This is topic 2004 50th Anniversary of Fox Cinemascope in forum Film Handlers' Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.
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Posted by Ben Wales (Member # 92) on 09-03-2002, 05:37 PM:
Next year will see the 50th birthday of the original 20th Century Fox Cinemascope process.I am interested to learn if there is any planned events to mark this stage in Cinema history and are there any prints "The Robe" in 4 track Mag still suriving?
Posted by Ben Wales (Member # 92) on 09-03-2002, 05:39 PM:
should have been 2003 and not 2004!
Posted by Peter Kerchinsky (Member # 1098) on 09-04-2002, 04:35 AM:
Ben
We recently ran a newly struck print of THE ROBE and HOW TO MARRY A MILLIONAIRE at the Seattle Art Museum, but both prints were mono. They were done for a tribute to Otto Lang, now a local, so prints do exist.
I did not run THE ROBE but did run MILLIONAIRE and it looked great, complete with STREET SCENE.
I'm not sure where these prints came from, assuming Fox archives.
CinemaScope is really 50. My I am getting old because I remember seeing THE ROBE first run at the RKO Keith's Memorial in Boston. I must have been 10!
Posted by Hillary Charles (Member # 769) on 09-04-2002, 05:20 AM:
It's a shame those are in mono. The laserdisc to HOW TO MARRY A MILLIONAIRE has directional sound, so the tracks must exist somewhere. Good to know they look good at least.
Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 09-04-2002, 07:28 AM:
Marty Hart's "American Widescreen Museum" CinemaScope section:
http://www.widescreenmuseum.com/widescreen/wingcs1.htm CinemaScope reference library:
http://www.widescreenmuseum.com/widescreen/cinemascoperef.htm
------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7525A
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: +1 585 477 5325 Cell: +1 585 781 4036 Fax: +1 585 722 7243
e-mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com
Web site: http://www.kodak.com/go/motion
Posted by Dick Vaughan (Member # 540) on 09-04-2002, 07:49 AM:
I've already e-mailed Fox archives in LA to see if they are producing any new prints of The Robe or any other scope titles for next year.
Haven't heard back yet.
We will of course be featuring the anniversary in next years Widescreen Weekend and at the Widescreen Conference in July 2003.
Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 09-04-2002, 08:04 AM:
Being anally pedantic (as usual), it's only really Fox's commercial exploitation of the process which is 50 years old. Henri Chrétien's 'Hypogonar' anamorphic lens was first successfully demonstrated in the late 1920s (1928 if memory serves me correctly).
Posted by Bernard Tonks (Member # 809) on 09-04-2002, 10:30 AM:
Although THE ROBE was premiered and run in CinemaScope 4 track magnetic stereo at the Odeon, Leicester Square, Fox fell out with their release circuit, CMA (Odeon/Gaumont) after refusing to install stereo equipment. At the time there were the three major circuits being, ODEON, ABC, GAUMONT. Fox then created what became known as the 4th CIRCUIT, comprising of smaller circuits like, ESSOLDO, GRANADA, and, INDEPENDENTS! After experiencing 3 strip Cinerama, I was rather disappointed with CinemaScope, as I saw THE ROBE at a small independent flea pit! Fortunately I was to change my mind when I visited one of the magnificent very large Granada theatres.
For those who don’t know, before THE ROBE there was in fact an introduction film in B+W academy ratio (within the anamorphic print) explaining CinemaScope. It would be great if Dick could have this on the print for his Bradford complex. I also used to enjoy the many CinemaScope 30 minute short subjects; the stereo sound was always very creative! We revised three of these at the Carlton Theatre, London as late as 1970; the Soho Square print manager had kept spare copies in his office. The prints were as new and not faded original 2.55 magnetic tracks only! I wonder if these same copies are still in existence last seen 30 years ago?
Strange for me at that time, as there was 4 track magnetic scope with a ratio of 2.55. Other studios had anamorphic prints with mono sound with a ratio of 2.35. such as Warner Bros. under the banner of WarnerScope. I also seem to remember that there was a batch of Fox B+W ‘B’ second feature scope releases under the banner of RegalScope.
Posted by Bill Gabel (Member # 1105) on 09-04-2002, 10:51 AM:
During that time Fox had CinemaScope prints in 4 Track Mag Stereo
and Mag Mono. That was for the theatre owner that could not buy the
full CinemaScope Stereo systems Fox was selling. They also had a
special high gain screen, but that was dropped from the specs.
So some mag prints from that time may be CinemaScope mono mag.That was a time when theatre owners had to choose many diffrent
projection systems (Cinerama, CinemaScope, Todd-AO, VistaVision...)
and stereo systems. So they had to find the best and most economic
system for their company. The big chain could buy anything, but the
little theatre owner had to find a system, he could afford. It
is just like when Dolby Stereo came out in the mid 70's.
Posted by Tim Reed (Member # 137) on 09-04-2002, 11:55 AM:
quote:
Henri Chrétien's 'Hypogonar' anamorphic lens was first successfully demonstrated in the late 1920s (1928 if memory serves me correctly).
Leo's right. Chrétien developed that lens in the late 20s and tried to present it to the film companies. No one listened. I have some video somewhere of a Scope promotion short (taped off the old AMC channel) that shows Darryl Zanuck boldly declaring, "I invented CinemaScope by myself!"
The funny thing about this is, when he says the words "by myself", he diverts his eyes and looks at the floor.
Posted by Steve Kraus (Member # 476) on 09-04-2002, 03:33 PM:
I believe the demonstrations and premiere engagements were done with an interlocked soundtrack and a full silent frame picture, thus 2.66 : 1.
Posted by Peter Kerchinsky (Member # 1098) on 09-04-2002, 09:32 PM:
Bernard
You mentioned the Fox Scope shorts. We ran 3 of them with the screenings at the art museum. Otto Lang had something to do with them, maybe producer?
Not sure of the titles, one was about an aircraft carrier, another on a train I believe in Switzerland...something Express and I think Land of the Bible, which I originally saw with THE ROBE back when.
All these prints were also newly struck.
Posted by Bernard Tonks (Member # 809) on 09-05-2002, 05:49 AM:
Peter, I must have seen every one of the scope shorts made, but I can only remember one title being “The Bulls Of Pamplona” as I kept the print on site until I left the cinema. I doubt if there will be any in the UK again, unless some place like the NFT or Pictureville, Bradford manages to track down a couple of titles for historical value showing. Were your newly struck prints magnetic?
Posted by Claude S. Ayakawa (Member # 1401) on 09-05-2002, 06:02 PM:
As a lover of classical music, I used to enjoy the CinemaScope shorts featuring The MGM Symphony Orchestra with Johnny Green and the 20th Century Fox Symphony Orchestra with Alfred at the helm. One short I remember is a long one with the Fox Orchestra of a complete performance of Haydn's Symphony No. 45 in F Sharp Minor-"The Farewell". There were excellent ducumentaries beside music and one of my favorites was "THE BATTLE AT GETTYSBURG" from MGM and it is included on the "GETTYSBURG" movie DVD.-Claude
Posted by Peter Kerchinsky (Member # 1098) on 09-06-2002, 01:22 AM:
Bernard
No, none of those prints we got were magnetic, only mono.
I noticed though on the leaders of each short were the words "Magnetic/Optical" so I assume they had mag prints made of these at one time. They all arrived in cardboard boxes from 20th Century Fox Film Archives.
Posted by Paul Linfesty (Member # 214) on 09-06-2002, 10:44 AM:
The TOOT WHISTLE PLUNK AND BOOM CinemaScope short (1953) that is being shown before SLEEPING BEAUTY at the El Capitan currently is in optical mono. I assume the original was mag 4-track only in the original 53 release, as Fox had not yet started offering Mag mono or optic mono prints of CinemaScope films. (This Disney short originally went out with Fox's HOW TO MARRY A MILLIONAIRE, also accompanied by a Coronation Day CinemaScope short. These were billed as the first two CinemaScope shorts.)
Posted by Claude S. Ayakawa (Member # 1401) on 09-06-2002, 01:24 PM:
"TOOT WHISTLE PLUNK & BOOM" was first released in mag and the stereo version can be seen and heard on the deluxe "FANTASIA" DVD box set.I read that "GRAND CANYON" was also scheduled to be shown with "SLEEPING BEAUTY" at the El Capitan. Was this also in mono? It was shown in mag stereo the last time I saw it with a 70mm print of "SLEEPING BEAUTY" in the seventies here in Honolulu.
-Claude
Posted by Paul Linfesty (Member # 214) on 09-06-2002, 03:03 PM:
Grand Canyon wasn't shown (or even on the schedule). The film release schedule was wrong.
Posted by Peter Kerchinsky (Member # 1098) on 09-08-2002, 04:49 AM:
I may be completely wrong on this, but I thought the first CinemaScope short was LAND OF THE BIBLE which was shown with THE ROBE in 1953?
Posted by Claude S. Ayakawa (Member # 1401) on 09-08-2002, 05:23 PM:
I first saw "THE ROBE" in 1953 at the now defunct Kuhio Theatre in Honolulu when they were the first theatre in Hawaii to install CinemaScope with four track mag sound. Because of "THE ROBE"'s two hour fifteen minute running time, I doubt very much if 20th Century Fox included a short subject except the special Movietone News edition about CinemaScope which ran only a few minutes. After the short, the screen went dark and a man's voice said "20th Century Fox and the management of this theatre takes great pleasure in presenting the first feature film in CinemaScope, "THE ROBE". The intro continues for a few more senonds about the wide screen process and concludes with "------ and now "THE ROBE" in CinemaScope"! After watching films in flat and mono up until that time, seeing a new concept in motion picture exhibition like CinemaScope was an unforgettable experience.-Claude
Posted by Paul Linfesty (Member # 214) on 09-08-2002, 05:43 PM:
The New York Times ads for "How to Marry a Millionaire" (at Brandt's Globe and Loew's State, BOTH a block from each other on Brodway) advertise the EXTRA! The Girst Great Shorts in CinemaScope...Walt Disney's Technicolor Cartoon "Toot, Whistle, Plunk and Boom" and 20th Century-Fox presents "The Coronation Parade" - Technicolor.
Posted by Peter Kerchinsky (Member # 1098) on 09-09-2002, 04:58 AM:
If memory serves, I saw TOOT, WHISTLE the first time in Scope with 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea at the Paramount in Newton Corner, just outside Boston. I'm having a problem thinking Disney would put a Scope short on another distribs feature. They may have handled it differently in certain parts of the country?
American Movie Classics had been running alot of Fox Movietone CinemaScope shorts a while back. but haven't seen any lately.
Posted by Claude S. Ayakawa (Member # 1401) on 09-09-2002, 01:00 PM:
Both "TOOT, WHISTLE, PLUNK & BOOM" and "20,000 LEAGUES UNDER THE SEA' are Disney pictures.-Claude
Posted by Paul Linfesty (Member # 214) on 09-09-2002, 01:25 PM:
Well, I have the ad from the NY Times advertising this short as showing with MILLIONAIRE, PLUS the DVD of Fantasia 2000 (which features the short) gives a world premiere date of November 10, 1953 for it (the exact same date Millionaire opened in NYC).Back in the "old" days, featurettes, shorts, cartoon, etc, would usually be booked seperately by the theatre, with no connections whatsoever to the main attraction. Same for second features (there were MANY instances of Disney pictures playing first-run with other studio's second features attached. And many a Disney feature played as the second half of a double bill with another studio's film advertised first. That's the way the theatre business worked in those days. There was a second-run theatre in Bakersfield that always advertised one or two Disney shorts with the regular release run of a long single feature attraction (in lieu of a second feature). I remember the T-L SEAL ISLAND playing with AIRPORT, for example. And DUMBO played as the second feature with PEPE at that theatre.