This is topic 35mm Frame Counter in forum Film Handlers' Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.
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Posted by Joe Beres (Member # 678) on 11-05-2002, 03:14 PM:
I am looking for a 35mm frame counter for use on a bench with rewinds. A single gang synchronizer with a frame counter\ (I have one with a footage counter) would work, but I'd like to find something inexpensive. Can anyone recommend any models, sources, prices or ideas?
Posted by Bill Gabel (Member # 1105) on 11-05-2002, 03:34 PM:
I have two in my booth, one from Hollywood Film Company model 1.35.
The other one is from Movieola. Both are single gang synchronizers.
They work great, not like the Neumade ones I used before.
They are easier to work with, when you have a light source that is built into the bench.
Posted by Gerard S. Cohen (Member # 994) on 11-05-2002, 04:20 PM:
The Neumade Model 37 offered on eBay is listed at $6.95 and with two days to run, has NO bidders. Ships from CA.I've used this model,which is mounted on a porcelain-on-iron base.
I prefer one with the adapter that screws into the threaded hole on Kelmar rewind tables--that positions it right between the reels and it can't wander. You might be able to unbolt one from its base and
attach it to the adaptor bracket.
Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 11-05-2002, 05:36 PM:
Yes you can put the Kelmar table mounting plate on it easily.
Posted by John Hawkinson (Member # 1135) on 11-06-2002, 12:10 AM:
Joe, were you attempting to distinguish between footage and frame counters? The 35 sync blocs I've seen all have footage only on the counter, but frames on the sprocket wheel, and that's more than adequate.I have to agree with Joe (Redifer)'s review of the Neumade 37, it's really a poor excuse for a counter, and is really awkward to use. It's nowhere near as nice as a 1-gang sync block. (Threading film into it is annoying, it's not as easy to see frame marks, it doesn't heve a lock and/or detents). Also, the one on ebay has only feet, not feet+frames.
Still, you can't beat the price.
The used market is your best bet. They show up on ebay and elsewhere periodically, and go for ~$100. Whereas a new Neumade 37 goes for ~$500 and a new 1-gang sync block for ~$700 (numbers from memory).
--jhawk
p.s.: Today I acquired a 16mm 3-gang Neumade Syncromaster; it counts feet as well as hr/min/sec on two different counters...Doesn't seem as nicely made as our 35mm Moviola, but looks way better than the M37-style.
Posted by Gerard S. Cohen (Member # 994) on 11-06-2002, 09:41 AM:
JayHawk--
I don't know where you get your price estimates from, but when I was entrusted with five large shipping cases of manual editing supplies, I tried peddling them to editing studios on foot, printed photos and flyers, mailed same to film schools, followed up with phone calls, and after five years felt lucky to give it all away to a "film school" in return for a letter of acceptance to give to the retired NY/Hollywood editor. The only success I had was to sell a 16mm to Super-Eight synchronizer, like new, with two counters, for $500 to an editor who really needed it. Others didn't need them, or had no liquid assets, or if film schools, had closets full gathering dust since students all insisted on flatbed electronic equipment.This stuff offered on Ebay was going for low two digit figures if at all, while the Moviola catalogs listed prices in the thousands. I had
a hard time giving it away.
Gerard
Posted by John Hawkinson (Member # 1135) on 11-06-2002, 09:50 AM:
Gerard, My price estimate on the Neumade M37 was what was quoted to me by my local Neumade dealer; the price on a 1-gang moviola was based on the Christy's Editorial catalog (prices on the web). The $100 on ebay was based on when I closely followd auctions of frame counters there from December of 2001 through February of 2002, when I was in the market for such a thing...
--jhawk
Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 11-06-2002, 10:09 AM:
There is such a huge price differential between new and used equipment such as synchronisers and other editing hardware because there is such low demand for it. New stuff had to be hand-built, hence the price. The last Philip Rigby catalogue we had quoted around £7k for a fully motorised flatbed winding bench.
Posted by Joe Beres (Member # 678) on 11-06-2002, 03:45 PM:
Now that I've seen that Neumade still sells their counters, I think what I want is the 38-S. Hopefully, I can find a really cheap used one. 
Posted by John Hawkinson (Member # 1135) on 11-06-2002, 03:52 PM:
Joe: why do you want it? I have one and really dislike it. A 1-gang sync block is _much_ easier to use.--jhawk
Posted by Joe Beres (Member # 678) on 11-06-2002, 03:59 PM:
I want that one specifically because it has a frame counter, as opposed to the 37-S, and I am more confident that I will find one cheaper thatn a sync block. I basically want something to quickly and accurately measure frames between cue marks, either a counter or sync block will work., but a sync block is more likely to be more sought after, and therefore, more expensive. It also seems the the counter might take up a bit less space on the bench, and I like the idea of having an actual frame counter and not counting any frames. I wanted to get some specific ideas in mind of what to look out for on Ebay, especially in cases when poor quality (or no) pictures are included in an auction listing. Plus, all the times I've looked on ebay for 35mm sync blocks, none have come up. I'm working with a very limited budget here. I'll take the counter off your hands if you really hate it that much. 
