black on the outside, and appliance white inside. An excellent US made paint is 'Rust-O-leum'
it is petro based and applies very well. If you use Eastwood paints, be sure to shake frequently, especially the wrinkle colors. Have fun!------------------
John Eickhof President, Chief Slave
Northwest Theatre Equipment Co., Inc.
P.O.Box 258
Wendell, ID. 83355-0258
208-536-5489
email: jeickhof@nteequip.com
Posted by Bill Mantz (Member # 754) on 08-27-2002, 11:11 PM:
Johns right put on a thick coat of the wrinkle paint and then wait 5 minutes and put on another thick coat. as to baking it the paint will bubble and them you will have to strip it and try again. It take 24 hours to fully wrinkle and after that so parts my still be wet so wait 48 hours before you handle it. The Hammerite white gloss can be bake and after its done the white finish will be the off white color that was used in the later Simplexes.------------------
Posted by Ken Layton (Member # 133) on 08-28-2002, 12:27 AM:
Funny, I never had a problem baking wrinkle paint in the oven. I use 3 coats of wrinkle applied thus: one coat sprayed horizontally, wait five minutes, spray a coat vertically, wait five minutes, then spray the final coat diagonally. Bake in the oven on middle rack at 190 degrees for 50 minutes and let parts cool down naturally. I can start reassembling the parts after about 3 hours.
One note: the parts being painted should have a temperature of around 80 to 90 degrees as the paint is being sprayed on them.
Posted by Bernard Tonks (Member # 809) on 08-28-2002, 05:01 AM:
Hammerite is the nearest product that I know of, that has the toughness of oven baked enamel. A half pint size (500ml) tin would be sufficient to do at least 3 projector & soundheads. Shake well and regular stir! 
Posted by Sam Hunter (Member # 1119) on 08-28-2002, 12:03 PM:
John,
You back home yet?
I am about to bust open waiting to hear from you.
Well, not really.
------------------
Samuel Hunter Sr.
Death to DLP (Video)
Posted by Randy Loy (Member # 112) on 08-28-2002, 02:56 PM:
Thanks everybody for the great advice. I really appreciate it.
Posted by Barry Floyd (Member # 385) on 08-28-2002, 03:45 PM:
Not to sound completely moronic, but when baking the wrinkle finsh paint in the oven, I'm assuming that everything that will come off or apart needs to be stripped from the projector. Before I go sticking my XL in my wife's oven... I might want to know. What's the best weay to remove the oil thats soaked into the aluminum castings?Also, is there any difference "heat-wise" when it comes to what color you should repaint the machine? I have no idea what year my XL is, but I know it had been at the drive-in where I got it for quite a while.
Here's what the projector looked like the day I bought it.
------------------
Barry Floyd
Floyd Entertainment Group
Lebanon, Tennessee
Stardust Drive-In Theatre
Watertown, Tennessee
Posted by Steve Kraus (Member # 476) on 08-28-2002, 06:22 PM:
I can see doing a wrinkle finish to be authentic on vintage gear but why did this finish come into being in the first place? It's harder to keep clean in an oily environment.
Posted by Will Kutler (Member # 770) on 08-28-2002, 08:55 PM:
Remember that zinc based primer should be used on non-ferrous parts. Ace Hardware has a zinc based primer in their brand.Hammerite or Hammertone is symply a paint that cures with a ball peined hammer type look. There are several brands of paints w/a hammered finish. Once again, check Ace Hardware.
Personally, I cannot stand black wrinkled finishes. Too hard to clean and inspect for dirt...it is not practical.
I am currently repainting my Supers, Sh1000s and E7.
Paints of choice: Zinc primer on non-ferrous surfaces;
Dupli-Color High Temp (oil, gas, grease resistant) engine ceramic based paints. Color of choice is New Ford Grey and White sanded and rubbed between coats. And it is really comming out nice. Resembles the color of grey used on most industrial equipment.
When using zinc primers, only a very light coat is needed. Also pay strong attention to your brand of paint's instructions. Many of todays paints are not meant for numerous coats as they might not be able to vapor vent and will not cure! Also, if your manufacturer says to wait a given period of time between coats, then do it...or unwanted things can happen!
Posted by Sam Hunter (Member # 1119) on 08-28-2002, 09:36 PM:
I was thinking Chevy Orange for my project.
Well, maybe not.
If I was to ever decide to rebuild my stuff I would aim to get it back as close to "Factory" as I can get.------------------
Samuel Hunter Sr.
Death to DLP (Video)
Posted by Randy Loy (Member # 112) on 08-29-2002, 08:35 AM:
Will, you beat me to the punch when you mentioned the need for a primer. That was the very question I planned to ask on this forum this morning. For purposes of clarification, by "non-ferrous" do you mean parts other than the iron castings? In other words, I'm trying to figure out what type of primer I will need to use for the casting that I will paint with the Hammerite white radiator paint that Bernard suggested. I'm guessing that it is iron. I'm assuming that the covers are also iron?
By the way Barry, your XL looks almost as rough as my Standard. Maybe I can help you rebuild it someday. I'm getting real good at taking things apart. I'll just need to have somebody around to tell me where all those parts go when it's time to reassemble! 
Actually, I'm finding that the whole system of gears and shafts makes a lot of sense. I'm learning a great deal during the process. I appreciate everybody's help and direction.
Posted by Barry Floyd (Member # 385) on 08-29-2002, 09:13 AM:
OK Randy.... you can help me rebuild it. You've got from now until April 4th, 2003. It has to work that night no matter what!!------------------
Barry Floyd
Floyd Entertainment Group
Lebanon, Tennessee
Stardust Drive-In Theatre
Watertown, Tennessee
Posted by Randy Loy (Member # 112) on 08-29-2002, 12:01 PM:
Okay Barry. I'll also bring along our Simplex SPS portable in case on opening night we can't figure out what to do with all the parts left over from your XL. 
Posted by Barry Floyd (Member # 385) on 08-29-2002, 01:16 PM:
If that doesn't work, you can help me carry the Brenkert in the lobby up the stairs to the booth!
Posted by John Schulien (Member # 215) on 08-29-2002, 01:27 PM:
Whenever I dismantle something as complex as a projector, I clear my 3x8 foot workbench, and cover it with a large piece of butcher paper. Then, each time I remove a part, I set it down on the paper, write down, on the paper next to the part, exactly what it is and where it goes, and draw a square around the description and part. I try and keep related parts grouped together. That way I have no problem putting things back together.
Posted by Richard Fowler (Member # 893) on 08-29-2002, 05:16 PM:
Our shop tech usually works on 4 to 6 machines at a time on one bench with all the parts separated by plastic tote bins for each machine.....but then again he has been doing this for 22 years 
Richard Fowler
TVP-Theatre & Video Products Inc. www.tvpmiami.com
Posted by Dick Prather (Member # 1136) on 08-30-2002, 12:39 AM:
I like to put the same parts back in the same machine. The machines seem to work better that way or at least I have had fewer problems using that method. I use some used stainless steel cooking pans for all the used parts as I remove them from each machine. The pans have handles and can be moved around very quickly and are easy to clean. One pan for each machine. I note the serial number on each pan and can now clean several main frames to get them ready. The process is probably slower then most but I like quality over quanity. It has worked for me for the last 15+ years. Unless the machine has been abused they look almost new after rebuilding.
Posted by William Hooper (Member # 71) on 08-30-2002, 12:48 AM:
If it's something with billions of parts like a theater organ or automobile, I like those clear flat K-Mart/Wal-Mart plastic fishing lure boxes that are about 14" x 9" x 2" with movable plastic dividers to adjust the sizes of the compartments. Each compartment can be labelled as to what that goofy little bent brass washer or whatever came from. When you come back to it after X amount of time, there's still no problem as to identifying what's what.They're also great for organizing & storing the enormous store of general screws, bolts, washers, electrical crimp connectors, etc. kept on the shelves for general use. Plus, if you need to take the collection of various stainless bolts & washers somewhere, just grab those boxes & go.
Posted by Bernard Tonks (Member # 809) on 08-30-2002, 05:31 AM:
Will wrote,
quote:
When using zinc primers, only a very light coat is needed. Also pay strong attention to your brand of paint's instructions. Many of todays paints are not meant for numerous coats as they might not be able to vapor vent and will not cure! Also, if your manufacturer says to wait a given period of time between coats, then do it...or unwanted things can happen!
Good points. I did my painting during a hot spell when the climate was around 80 f. I seem to remember that the Hammerite Enamel radiator white gloss dried within 30 minutes, I allowed one hour then did the 2nd coat, and the same for the 3rd coat. If you leave any coating longer than two hours, you then have to wait six weeks until you can commence painting again because of curing! That will give Randy some idea until he can read the Hammerite instructions for himself.
Posted by Randy Loy (Member # 112) on 08-30-2002, 02:16 PM:
Since Bernard provided a link for MASTERCHEM, the supplier of Hammerite paint here on this side of the pond, I was able to check out their website and give them a call to find out who might be a local retailer for them in my area. They gave me a number of suggestions, my local True Value hardware store for one, and even gave me the phone number of a company that can ship me the products I need via UPS. Thanks Bernard! Hammerite it will be!!!
Posted by Will Kutler (Member # 770) on 08-30-2002, 04:04 PM:
Randy...Non-ferrous....non iron parts such as aluminum and the die-cast "pot-metal" parts such as the projector housings/doors.
Another good thing to do would be to prep your parts with an auto-body prep/etchant such as Jasco or Dupont. Really be careful with this stuff as it is a very light sulfuric acid soulution that does smell.
As for primers on ferrous parts...you may want to try an etchant primer.
Another good point to try is once you start buying your paints...stick with the same brands. Do not mix different brands of primers and paints, otherwise you do stand the risk of funny things happening.
Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 08-30-2002, 04:29 PM:
Richard,
I did rebuilds the same way your tech does them. I striped down 6 or more machines at once but also labeled the plastic bins with the main casting S/N. This way the parts went back to the same machine. I also used a dunk strip place so I didn't have to endure the long hours of paint stripping. If they were getting a Kelmar turrett the casting was cut for the turrett before the paint job. Before I refinished an alumnium casting of any sort I sprayed it with one coat of zinc oxide primer. Then I used an industrial Gray Hammertone finish that had to be baked on for the paint to cure. This was a VERY durable finish and was as shiny as a new baby's butt when it came out of the oven. The paint was in fact made by Durable Coatings in Chicago and the Zinc Oxide was juat an aircraft type primer. The primer was more expensive per gallon than the Hammertone was.
Mark