Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Sound Problems

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Posted by Mathew Molloy (Member # 666) on 10-02-2002, 01:00 PM:

At one of our theatres they're running a b/w mono print (Beauty & The Beast) with an LED reader. They also have a b/w stereo (dolby A? Ultrastereo?- definately not SR) print of the re-release of Metropolis.

The problem they're having is that the trailers sound great (in SR) but the sound on the mono feature, I'm told, is muddy and the stereo feature is scratchy and distorted. They've tried running them in three different formats; mono,A,SR, with obviously no better results.

We ran them at my theatre with the LED reader and I had no problems. The mono print sounded great and the Stereo print, was ok. We tried it in SR first but there was a 'ticking' in the left channel. It was ok in A but the quality of the recording sounds poor.

Any thoughts on why his SR trailers sound great but the mono & Dolby A B/W features sound like crap?

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 10-02-2002, 01:49 PM:

I assume this is Cocteau's 1946 "La Belle et la bete"? Is the B&B mono track a modern bilateral track? Or was it unilateral (one line of modulation down the center) or even variable density?

For the "Metropolis" print with the left channel "ticking" sound in SR -- is there any repeating abrasion of the film in the track area? Is the track positioned properly on the print (centerline 0.243 inches or 6.17 mm from the reference edge of the print)?

I assume both prints are silver image for both picture and sound?

------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7525A
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Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 10-02-2002, 02:42 PM:

Just to add to the discussion: what's the issue with density tracks and LED readers? I remember some discussion about this, but recently ran an IB Tech print with a density track on a machine with a reverse-scan reader and it sounded fine in format 01 on the CP500. Is the issue only with (non-IB) color prints with density tracks? Or am I missing something?

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 10-02-2002, 04:00 PM:

The only problem was there were some red dye only variable density prints in the 40's

Posted by Mathew Molloy (Member # 666) on 10-02-2002, 05:16 PM:

Both prints are bilateral, and the Beauty & The Beast is a reissue of Cocteau's 1946 "La Belle et la bete". B&B sounds great here but not at the theatre it's playing at. Metropolis is 'allright' here but again, not at the theatre it will be showing.

The theatre it's showing at just had both an A & B chain alignment this morning and the problems persist. Again, the trailers sound terrific.

(BTW the soundtrack on Metropolis only sounded allright in Mono as well. - It sounds like it's taken from an old recording and the 'ticking' only occured in SR and the distributer does not know if the print is SR or not...naturally. Also the sound didn't appear to be steered correctly in SR)

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 10-02-2002, 05:28 PM:

Phasing problem? Tracks not in correct lateral position?

Posted by Steve Kraus (Member # 476) on 10-02-2002, 08:11 PM:

I screened "Metropolis" in SR (this is a new recording) with no complaint or comment and later heard the very same print in a theatre and it sounded fine. (I didn't visit the booth but I clearly labeled it so presume it was run in SR.)

I also ran Beauty & the Beast and don't recall any problems. My notes say 1.37 / mono / B&W. I have Kelmar LED reverse scan ( & basement readers).

Posted by Martin Brooks (Member # 1269) on 10-02-2002, 08:17 PM:

I saw Metropolis at the Ziegfeld in NYC a few weeks back and the sound was fine. No problems at all.

Posted by Mathew Molloy (Member # 666) on 10-03-2002, 01:28 AM:

Thanks guys. I'm suspect about the Metropolis print and will be taking a closer look at it tomorrow to check for damage. However, I was running it on a Norelco the other day and the alignment of the soundtrack on the print looked fine at the soundhead.

John, I like your suggestion of checking the phasing...I'll let them know about that one.

A new twist has arisin...the theatre playing both these films is currently running another mono print (Sidharta) but this one is color. It sounds great, I'm told.