Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: "exit" light

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Posted by Antonio Marcheselli (Member # 373) on 10-18-2002, 06:34 AM:

Hi everyone.

We have the theater full of VERY annoying "exit" light next to the screen. I wonder if law says that that light should be just "visible" or if a minimum light power is needed.
At my old theater the "exit" light was just "visible", no light was projected on the screen.
What is the law in USA? Is there someone that live in UE?

Bye
Antonio

Posted by Dick Vaughan (Member # 540) on 10-18-2002, 08:32 AM:

Antonio

I am afraid there is no European standard and the level of lighting is often decided upon by individual planning officers and licensing authorities.

When we built Pictureville Cinema we had three opinions from three different council offiers in the space of two days!

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 10-18-2002, 11:39 AM:

I end to have used a glowin the dark radioactive exit sign that is CSA/UL approved that requires no power and doesn't wash out screens
I believe a company called LumaCell distributes them now
You do have to sign a waiver to buythem and agree to return them to a nuclear disposal site when you get rid of them

Posted by Frank Angel (Member # 248) on 10-18-2002, 11:39 AM:

Here's my take on regs that are unreasonable and which ruin presentation -- ignore them. If in the course of human history someone, sometime comes from a regulatory agency to my theatre and says, hey, your exit lights don't meet our brightness standard, then I'll do something about them. Until then, I rely on inertia and incompetence on the part of the bureaucratic hump-busters to never come near my theatre. When there are REAL safety issues, these guys never show up to force management to correct them, so I take my cue from that. I'll always bet on the general inefficiency of such govenment inspection departments.

That being said, safety is always a major concern of mine and I will correct REAL problems wherever I see them and I don't need some bureaucratic civil servant to tell me about it.

As for your EXIT signs Antonio, If they are the type that have incandescant bulbs, just replace the bulbs with smaller wattage sizes. If they are the red LED types, Rosco makes a neutral filter gel. Just by a few sheets of that stuff and cut pieces to fit exactly over the face of the sign. It might take more than one piece. This will reduce the light enough so as not to compromise the screen image, yet they will still be bright enough for anyone to see.

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 10-18-2002, 01:13 PM:

Exit signs need to be bright enough to be clearly seen in the event of smoke and fire. Don't compromise safety!

But nothing says they need to shine ON the screen. In most cases, a simple shield or baffle will keep their light off the screen, without compromising safety:
http://www.kodak.com/US/en/motion/newsletters/pytlak/dec99.shtml

------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7525A
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: +1 585 477 5325 Cell: +1 585 781 4036 Fax: +1 585 722 7243
e-mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com
Web site: http://www.kodak.com/go/motion

Posted by Jesse Skeen (Member # 586) on 10-18-2002, 01:45 PM:

I still get annoyed by ones that are ridiculously bright enough to be constantly noticed even if they don't shine right on the screen. I've seen a few theatres that have these which I no longer go to.

Posted by Michael Schaffer (Member # 1204) on 10-18-2002, 02:06 PM:

It seems to be a general rule that there has to be an exit light in the direction the audience is facing. In Germany, the law says there has to be 1 candela on the ground below the exit sign. You will probably be able to get information on Italian regulations somewhere on the internet or from the fire department. Is there a fire department in Florence

?
Michael

Posted by Peter Hall (Member # 695) on 10-20-2002, 10:02 AM:

Do you use the white "running man" on green background signs ? If so these are European standard and are a pain for use in cinemas. Chloride and a copple of other complanies here make good solutions - http://www.chloridesys.com/cs_exits.html. The link is to the US site but they make either edge lit signs (we use black background, green man and blue LEDs) or a standard box with a black background / green man. This doesn't have European approval but is OK with most fire officers, and is a hell of a lot better than puting gel in an old sign. For gods sake don't ignore the regs - your local authority must OK the final solution, otherwise the person altering the sign could be liable if injury resulted..

Posted by Antonio Marcheselli (Member # 373) on 10-20-2002, 07:07 PM:

In my theater during emergency the ceiling light are connected to an UPS so we have just the "exit" light to tell the customers where the exit are. I believe that (since in case of no power the theater is fully lighted) the exit has just to be "visible", nothing more. Our are actually projecting a large amount of light on the screen.

Yes, we have the green man lights!

Bye
Antonio

Posted by Shaun Flichel (Member # 1435) on 10-21-2002, 05:12 PM:

Yup, a baffle or some sort of shroud should be ok, as long as patrons can see the sign from any part of the theatre, even if this shroud has to be 1 foot long with a little curve to it, just enough to stop it from hitting the screen and the patrons can still see it.

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 10-21-2002, 05:33 PM:

In Canada at least a baffle is definitly not OK as that is making a modification to a ULC/CSA approved device that was approved with specific mounting instructions

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 10-21-2002, 08:23 PM:

Even if the baffle/shield is attached to the wall rather than the fixture? The spirit of the law should be safety.

Posted by Daryl C. W. O'Shea (Member # 1303) on 10-21-2002, 09:07 PM:

I guess they figure if you can't see it from behind the screen, the buggers stealing your speakers might not be able to get out.

Gord, do you know if we're allowed to angle the whole fixture away from the screen, or do they have to be flush with the wall (say, even if there was solid struture behind the angled sign)?

Posted by Daniel Boisson (Member # 1027) on 10-21-2002, 10:49 PM:

I know it doesn't look that good, but at my old theatre, I simply spray painted some cardboard and duct taped it to the side of the exit sign. Worked perfectly.

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3% Body Fat. 1% Brain Activity.

...A projectionist without a theatre...

Posted by Peter Hall (Member # 695) on 10-23-2002, 01:06 PM:

We've installed baffles (300mm x 300mm shelves, rotated 90 degrees) to stop the green lite hitting the screen. This works, but yes the sign is still a bloody annoying distraction. BTW, I've seem lots of theatres here where the green on white men are gelled with with green to cut down the light - this is silly. It does cut down the light but reduces the contrast (theoretically this makes then entire box green). Surely if gelling you should use a complimentary colour gel, i.e. purple - the green should become black and the white voilet..

Posted by Frank Angel (Member # 248) on 10-24-2002, 01:34 PM:

There's a company that makes "glo-in-the-dark" exit signs. They are to be used in areas that have constant lighting, like common hallways. They are nothing more than sheets of plastic the size of a standard exit sign but the plastic is impregnated with radium. The idea is, normally they are plainly visible, red letters on greenish white background. However, in an emergency, the background glows quite brightly for over an hour providing enough light to still see the sign and also to satisfy any codes regulating exit sign brightness. Obviously these would be useless in a theatre as they wouldn't be activated being in the dark for hours, but I bring it up because if these glo-signs provide adaquate visibility to meet NYC code, yet they are nowhere near as bright as powered exit signs. Clearly the powered lights are producing a lot more light than is necessary to meet code. Unless the code is illogical in that it accepts the low light level of the glo material, but if it is a powered sign, the levels have to be higher. Illogical codes are certainly possible; it's an interesting question though.

Frank

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 10-24-2002, 02:25 PM:

If the signs need to be energized by exposure to light, and stop shining after a few hours, they are likely using phosphors and NOT a radioactive source.

Radioactive materials are no longer widely used for this purpose:
here Use of Radium

"When concentrated, radium glows in the dark. Because of this property, it was once mixed with a paste of zinc sulfide to make a self-luminescent paint for watch, clock, and instrument dials. During the 1930s it was found, however, that exposure to radium posed a serious hazard to health: a number of the workers who routinely used the radium-containing luminescent paint developed anemia and, in some cases, bone cancer. The practice of employing radium in luminescent coatings was halted after the high toxicity of the material was recognized."

here EPA Guidelines
here (Iranian Journal of Chemistry and Chemical Engineering)

Transport and disposal of radioactive materials is highly regulated:
here Customs Regulations for Belarus

Posted by Frank Angel (Member # 248) on 10-27-2002, 03:26 PM:

As usual, John, you are one amazing human encyclopedia. Thanks for the info -- I said radium just off the cuff; I have no idea what they actually put in that plastic to make it glow. I am happy it isn't radioactive material so I don't have to worry leaning against the exit signs.

Frank

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 10-27-2002, 05:33 PM:

I know of a theatre that DOES use radioactive Exit signs and run-way "lights". The they are Tritium. They also bear the radioactive sticker on them (the exit signs, at least). One thing is for sure...after 10 years...none have gone out!

Steve

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"Old projectionists never die, they just changeover!"

Posted by Jean-Michel Grin (Member # 1360) on 10-28-2002, 04:47 AM:

Hi Antonio,

In Geneva I have the same problem with the "exit" sign they are to close of the screen, butfor me, safety must be the rule in every closed area.
The system that we use is a little complicated but is work: The exit sign are low-illuminated by LED's in normal mode. In case of fire Alarm, the projector is stopped, of course, the celing light are connecd to the UPS or an additional low-voltage lighting system is connected to a 24 volts battery, and the main voltage to the exit sign is switched off. BUT every "Exit " signs is fitted with a internal rechargeable battery and an voltage inverter to feed a intenal fluorescent light to bright illumine the "exit" sign. Even incase of power failure in your theater, This give a sufficien light to evacuate peoples..
I'm sorry I don't have a numeric camera to send you pictures of this equipement, but look at the folowing link: here (sorry, only in french) Is the manufacturer for Geneva of the emergency Lighting.

Bye,

Sorry for my weak English !

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Jean-Michel Grin - Europlex Cinemas (Switzerland)

Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 10-28-2002, 04:53 AM:

Quote from John P's link:

quote:
...radioactive radiation, nuclear substances and materials, the movement of which across the customs border of the Republic of Belarus is restricted.

...except to corrupt officials flogging it to middle-eastern dictatorships and Islamic terrorists, that is!

Posted by Peter Hall (Member # 695) on 10-28-2002, 11:57 AM:

Leo -
Some guy with a beard did offer me some exit signs in a suitcase - apparently from a former Russian state cinema - not exactly designed for the job but thy certainly did glow very bright !

Posted by Frank Angel (Member # 248) on 10-28-2002, 11:51 PM:

Jean-Michel, that's great concept -- we have similar "emergency" flourescent fictures that are powered by battery in the event of a power failure. But combining exit lighting with that principle is a good idea, especially since it allow you to keep them at a reduced level for normal operation and then they can go full brightness in an emergency situation.

Frank

PS -- Not to worry about your English; it was perfectly understandable -- I wish I could speak French or ANY other language as well. I particularly like the "numeric" camera -- no doubt that translats digital -- all those one's and zeros, numbers for sure.