This is topic Opaque Splicing Tape - Why? in forum Film Handlers' Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.


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Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 11-23-2002, 12:30 PM:
 
I fail to understand the purpose of opaque splicing tape in any form. Why does it exist? Are people THAT BAD at projecting that they cannot determine if it is a reel change splice or one of the many splices they have added to the film due to "film breaks"? Are people THAT BLIND when breaking down a print? Is it worth compromising quality for the audience just so it is easier for YOU to break down a print? Also, what is up with that white tape that leaves four dots behind when peeled off?

The Landmark theaters out here still use opaque splices (we get prints from them on occasion). And they are union! What the hell?
 

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Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 11-23-2002, 12:36 PM:
 
One reason is because some booths are so poorly lit that nobody can see what they are doing. Another reason is sometimes they have to use what the corporate guys drag in, and are left with no other choice.
 

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Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 11-23-2002, 12:46 PM:
 
That's not good enough reason for me. Try again!
 

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Posted by Mike Olpin (Member # 1115) on 11-23-2002, 12:50 PM:
 
Because it's Cheaper!!!
 

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Posted by Lionel Fouillen (Member # 1475) on 11-23-2002, 01:11 PM:
 
I once talked to a projectionist who was using small opaque stickers to maintain the 2 pieces of film in the proper position in the splicer and also to make splices stronger, then he was putting the purpose-built transparent splice above it . Of course it was horribly visible on the screen, and the thickness of it all caused a slight jump of the picture when going through the gate.

 

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Posted by Gerard S. Cohen (Member # 994) on 11-23-2002, 02:34 PM:
 
One advantage of opaque tape shows when changing trailers and snipes.
If each is connected with a foot or so of black film, the identification of the trailer or snipe can be written on the tape.
That way it is easy to locate and update or change a trailer within the pack. I used to computer-print the platter lineup and post it on the console, but the inscription on the splicing tape is foolproof
confirmation. It never shows onscreen, since it's applied over black film. I believe a brief black screen between trailers is aesthetically pleasing and helps the viewer keep them separated in memory.
 

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Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 11-23-2002, 05:26 PM:
 
There are those, like Gerard, that like the black "slug" between snipes...I, personally, can't stand them...too much like a slide show. Now a fade-down to a fade-up looks pleasing to me. But to each their own on this one.

As to opague tape, Nope, never saw the need for it. I have been known to "flag" splices with it by cutting off slivers of opague tape before the days of striped tape.

Steve
 

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Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 11-23-2002, 05:54 PM:
 

quote:

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It never shows onscreen, since it's applied over black film. I believe a brief black screen between trailers is aesthetically pleasing and helps the viewer keep them separated in memory.

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While I agree with you on having a brief pause of black on the screen so the trailer presenatation doesn't look like tv commercials all slammed together, I must disagree with you on the opaque tape not being visible when placed on black film. The only way it isn't visible is if you are well under proper SMPTE light standards. Even at 8-10 footlamberts the "extra dark" two half-frames are easily seen. Plus with so many people chopping the trailers on an actual green band frameline, this makes the first frame only appear halfway as the splice runs through the projector, which really looks bad.

If I can train high school kids how to locate ultrasonic splices with no markings of any sort, then I see no reason why anyone needs anything but clear tape.

Gerard, is that opaque tape with the name of the trailer written on the tape thing some kind of New York union policy, or just something that some of the guys follow? There are a couple of theaters in Texas that were trained by a New York union guy (I don't recall his name) and he showed them that exact procedure as well as a slew of "not friendly to film" handling methods. It took me all of 10 minutes to un-learn them of that opaque tape habit and there have been no problems since.

Mike, actually I think the yellow/white tape is more expensive than clear.
 

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Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 11-23-2002, 06:11 PM:
 
OK, Joe...How about just plain being lazy. Will that excuse work?
 

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Posted by Frank Angel (Member # 248) on 11-23-2002, 06:19 PM:
 
Joe, I have always asked that question, and like you, never found an even marginally reasonable answer. Anything you can say about opaque tape being "easier to see" just makes no sense -- easier to see for whom? Might as well go all the way and make all the markings on the equipment in Braille.

I try to picture the scenario at the company which was going to make splicing tape. A bunch of R&D guys sitting around thinking of what qualities were needed in a splicing tape for film. Was OPAQUE the first thing that came to mind for these bozos ....or did it come to them after months of brainstorming? Surely these people weren't PROJECTIONISTS, were they?

And what about the guys at corporate headquarters....did THEY say, we need to buy splicing tape....let's order 10,000 rolls of YELLOW tape. Do these same corporate wizards say, "Gee, I tore a page in my ledger....can someone get me some YELLOW Scotch tape to mend it?" If opaque tape is so great, how come 3M went out of its way to develop INVISIBLE Scotch tape; their R&D guys didn't come up with the bright idea to go the other way and make yellow or white opaque Scotch tape, did they? No -- because it would be a STUPID idea. And it's even more idiotic for splicing tape.

And why would this yellow stuff be any cheaper than clear tape?

And NO....almost always opaque tape adds additional a bit more opaque-ocity (yeah, my word) to black film and you STILL see that blotch of the tape when it goes by, even in a blackout. Then there are fools who write on film in the fade-to-black thinking it can't be seen because it is on black film. I CAN be seen, and if they'd look at the screen every a few times during the course of their careers, they would see what their handy work looks like.

Can you tell I've had too much cappuccino?
 

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Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 11-23-2002, 07:42 PM:
 
Simple rule: Splices should NOT be visible to the audience, nor disrupt the sound in any way. That rules out opaque tape.
 

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Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 11-23-2002, 09:08 PM:
 
The annoying white tape actually does have a real purpose, but not in the booth. It is used by sound editors when splicing mag film and uses stronger adhesive, since mag film can only be taped on one side (the base side).

I personally use Neumade clear tape for all booth work and have been very happy with it.
 

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Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 11-23-2002, 09:50 PM:
 
I just wish opaque tape (including the Zebra tape) would just ride off in the sunset. Zebra tape will foul the SDDS and SRD tracks just as badly as the opaque tape.

John P. is right - it has no business being projected on the screen.
 

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Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 11-23-2002, 10:20 PM:
 
Paul,

Truth be told...any tape will foul Dolby or SDDS tracks, clear or opaque. With clear tape, the bits are way out of focus plus they are not going to be aligned that well. How well you make the splice will determine how well Dolby or SDDS digital survive the splice, not the clearness of it.

A different solution is to use a skinner tape. By not covering the tracks, the digitals track better. There are 8, 16, and 19mm wide tapes in addition to the traditional 24mm wide tapes.

Steve
 

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Posted by Daryl C. W. O'Shea (Member # 1303) on 11-23-2002, 10:26 PM:
 
Cinematronix
Cinematronix - Booth Supplies

If you're looking to be cheap, it looks like clear tape is the cheapest.

(8Roll) Neumade Clear $4.50

(8Roll) Neumade Yellow $4.50

(8Roll) Neumade Zebra $6.90

(6Roll) Generic Clear $3.20

(6Roll) Generic White $3.30

(6Roll) Generic Zebra $5.00

In Canadian Dollars.
 

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Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 11-23-2002, 10:40 PM:
 
Steve, you are correct. But, I must say that I have had less trouble with clear tape than I did with the opaque stuff.

And I agree that clear thin tape being better than the standard run-of-the-mill thick stuff.
 

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Posted by Dustin Mitchell (Member # 372) on 11-24-2002, 12:52 AM:
 
I've said it many times before and I'll repeat it here; of all the Film-Tech members that work in projection booths I likely have the worst eyesight. I can't even get a drivers license (to be fair, I'm a borderline case). Our booth isn't all the bright either. Yet I can still tear down movies built up with clear tape in the same amount of time it would take me if I used opaque tape.

That being said I will somewhat guiltily admit to using white tape and zebra tape to make up the previews. There was a manager who worked here up until last year who swore by white tape. I have such a large supply of it I have to use it for something-I can't justify throwing hundreds of dollars (yes, hundreds) worth of tape in the garbage.

But I would never use anything besides clear tape for the featrue.
 

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Posted by Gerard S. Cohen (Member # 994) on 11-24-2002, 01:08 AM:
 
Brad,
No I wasn't taught to identify trailers and snipes by writing on opaque tape. I just developed the practice as the number of non-feature film materials increased, and as trailers ran to A,B,C versions. Especially when working platters in multiplexes, there seems to be a need to quickly identify snipes and trailers that need to be removed or replaced, often from the platter. This was a complex job in a 14-plex, and one projectionist would make a diagram that looked like a football game play on trailer day. Of course, where the trailers are only changed when the feature changes, the job is much less stressful, but when the feature remains and only some trailers change, how do you locate and identify them quickly if they are not marked?
The black film I ordered was quite dense and I didn't think splices would be noticeable onscreen.
 

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Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 11-24-2002, 01:35 AM:
 
Stand on the side of the platter such that you are almost opposite whatever light you have. (Even a platter's worklight is enough though.) At least one angle will show light reflections off of the surface of the platter. That is the place you need to stand. Now just rotate the deck and look at the color diffrence between trailers. Most of the time splices are easy to spot, and they are effortless to spot if your splicer is a bit out of alignment. (I'm not advocating that.) Just reach in and break the splice and pull the loop of film out. If you need to change the 3rd trailer, then start counting from the end of the leader, one, two, break that splice and remove, then break the next splice and remove that loop (to go back on the shelf), then use the method of your choice to get the "new" 3rd trailer on the roll. So long as you keep a properly updated trailer list somewhere in some form, all you need to know is the number of the one you are changing. The title is irrelevant at that point.

I think the idea of making a picture page on how to do this is going to be MUCH more difficult than shooting a video download. Currently that is my plan. Movement is going to almost be required to properly demonstrate the various methods.
 

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Posted by Gerard S. Cohen (Member # 994) on 11-24-2002, 11:15 AM:
 
I never had a problem locating the trailers based on noticing the variations in reflected light, nor seeing and feeling the edges of the tape splices. Yes, keeping an accurate trailer list on each machine is key to the solution. If a single projectionist omits this step, I needed verification. It used to be possible to pull up the tail of a trailer to see the film's title in giant letters on the emulsion. That seems to have gone out of style. Especially on TV (do they chop the endings off the trailers?) I find it hard to learn the title of some films. since textual hype appears in the same size and typeface, and the film title does not end the trailer written large. Like print advertising, where if you don't spot the swoosh logo, hidden target or vodka bottle shape, you don't know what is being promoted. Last time at the movies I saw four trailers and remembered only two titles. On TV it's worse, they run together and
sometimes I can't find either the titles or the demarcation between them, so I can't tell how many films are being advertised.

Anyway, around 1990 United Artists sent its technician around to inform us that we were no longer to use opaque tape at all. They experimented with ultra-violet tape with black light tube lamps and a hand held model, but that was soon discontinued in favor of clear tape and zebra tape (correctly applied on edges only--we didn't have SDDS sound). For a while I tried marking the edge with a fine pen,
using initials of the trailer titles.

My last steady job was at a single screen theatre with platters, and
so I had all the time to select, schedule, run and update trailers without being rushed. That was fun, since management left it all to me. The only proviso was to run 4 to 5 trailers, no more that two of the same studio, and there was one restriction when the feature was from Disney, which I've forgotten. Since I charted the lineup, identifying the trailers ceased to be a problem, and I had the luxury of following the system you use, in "my own" theatre.
 

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Posted by Bruce Hansen (Member # 281) on 11-24-2002, 07:37 PM:
 
The white and yellow tape always leaves alot of goo behind when you try to peal it off the film. I wish that the people who use that white and yellow stuff would have to remove it from the film. They would change to clear tape quick.
 

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Posted by Bob Maar (Member # 763) on 11-24-2002, 07:59 PM:
 
Sorry guy's, changed my mind about posting here I will leave this to the projection professionals but I am listening
 

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Posted by Steve Scott (Member # 630) on 11-24-2002, 08:28 PM:
 
All of the booth managers before the one that I'm under now, always insisted that we use yellow tape, simply because the person changing trailers or breaking the film down would have less work to do in looking for the splices.

Now, the guys building use zebra tape for reel changes, but yellow tape for trailers. And it's not even neumade tape, it's like what MTS used to send out. When I'm breaking down trailers, these yellow pests stick to the SRD track spaces, or worse, on the actual image and I'm forced to peel the crap off.

When I'm building, I use clear tape with small yellow tape strips applied very carefully to the SDDS track space for reel identification.
 

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Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 11-24-2002, 08:51 PM:
 
Ewwwwww!!!! That stuff MTS used to send out is some of the worst tape I have ever seen! Mann Theaters used to LOVE that stuff. They would buy Neumade clear tape and MTS zebra tape (whatever it was). After much bitching I was able to get Neumade zebra but by that time we were using 100% clear tape anyway, so it was a long battle for nothing, I guess.

But unless you get a used print that already has lots of splices in it, I don't really see the need for zebra tape either. And why do trailers need extra visable splices? They are always the easiest of all splices to find, even with clear tape.
 

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Posted by Josh Jones (Member # 447) on 11-25-2002, 12:38 AM:
 

quote:

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If I can train high school kids how to locate ultrasonic splices with no markings of any sort, then I see no reason why anyone needs anything but clear tape.

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Uhem....standing up for the high school kids

Josh
 

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Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 11-25-2002, 01:55 AM:
 
Well Josh, you may still be in high school, but when I say "high school kids" I don't refer to guys like you. I doubt I would have to even bother showing you how to find an ultrasonic splice. I was referring to the commonly found "high school kid" who doesn't give a flip about working and only wants beer money for the weekend.
 

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Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 11-25-2002, 08:51 AM:
 
It's NOT the age, it's the MATURITY that's important.
 

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Posted by Josh Jones (Member # 447) on 11-25-2002, 09:40 PM:
 
I know, I was just giving you a hard time

Josh
 

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Posted by Nathan Guerriero (Member # 1214) on 11-25-2002, 11:59 PM:
 
Kodak Film Notes Issue # H-50-3 pg 9 states, "One current method uses white translucent polyester splicing tape. The density of the tape is low and generally passes through the projector unnoticed on the screen, but can easily be seen on the film."

When they say "white translucent tape" do they mean what I think of as opaque tape? Obviously, I know the difference between opaque and translucent, but I was just wondering about the semantics here.

Also: I use rolls of yellow opaque splice tape in my booth all the time. They make perfect shims for the makeup table legs.
 

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Posted by Alex Grasic (Member # 1371) on 11-26-2002, 12:06 AM:
 
Well, after reading all of this, I totally agree that the opaque white tape is simply horrible. We had a union projectionist working here for about 1/2 a year (at our 18-plex) and he loved the white tape, everyone saw it and HEARD it on screen between every trailer and reel change. Since we outed him, I've been using the Zebra tape and to be honest, I've never seen a splice (well, maybe one or two) go through the machine which was noticable on screen or through the speakers. This just leads me to believe that Zebra tape can be just as good as the clear tape.
 

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Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 11-26-2002, 08:04 AM:
 
Nathan wrote: "Kodak Film Notes Issue # H-50-3 pg 9 states, "One current method uses white translucent polyester splicing tape. The density of the tape is low and generally passes through the projector unnoticed on the screen, but can easily be seen on the film."

I think Kodak's Paul Preo was referring to a tape that had a matte surface, kind of like the 3M Scotch "Magic" tape, that would easily be seen by it's dull surface against the shinier film, yet transmit light. Even so he cautioned to: "...prevent unnecessary visual disturbances to your audience."

Since today only opaque (colored) tape, "Zebra" tape, and clear tape are available, the choice is CLEAR if the audience should not see the splices.

Obviously, don't use "Magic" tape or any other tape not specifically designed for splicing.
 

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Posted by Joseph D. Olson (Member # 1340) on 11-30-2002, 05:34 AM:
 
I may be a little light on the lingo, but my understanding of Zebra tape is that it's the stuff that has bright yellow marks accross the frameline. Not the frame, correct?

Now my problem is that my Booth Manager has banned use of Zebra tape in any form and clear tape is used for everything, thus leaving no differential between fixes and reel changes. Every once in a while I'll get a fix less than ten frames away from the next reel and it never fails that I fall for it and make my job just a little harder.

And as far as opaque tape goes, I've known guys to use masking tape when they're being lazy and holy hell does it look bad.
 

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Posted by Steve Kraus (Member # 476) on 11-30-2002, 09:45 AM:
 
Your manager is right. Zebra tape is still visible on the screen on scope films and/or obscure some of the digital tracks, depending on the type of tape.

As for repair splices near the reel splice (probably caused by a prior user making the cut at the wrong place and the next person getting it right) if you look at what you're doing you will rarely have a problem. The reel splice is (with very rare exception) at a scene change. If the scene is the same on both sides of the splice then it's a repair not a reel join. Now granted, there are some ineptly edited films these days that might have a scene change 10 frames from the reel end and there could conceivably be a repair splice there but we're talking about likelyhoods here.

Finally, the reel that is ending will probably have changeover cues (dots) and these will be 24 frames from the end of the reel where your join is (24 usually inclusive of the 4 dot frames, sometimes exclusive), minus one or two check frames left on the leader and minus any lost due to hack operators who only know how to cut, not peel old tape.

It really just comes down to a willingness to take the time to do things right.
 

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Posted by Thomas Procyk (Member # 1170) on 11-30-2002, 10:22 AM:
 
Just started a new job at an older 8-plex. They use opaque yellow tape AND yellow edge-mark tape at each reel, and each trailer.

Hopefully, in due time, I can ween them off of this process, and the process of not putting ANY black leader before the first trailer/snipe, and the process of pulling the leader aaallll the waaaayyyy dowwnnnn to the first snipe when threading, and the process of.... *sigh*

=TMP=
 

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Posted by Joseph Pandolfi (Member # 223) on 11-30-2002, 11:47 AM:
 
I agree with Gerald 100% on opaque splicing tape. I just built a print up last week that the header reel was just over 20 minutes containing six NCN ads each ranging from 15 seconds to two minutes in length, our holiday greeting, our policy trailer, our emergency exit trailer required by the state of Connecticut, and six trailers. This makes a total of 19 spices not counting the leader and the Feature Presentation and two more rolling stocks ads. So locating a certain trailer or an ad that would be removed is quite easy if they were marked on the opaque tape with a fine sharpie pen. I just cannot see using any kind of tape necessary for spicing trailers or ads togehter and without IDing them especially on Thursday night when ads are required to be pulled or added.
 

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Posted by James R. Hammonds, Jr (Member # 673) on 11-30-2002, 01:37 PM:
 
Joseph, at the present time we are in the same boat.
We have 6 or 7 NCN ads, one Coke ad, Movietickets, Previews clip, 5 to 7 trailers depending on the print, Silence Is Golden clip, and Feature Presentation clip before the movie.
We also use clear tape for everything.
Its really not that hard to find an ad or trailer with all the clear tape, especially if if you have seen the ad and can identify it by looking at a few of the frames while on the platter.
The trick is that ALL the NCN ads on EVERY print should be in the exact same order, that way you know how many ads in a certain ad should be.
Also, trailers ahow on screen in the order they are released.
When it comes time to pull a trailer, the one to pull is usually the first one.
Also, we have a list typed up that is kept in order as well.
 

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Posted by Jesse Skeen (Member # 586) on 11-30-2002, 05:57 PM:
 
When I worked at a theatre that ran a lot of rolling stock trailers, I never had trouble finding them with regular (clear) splices- I kept a list of exactly what trailers were on every film, so if there was any doubt I'd just consult those whenever an ad had to come off or a new one go on. At another theater I knew a guy who liked to use opaque tape just for the trailers, but I went through and re-did them all with clear tape
BTW what REALLY needs to be banned is automation cues that can be seen on the screen! I recently saw a movie at a UA theatre and I could tell they were using those barcode stickers that go right on the film. I sent them a comment letting them know I won't be going back because of that.
I subbed for a while at one place where the main projectionist used opaque tape on everything because he said "I can't find that zebra s---!" but since it was a triplexed theatre with mono sound in 2 auditoriums, I didn't make a big deal out of that (and I never watched a single movie there, while I'd watch everything at the real theatres I worked at!)
 

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Posted by Thomas Procyk (Member # 1170) on 11-30-2002, 06:34 PM:
 
Okay, smack me if this is a dumb idea...

What about using a fine-tip sharpie to write the title on TOP of the ad/trailer as it lays flat on the platter? Never tried it, just an idea.

=TMP=
 

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Posted by Carl Martin (Member # 1146) on 11-30-2002, 07:05 PM:
 
smack.

if you changed any snipe in front of it the writing would become
italicized or unreadable.

carl
 

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Posted by Shaun Flichel (Member # 1435) on 11-30-2002, 09:22 PM:
 
The situation here is pretty bad with the big corporation.......no sufficient light in booth, most corps and trailers show up on Friday and must go on now, and if you have to stand there with no marks that stand out, this simply wont get done in time and trouble occurs......and for the record.........I only use clear splices.

Shaun
 

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Posted by Daryl C. W. O'Shea (Member # 1303) on 11-30-2002, 11:06 PM:
 
Like Shaun, I also work in a booth that has 'zero' light near the platters. I too use clear tape without a problem. If you're feeling for the splices then it doesn't really matter how dark it is in the booth or what the splice actually looks like. If you've made repairs, well, you're just going to slow down a couple extra times -- oh no... you'll waste a couple minutes, big deal! If not being able to see splices at the platter is a problem for you, break down on 6000's (you'll have to find one, at most two splices) and then break down the rest at the bench.
 

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Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 12-01-2002, 12:01 AM:
 
Repairs? Are you inferring that there are people who actually have film projection problems and have to repair damaged prints? Film done right means there is no such thing as "repair splices".

quote:

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The trick is that ALL the NCN ads on EVERY print should be in the exact same order, that way you know how many ads in a certain ad should be.

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