Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Where do you get trainging to be a projection engineer?

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Posted by Tim Turner (Member # 1109) on 09-08-2002, 12:23 PM:

The "Director of Projection" at my theather I beleive was fired, or "Will only do theater matinance work, and will never work in projection EVER agian" as my general manager no nicely quoted the
vice president of the company.
She had suggested that I try applying for that position, but I'd have to know everything about everythig there is to know about projectors and such, even more so than the Head Projectionist, which I admit I don't.

Where would I get that type of training? Obviously workig in projection for a number of years helps, and that I have done. But I'd still have to go far beyond the knowlege that I already have. As a "regular projectionist" (thats what I'd call myself) I've only been taught so much. For big technical problems, I'm just told to call the head projectionist or if the problem is really severe the Director of Projection. But how would I get that far?

Posted by Ken McFall (Member # 845) on 09-08-2002, 01:05 PM:

Well the first thing is be a GREAT projectionist, nothing beats hands on experience EVER! Most of the 'real' engineers I've known have all been projectionists so they know not only how the equipment works but how it's used. When you leave the booth after a repair its the guys who run the show's that have to cope .... respect for them will go a long way when you need support and help.

Much of the electronic equipment used today is not site repairable so a good working knowledge of the equipment is needed so you can isolate the defective board and replace as required. Panicing and replacing everything in sight may resolve the fault but all you end up with is a pile of suspect boards!!

Possibly the one skill that will win you more support and respect is being able to admit 'Sorry I don't know what the problem is' bullshit is a sure way to earn a reputaion and no support. Asking for help is no disgrace...... there is a lot of very valuable experience in projection rooms and only a fool would ignore it as a resource.

There is the other option which seems to be favoured by many of the circuits today.... suck up and kiss ass!! It's not what you know it's who you know. It'll get you there faster than s**t down a drain but you can bet it won't be a pleasant stay.

You've started well by asking the guys who know what's going on in the real world. Keep that in mind and one day they'll be asking you for advice and help.

Good luck.

Regards Ken.

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 09-08-2002, 01:14 PM:

A good grounding ine electrical and electronics (no pun intended)
A good understanding of mechanics
Understanding of basic accoustics
Patience of Job

Then go to Dolby school and any classes that each of the manufactures hold for there equipment

It takes years of learning to get started and then the learning really begins

Posted by Richard Fowler (Member # 893) on 09-08-2002, 01:33 PM:

The next Dolby school will be in Fort Lee New Jersey on October 21 to 24....the four day course is $550.00 ( they take credit cards ) which is well spent. Contact Ken Jacquart 415-645-5349 or Christy Hannon at 415-645-5113 regarding more information and to receive the registration form. There are also occaisional factory seminars...what type of equipment are you using?

Richard Fowler
TVP-Theatre & Video Products Inc. www.tvpmiami.com

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 09-08-2002, 01:38 PM:

quote:
"She had suggested that I try applying for that position, but I'd have to know everything about everythig there is to know about projectors and such..."

I know you don't mean this literally, but I would like to point it out anyway. No one knows everything. Scientists say the average human only uses 3-5% of his brain, but there are so many things to learn out there to reach such a status that your brain would probably explode if it was to absorb it "all". Anyone who tells you that you have to know everything, or worse someone who *thinks* he knows everything, doesn't. The good part is that there is always someone out there who DOES know the answer, and most of the time others are happy to help you out. All you have to do is ask around.

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 09-08-2002, 02:25 PM:

As much as 3% I didn't think it was that high from reading the newspapers political section

Posted by Tim Reed (Member # 137) on 09-08-2002, 06:12 PM:

quote:
I'd have to know everything about everythig there is to know about projectors and such

Tim, it's like anything else, you gotta like what you do. That will fuel the desire to learn. Best thing to do: read. Voraciously. Read every projection equipment operation and service manual you can lay your hands on. That's a good deal of it, you'd be surprised what's "in the books".

But, to build a proper foundation, you should learn some basic electronics (with lab) - learning to read schematic and wiring diagrams, et.al, will help you understand how things work, which guides you in troubleshooting. Learning about digital logic is also a plus.

Keeping a cool head under pressure is a good attribute to have, so just stay loose, none of it is rocket science. Most helpful of all is the ability to work well with people. And, as Ken notes, it's no biggie to step back and say "well, son of a gun, I've never seen that happen before!"

In most any outfit you work for, there will always be someone you can call for advice, if you get in over your head.

Good luck!

------------------
Better Projection Pays!

Posted by Ken Lackner (Member # 1002) on 09-08-2002, 08:09 PM:

Hmmmm....I was in the same boat about a year and a half ago. "Just how do I learn to become a projection tech?" Well, one thing I started doing as often as I could was follow my tech around and learn the things he does, both at my theater and others that he services. If you can make friends with your tech, it will certainly help. The best knowledge really comes from hands on work. (Unfortunately, some techs are not people persons, and do not like to teach. If that's the way your tech is, you're out of luck in that department.)

As Tim R. and Gordon have mentioned, a background in electronics is very helpful. That's why I'm getting an A.S. in Electronic Engineering Technology. I've seen job requirements for some service tech positions that say "Associate degree in electronics or equivalent electronics experience." If you've already got the knowledge and experience in that area, great! If not, start looking around at community colleges that offer such a degree. Also, get a book of basic electronics theory from your local bookstore. Learning how to read schematic diagrams and to logically troubleshoot systems are critical skills.

And, as others have said, go to Dolby School and any other training seminars that you can. Kodak and other companies provide various levels of projection training. I'm sure John P. can provide more info on that.

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 09-09-2002, 06:48 AM:

Tim Turner: Here's the link to Kodak ScreenCheck training. Most training sessions are in Culver City CA, a few hours drive north of you, and they have gone "on the road" when there are enough people registered in another city:
http://www.kodak.com/US/en/motion/screencheck/projTraining.shtml

------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7525A
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: +1 585 477 5325 Cell: +1 585 781 4036 Fax: +1 585 722 7243
e-mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com
Web site: http://www.kodak.com/go/motion

Posted by Peter Hall (Member # 695) on 09-09-2002, 11:51 AM:

Well, here's an odd one. I actually agree with your post, Ken..

"Possibly the one skill that will win you more support and respect is being able to admit 'Sorry I don't know what the problem is' bullshit is sure way to earn a reputaion and no support. Asking for help is no disgrace...... there is a lot of very valuable experience in projrily ection rooms and only a fool would ignore it as a resource."

I would add that PC skills and a good electromechanical skillbase is critical. Don't totally agree that long booth experience is the most valuable skill base - the talents required in rebuilding an intermittent or getting a theatre to sound right aren't necessarily related to those of keeping the booth clean and managing film movements. Both are equally vital skilsets, but very different..

Posted by Jeffry L. Johnson (Member # 453) on 09-11-2002, 12:18 PM:

Brad, do have references for your 3-5% claim?

I thought it was 10%.

Posted by Tim Turner (Member # 1109) on 09-11-2002, 12:30 PM:

I also heard it was 10%, but you got some really dumb people out there. Anyone dealing with customers at movie theaters know that.

Case 1:
"Huh, excuse me, can you tell me when the 8:00 showing of Bloodworks starts?"

Case 2:
Usher: "Ok this will be in the theater 5, 3rd one on the left"
Customer: "Oh, ok thank you"

20 min later

Customer: "This movie was supposed to start 20 mins ao! This is very unprofessional"
Usher: "Well it did start 20 mins ago, theater number 5 third one on the left, you went into number 7 fourth one on the right."

Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 09-11-2002, 12:34 PM:

Tim, in addition to the above comments, I'll give you my 2 cents worth.....it is basically this:

Plenty of hands-on training experience, lots of common sense, the ability to understand what your machines are supposed to be doing and how they do it, and really liking what you are doing!

Until John chimed in, I thought there was no school that teaches this stuff.

If you are thinking about being the "Man" to go to theatres as a tech and making a living at it, you learn it by "Hard Knocks" and screwing up, and learning from your mistakes.

If so, one thing that will really help....finding someone who has been in the field for a while that is willing to take the time, effort, and a little expense on their part to ship or provide you with good junk to play with so that you can gain this experience.

However, be advised that once this stuff gets into your blood, you have been "had" and there is no way out.

Posted by Pete Naples (Member # 761) on 09-11-2002, 12:45 PM:

My way in was not unsual.

Studied things like Physics, Tech Drawing, Mechanics, Electronics etc at High School (Neve been in a booth at this point)

Had a part time job in the booth at my local cinema, got really interested in it all, worked around a few different comapnies, learning different equipment and modus operandi, all the while reading, and sticking to the visiting engineer (it always seemed to be the same guy wherever I worked!)

Badgered said guy to get me a job for years, which eventually paid off. Even now I'm always learning, from equipment manuals, colleagues, courses by Dolby etc.

Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 09-12-2002, 01:03 AM:

Tim said in his post:

quote:
Customer: "This movie was supposed to start 20 mins ao! This is very unprofessional"
Usher: "Well it did start 20 mins ago, theater number 5 third one on the left, you went into number 7 fourth one on the right."

I wish I could have seen the reaction on the customer's face...

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 09-12-2002, 02:20 AM:

Jeffry, I've always heard 3-5% usage. Then after seeing Defending Your Life, it has become a bit of a joke. If the myth is that we use 10% of our brains, then heck I may still only be using 3-5% of mine.

Posted by Don Sneed (Member # 955) on 09-15-2002, 12:32 PM:

Hey Tim,

I hope you the best in your newly wanted career, Just as Ken posted, one of the best way to learn to be a tech is hands on/on the job training, I was very lucky to have a tech that would teach me this craft & allow me to travel with him theatre to theatre, although this took me two years to learn while I was still a projectionist, I worked at a three screen theatre & study all the self taught basic electronics books I could get my hands on while waiting for the reel change, I was also very lucky to start working as relive projectionist at several theatres learning various projection & sound equipment instead of being stuck at only one theatre, I copied any projection manuals I could find & learn those machines, consoles, & sound systems...your best bet is to learn basic electronics, by books or through a basic electronic course at a Jr. college ot tech school...this is a must !! If you learn the mechcanical of the projectors & their works, half is already done...electronics would be next..Learning power supplies, relays, resistors ect will be the way to do it, the rest cames with on hands & don't be afraid to tackel any problem, we all still learning new things everyday & I been doing tech work for 22 years...just remember it is only a machine & it can be fix !! If I come across a new problem or working on a piece of equipment I never seen before, believe me I will see that problem again over & over & will remember the fix !! It is a great feeling & a natural high when you do repair or do an install & see opening day & all the people just came out of the theatre, or to look at all the equipment & stand there thinking...I Did That !!! Good luck in learning, don't give up...it is a wonderful job....(or it is for me), plus you can make alot of money doing the thing you like to do....but one word of caution.....Your weekends, Holidays, & staying home with the family will never be the same...you will be always on call, always on the go, you get a call to repair one problem & then the projectionist hands you a list of things that needs fixing & your schedule or day is messed up from there !! In 22 years of service work I been home for Christmas 3-times, a theatre always have emergency problem somewhere, so planning a event, outing or whatever is almost impossible...at my new job I am always flying somewhere, in my old job I was always driving somewhere, plus all the heavy tools & test equipment you have to have with you get heavy as you get older..example is I carry a 65lbs tool boox, 75lbs of testing equipment (oscillscope, RTA, light meter, cables ect), 30lb R-2 unit, a 20lb computer bag with printer,15 lbs of clothes & a 18lb travel folding cart & at age 48 this is getting heavier & heavier to lug of stairs, I tried to lighten the load but cannot !! These are the disadvantage of being a theatre tech....but I wouldn't change if I had to do it all over again...Good luck !!!

Posted by Rick Long (Member # 213) on 09-16-2002, 12:01 AM:

Don pretty much covers all the advantages and disadvantages of being a tech. There is only one more thing to consider: do you have the human relaton skills to be a tech?

Can you listen, politely, through the conversation to pick out the pertinent facts and ignore those which don't apply to the problem?

Can you exercise the patience of Job while you convince the party on the other end of the line that you really do know what the problem is?

Can you transmit enough confidence to them to convince them that yes, they really are capable of fixing it (at least temporarily) themselves?

Can you take it in stride, when you find out they have lied to you about one of the things you clearly told them to check out?

Do you have an insatiable scientific curiostiy about why a system that should work, now doesn't?

Are you willing to accept and beleive that YOU TOO are human, and can make mistakes, and be able to go back to square one and look at the problem from another angle?

Are you able to take a philosopical approach to the problem, and not get (at least visibly) upset when you get the reverse Midas touch?

Reverse Midas touch - a condition that occurs from time to time in every technician. A condition in which everything you touch turns to shit.

Do you have a sense of humor?

If so, have a great career as a theatre tech.

Posted by Manny Knowles (Member # 1171) on 09-16-2002, 09:55 PM:

Tim:

How old are you? Just judging by your photograph you look very young. If so, then I would listen to Gordon and get the education. It wouldn't hurt to have a tech (or find one) who will give you some specific hands-on experience in cinema systems. But I think that a formal education will go a long way, too.

I never learned electricity (got shocked as a child) and so I am limited in that I am incapable of dealing with rectifiers. In that way, I will never be able to install on my own or repair "everything" until I get over my fear of electricity and get the necessary education in that area.

If you are still school-age then that should be your priority. Lord knows, there will be plenty of time for you to get wrapped up in work.

Then again, you may just LOOK very young. In which case, enjoy that while it lasts!

~Manny (not just another pretty face)

Posted by Don Sneed (Member # 955) on 09-17-2002, 08:29 AM:

Hey Manny, I can relate to that shock....whoooaaa weeeee I hate that when that happens!! I been doing tech work for 22-yrs & I still get shock....I try not to but it happens, sometimes DAMN That Hurts !! but you just go on & forget, try not to do that again, or you know not to touch that again...my worst was touching the motor control card (by acident) on a Christie AW-3 while the platter was on....Believe I Know Not To Do That Again !!!

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 09-17-2002, 10:44 AM:

Just don't let that shocking current go through any vital organ.

Even a few milliamperes can be lethal:
http://www.usbr.gov/power/data/fist/fist5~1/5~1_2.htm
http://www.princeton.edu/~ehs/labguide/sec-4.htm
http://web.mit.edu/8.02x/www/experiments/Note_on_safety.pdf
http://www.egr.msu.edu/classes/ece482/docs/safety.pdf

Posted by Tim Turner (Member # 1109) on 09-17-2002, 09:12 PM:

Thanks for the advice all of you, I haven't been saying much but I've been reading everything. I've been meaning to study electronics in college, but could never could make up my mind. But I do understand that a strong knowlege in that is a must for this profession. I don't nessasarily see being a tech all that hard, just something I have to learn. Many of the techs I've seen usually have simple solutions to most things its just that I never knew about it!
Theres this one guy that we call when our own tech is just plain out of ideas that works outside of the company. I hear he gets payed around $40/hr and charges a minimum of 2 hours right off the bat. He comes in a fixes most thing in about 5 min, and leaves. But once I asked him how he fixed a few things and he told me. It seemed like it was easy at least by the way he explained it. Acutally he seemed like he didn't want to tell me at first, but after a few moments of my nagging he eventually explained it. I may have to learn electronics, but there was nothing I'd consider to be technally hard about it.

Manny, I know I look around 16 years old in that picture, which is about 8 or 9 months old. But I'm actually almost 24 (got 3 more months to go).

The only thing I'm really worried about is the disadvantages, that Don mentioned. Just from watching and knowing the former tech here and even the lead projectionist here, I know that sometimes that guy just wants to scream! Ultra Star has 9 theaters here in San Diego. And just one guy has to take care of all of them. Everytime I talk to him he's always saying something like, "I haven't slept since thursday, I just came from 2 other theatres and I have 3 more have after this one!".
One thing he always complained about was that coroprate never gave him enough money for the things he needed (tools/projector parts etc.) to do the job. Yet they pressured him to fix everything. How do you get around that?

The problem here is that the regular projectionist don't get any formal training. For some reason they are just taught to thread up, and control the volume, but if something bad happens all they have to do is call the lead projectionist. One of the first problems I wanted to learn to fix when I got in the booth was to change a Xenon lamp. But noone would teach me. The manager just said "...don't worry about that, just let the lead projectionist take of it... because its really dangerous and you could get hurt". I told him off about it, saying that "There are no monkeys in the booth, we are all adults here. If you tell me that if I play around with a lamp, and not pay attention while installing it, I could seriously injure or kill myself, you better freaking beleive I'm going to handle it the right way!.... Because it makes no sense to cancel a show(s) and call the lead projectionist or a tech to come and fix it if you have a projectionist standing right there!"
If the regular projectionist were actually taught how to do things then it would be alot easier on the tech guys and better for the theaters. But I guess this way is better just to keep paying the projectionist the loweest they possible can!

Posted by Ken McFall (Member # 845) on 09-18-2002, 04:17 PM:

Well Peter, makes a real change so for that I'll say thank's...

We hardly ever agree and doubt it'll happen again soon so I'll savour the moment....... there it's passed!!