I am growing quite fond of them because they are factory designed to scan the SDDS tracks of the film for cues, and not in the picture area. Again, kudos for that one too!My theory was to set each automation into "interlock mode", but assign each screen a different sync number. That way the automation would *think* it is performing an interlock on every screen, but of course there would be no second projector running with it. I tried this on one machine, but got an error from the automation as it shut down right after the automation read the cue and opened the douser.
So has anyone here done this with a CNA-150 automation? I know there is a restriction of having 9 interlocks going on simultaneously, but in a 9 or less plex this should work fine.
Never actually tried to get the CNA's to work this way, I've always just stuck with the show logic, and drummed it into the operators. However, I wander if a 'wait cue x ' command, right at the start would do it?
quote:
"However, I wander if a 'wait cue x ' command, right at the start would do it?"
This is the first time I have had the chance to play with the CNA series of automations. Can the CNA-150 do this? I assume that works similar to a CA21's "delay" line?
I went straight from Cinemation to CNA!
I've never done a CNA150, we only use the CNA200, but I doubt they are radically different. Unless I'm misunderstanding the 'wait cue' command, then you should be able to achieve this.
Ken, if you REALLY program the CNA series, by over-riding what if I remember right is called show logic, you can make them do anything they are wired to do, it just gets more complex from a programming and cueing point of view.
In My booth we use the CPA-10, the ancester of the CNA series. In "normal" mode, one print for each projector, a cue is placed at the tail end of the leader to open the douser. In interlock mode a second cue foil placed prior the cue at the tail end of the leader is necessary to initial show logic. And is important to set each automation for each interloking loop with the same sync. number and each projectors with different ID number. I've experienced the same problem with two CPA-10 they stop without reasons durring the show. the only cure was to exchange the entire automation in one console.
Sorry my English is really Bad, but I hope that you're understand me..
Sincerly,
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Jean-Michel Grin - Europlex Cinemas (Switzerland)
Why in the world people design automations without a start cue is just insane! This is the one feature that almost everyone I bump into or work with wants (or appreciates if they already have automations that have it).
Now I would welcome a "default countdown". The idea being that the projector motor will run until it hits the start cue, then 7 seconds from that point (which should be user adjustable) the douser will open and the show begins. However if after X number of seconds after the START button is pressed it does not see a start cue, it will automatically proceed with the show start sequence. Such a feature would be nice on the higher end automations out there, as that way if a cue missed on a timer start, the show would still run...just 30 or 60 seconds late (again, whatever the user set the default timer to). Of course, the xenon should never strike either until the start cue is read. No need to blast the xenon on the changeover while the leader runs down.
quote:
Ken, I know the CNA-150 can have it's start sequence timer set to any number I desire, but that is still not a "start cue". Doing that will still require that the operator thread to a certain frame on the leader....
I understand what you are referring to. I was simply saying that you can change the delay if you want to.
quote:
Of course, the xenon should never strike either until the start cue is read. No need to blast the xenon on the changeover while the leader runs down.
I dissagree. Some times it may take a while for the lamp to strike and the arc to become stable. I don't know about you, but I want to make sure that the bulb is lit and producing steady light well before the dowswer opens.
We do this all the time with the CNA-200's because of the endless loop. I believe the 150's ar the same. THe cue on the leader call waiting for cue zereo, and as for the SYNC mode. Call that sync loop zereo and that doesn't even need to be up on the main screen. If this does'nt work let me know and I'll check it this week. Once we have it programed we never change it so I'm going off of memory.
Alan
Pat
Reminder: this is the CNA-150.
Waiting for cue zereo starts the sequence after that cue is read or at the time the cue is read. So you are running it just like interlock but you are only running the 1 projector. We use this at all of our location using both CNA's and Eprads Ultimations. It is very helpful with the endless loops as you don't know where they will stop.
I think if you add 'wait for cue 0' right at the start you will achieve what you are looking for.
Thinking about it, I can totally see where you are coming from. It's much the same as we 'real cinema' guys would look for a specific frame on the leader when we start the show.
I may still be missing something here, but I don't see how this applies to the CNA-150 model. Anyone who has done this with the CNA-150 please post the specific buttons you had to press and in what order to make this work so there is no more confusion.
Just so no one else will use this phrase, there is no button or control on the automation labeled "wait for cue zero". If there is, I must be going blind and the manual doesn't say anything about it. Upon looking at the CNA-200 manual (page 48 of the paper manual/52 of the pdf) there IS something called a "wait cue". I am certain this is what you fellas are talking about, but again that is ONLY on the CNA-200. I am working with CNA-150s here.
Damnit, this theater should have just bought CA21s. How aggravating. Anyone want to buy some CNA-150s?
The CNA-150 has a built-in 7-second delay for C/O Open and Sound-to-Film (that delay is programmable in "Supervisory"). That's the most common programming I've seen that imitates the functions of most previous automations. Most programs I've seen only use cues 1, 2, 3, etc, with Cue 0 reserved for sync or continuous loop operation.
Make the Sync Loop -0-, which tells the system it is NOT in an interlock group with other projectors. Turn the SYNC switch ON and you will get the operation you want. Until Cue 0 is detected, the only thing that should happen is projector and lamp on. Once Cue 0 is detected then the show start sequence happens with that 7-second delay built in. Sync function is still available by changing the Sync Loop number.
We've replaced a few CA21's, but what happened to them I couldn't tell you. The theatre bought pretty nice automation systems and I think you'll find the 150 does about everything you're looking for. It's the CNA-200 that truly compares to the Australian-made CA21.
Hope that helps you,
Pat
quote:
"Make the Sync Loop -0-, which tells the system it is NOT in an interlock group with other projectors. Turn the SYNC switch ON and you will get the operation you want."
Ok, now that explanation makes sense. I will try it out later today. Thanks!
From the sounds of it, the CNA-200 is the machine I would be truly satisfied with. The CNA-150 will suffice if indeed the start cue works as you say it should, but that still doesn't give me automated fader control without having to do into the processors and "rig things". I assume the CNA-200 has this feature?By the way, although I am adamantly against using any of the "cue learn" features on these automations for the potential of disaster when prints or trailers are changed, I do see a potential use for it when running video (since I can't put cues on the tape). Is there an easy way to tell the automation at X time and X time and X time do these commands? I think it is possible to manually type in those times via a computer hookup, but is it possible to do it right on the automation units themselves? (The idea of course is to hit PLAY on the vcr at the same time as hitting START on the automation with the failsafes disabled. In theory this would allow the automation to count down to bring up the house lights and switch back to non-sync and so forth.)
Never used one but it sounds trick!
Remote Volume Control is an option on the CNA-200's, currently not on the 150 or 100. The 150 would be the next to get the capability but the market (such as it is) hasn't required it.
The 150 is a "mid line" package that was designed around Regal Cinemas requirements, though we certainly package them for other customers as well. We were coupling them with a digitally controlled dimmer that was actually a device on the automation's local network. A controller interfaces to power modules (up to four circuits)which handle the lighting load. That (QDC-series) digital dimmer works with either the 150 or 200. Any of the CineNet systems work with standard dimmers.
RE: "Cue Learn". I've found this is a "love it or hate it" feature. While I understand Brad's outlook, I have operators that don't put cues on the film at all -- they run a memorized program full time. They watch the show on the first run, inputting cues where required, and then run "learned" after that. The memorized cue times can always be adjusted if your first cue input is a little off. As long as a good projectionist threads up pretty close to the same place on the countdown leader, the shows run exactly the same each time with no cue tape problems. I have a couple of circuits that do that in SE Asia as well. They have less trouble doing that than remembering to "learn" a new program the first time a new movie runs.
As for a "trade-up" program, something can usually be worked out, depending on the dealer and how old these systems are. Since the system is modular, you'd just be replacing the controller section -- the termination boards that "talk" to the outside world are the same for all the CineNet systems.
Have a great rest-of-the-weekend...
PMoore
The theater these are in does have the digitally controlled dimmer, which is very convenient for fine tuning light levels. Kudos on that one!
I forget the model of the cue detectors, but they are the standard "stock" failsafes that are usually installed with these automations and according to the staff has NEVER missed a cue. I find it far more time consuming to manually cue the program, and potentially edit it if the cue input isn't done at the correct moment. Plus, if the cue detectors don't miss, who needs it? I am growing quite fond of them because they are factory designed to scan the SDDS tracks of the film for cues, and not in the picture area. Again, kudos for that one too!
Still in regards to the timed cues, can you address my questions on it above? I am going to end up using it with some video shows where the timed cues will be handy.
In addition to answering my queries in regards to timed cues above, it seems there is a flaw in your advice via the "sync loop 0 / sync on" mode.
First show of the day...all works perfect.
Second show of the day...all works perfect, BUT the status panels never say when the film has stopped. The green run light just stays lit even after the show is over. Upon inspecting the projector, the projector and lamphouse have done a normal shutdown, but the automation says "RUNNING" and has "cue 4" displayed where there is no such things as cue 3.
Here is the show programming:
CUE 0 - SR / MID1
CUE 1 - DIGITAL / DOWN
CUE 2 - DIGITAL / MID2
CUE 3 - NON-SYNC / UP / SHOW END
Any ideas? The only way to clear it so that another show can be ran is to press STOP then CUE INPUT.
Pat? Rick? Brian? Hello?
)
I have tried and two other people have tried running programs, both in sync loop 0 and on other sync loop numbers and have not had any problems as long as there have been no other units on the same sync loop number. The problem maybe a bug in an older software revesion, could you tell me what version software is running.
Rick
quote:
" I know you are not actually syncing here, but what happens when the last show of the day drops? Then do they all go back to 0? My guess is that they would."
You are indeed correct Ken. I had the booth intentionally left powered on and nothing touched for the final round and as soon as the last projector dropped, all of them stopped "running".
I am going to go through all of the units tomorrow and make sure they are assigned properly. I forgot to get the software version off of them today. I'll do that tomorrow.
Help, please, someone? 
Rather than quoting what was said, let's just say this did not make people happy and I have them running that screen completely manual now. But that's not all, now another unit is randomly missing cues as of yesterday.
Pat, Rick, whoever...something has got to be done as this theater has had constant problems ever since it opened. In speaking to the manager and projectionist that has been there from the opening, not one day has gone by where all of the automations have worked properly. These are only 1 year old. What is this saying about the product??? Is this just a bad batch of lemons and the rest of the CNA line of automations are reliable, or does this sort of nonsense happen with all of these automations? Help me out here. This needs to be remedied, and after what happened tonight, this needs to be remedied immediately. What can and will Strong do to back their product and fix this situation?
I experienced the same problem with two projectors in Interlock mode. One of the CPA-10 stopped 3 time the show during the feature
I'm disapointed of theses automation from Strong for theses sporadic malfunction.
In hope that you can find a solution
Good luck !
sincerly yours,
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Jean-Michel Grin - Europlex Cinemas (Switzerland)
If these issues cannot be addressed and resolved within a reasonable time frame, I am ready to throw in the towel on the CNA line of automations, get the money refunded and buy CA-21s. The CA-21s will do everything this theater needs with reliability, and if needed, support from Pennywise.
The problems you describe are consistent with having multiple units on the same sync ID number or having the sync wires reversed or not properly terminated somewhere in the loop. The sync number issue is not only on the automations but also on the status boxes. All items connected to the loop have to have different syn ID numbers. You can trouble shoot it by disconnecting the units from the sync lines and seeing if the problems goes away, if so you have identified the problem. The current version of software is 3.080 and that might explain why we can’t recreate your starting in interlock problem at the office, the dealer you bought the automations from should be able to get you the upgrade on the software. Your interlock problems could also be related to the sync wiring or ID issue.
As far as timers and cue wait instruction goes, someone didn’t purchase the correct automation for their application. The CNA-200 is what you need to get the features you require, the CNA-150 is a lower cost unit and was not designed to give the functionality you are looking for, a little bit of research or a phone call before the purchase of the units would have been prudent.
Hope I have helped
Rick
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--Sean McKinnon
Manager
Loews Cineplex Entertainment
Freshpond Mall 10
Cambridge, Mass
<A HREF="http://www.enjoytheshow.com" TARGET=_blank>www.enjoytheshow.com</A>
Strong is sending me current firmware. Hopefully that will fix it, as I have already checked the ID numbers of each projector and status panel and that isn't the problem.
I know that on the CNA 100 units there is a dip switch setting for run to end of show as opposed to running for a preset time from the last cue then turning off, ehether or not the film had run out of the projector. I know of a house where this was not in use and if the automation was stopped before the programmed time had elapsed from the end cue, it would stay looking for the cue after the end cue until they pressed start again. I guess part of the logic is that the lack of presence is read as a cue after the "end cue." Once start was pressed, the remaining time ran off and it went to cue 0. changing the dip switch for run to end of show eliminated the problem.
Another thought, what would happen if you took the projector out of sync mode between shows for a moment and then put it back in.
I have also taken the units out of sync mode to see if that was causing the random glitching. If anything, it got worse. Last night was automation hell night. Had a machine stop dead in the middle of the movie. Had another that was doing all sorts of weird things, so the projectionist was running it manually...but it still decided to switch to non-sync during the movie. LOTS of money in refunds just last night, but this has been happening since the theater opened.
I am patiently waiting the new firmware hoping it will solve these problems. I would expect it to arrive the first part of this week.
When it stops, does it tell you anything or does it simply stop?
When it stops or something goes screwy like a douser closing or sound changing to non-sync, there is no warning. The automation just says "start in 00:00" or "running".
You better let me know where this theatre is. This thread started with "I'd like to have this start cue ability". Now you've had "automation hell night" and it sounds like nothing's ever worked right in the theatre. Certainly we at Strong would have heard something about this theatre by now. There are a LOT (I mean thousands) of CineNet systems running along just fine out there so if you've got a place where there are troubles, we'd like to know about it.
Thanks,
Pat