Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Bye Bye, Ballantyne

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Posted by Jack Ondracek (Member # 1466) on 11-26-2002, 01:09 AM:

Ahhh.... a sad day, indeed...

I should have paid more attention to the posts on this board... but I just had to give these PRO-35's I have a fair shake. (Ken Layton's laughing his head off right now! [Mad]

)

20 years ago, I presided over the corporate installation of 4 of these things in a Moyer house that had just been triplexed. In operation, it struck me that these projectors... right off the truck... were not putting out as stable a picture as the 1949 vintage XL's in the original booth upstairs. I just couldn't fathom that a machine would be marketed, and a company would accept an exhibitor's payment for a machine which couldn't be made to put an image on-screen without adding its own "artistic artifacts" in the form of jitter... just about every kind imagineable. It was true, though... and it appears still to be the case.

This year, I picked up a quad that included a booth full of PRO-35s (Regal, in their infinite wisdom, had elected not to remove them from the booth [Confused]

). After 3 months of nearly daily attention, including the investment of a couple of very talented service techs... and several thousand dollars worth of parts (guides, sprockets, bearings, gears, couplers... one a Disney version... pad rollers... even a rebuilt intermittent), and about 5 gallons of oil to get them cleaned out, we haven't been able to coax them anywhere near the stability of an XL or Century. I've come to dread watching the credits when I'm running the booth. It's a shame, really... there are some things about the machine I really like. I think the lubrication system is outstanding... and I've never had trouble with seals or leaks. It's a relatively easy machine to service, and I've had just about every piece off the thing by now. From what I've heard, the shutter & dowser components are a lot harder to burn through than a Christie. Even the XL parts aren't as thick. You ought to have armor like that on YOUR tank!

However, it's time to bow to the superior intellects herein and put the money somewhere else. The PRO-35s are heading out the door over the next few weeks. Coming in are 4 sets of SA's & R3's... and unfortunately, the bases to hold them. I'd have gone with the XL & SH1000 combo, since I've got them at my drive-in... but I've noticed the marking of the film the soundhead causes (also noted here).

No offense to Strong... especially since they'll be getting my spare parts $$$ for the new gear as well. A real shame though, that after 20 some-odd years of opportunity, this machine just couldn't be made to cut it.

Another item in their favor, as far as I'm concerned... Strong's come up with every part I've ordered for these old beasts... sometimes eventually, but they've managed every piece.

Except for my sound rack & stage equipment, the booth is pretty much all Strong... so you guys don't go and get bought up by some outfit in Walla Walla, ok? [Big Grin]

Posted by Ken Layton (Member # 133) on 11-26-2002, 01:27 AM:

Yes, I am laughing my head off! [Big Grin]

Soured on Ballantynes? Sell 'em back to Tom Moyer.

Posted by Jack Ondracek (Member # 1466) on 11-26-2002, 01:41 AM:

Sorry to bump this, everyone. Please see my post regarding what heads like these might be worth.

Thanks.
Jack

[ 10-19-2005, 03:18 PM: Message edited by: Jack Ondracek ]

Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 11-26-2002, 01:54 AM:

Jack, where are they headed....I have a big Ford F-250 that has plenty of room in the back. [Big Grin]

Posted by Jack Ondracek (Member # 1466) on 11-26-2002, 02:00 AM:

Thought I might hear from you, Paul [Big Grin]

.

Don't have any immediate plans... They might wind up in storage at the drive-in... right next to my collection of old Swords & tired Brenkerts... unless someone wanted to make a reasonable offer for them. They're junk to me... but you know what they say about one man's junk! [evil]

The thought also occurs that, considering what old rusty film cans, shipping reels, trailers & copper drippings attract on Ebay (not to mention old speakers with suspiciously short cords, from still-open drive-ins, somewhere in the Pacific Northwest)... I ought to really rake it in with some good pictures and an appropriately descriptive, but not overly flowerly written portrayal of these "fine, classic cinematic masterpieces of US engineering & design"

Geez... your picture sure changes a lot! Stop pointing that weenie at me, will ya!

Posted by Pat Moore (Member # 380) on 11-26-2002, 09:47 AM:

Jeez, Jack. I saw that post and thought, "Oh Boy! ANOTHER rumor on Ballantyne and Strong International..." Don't scare me like that. [Wink]

Actually, it's surprising how many Ballantynes are out there and still performing. The newer framing coupler really helps image quality issues. Still, Ballantynes seem relegated to special venue and similar applications.

Pat

Posted by Jack Ondracek (Member # 1466) on 11-26-2002, 02:50 PM:

quote:
From Pat:
Actually, it's surprising how many Ballantynes are out there and still performing. The newer framing coupler really helps image quality issues. Still, Ballantynes seem relegated to special venue and similar applications.

That's what I hear, Pat. I also understand they're a lot more prevalent in your part of the country. We don't see many of them here, except in theatres that were equipped by Tom Moyer / Luxury Theatres... and most of those are getting pretty old.

I did try the Disney coupler, and it did help quite a bit. Guess I'm just too darn picky. [Roll Eyes]

Anyway... am looking forward to installing the new Centurys. There are a lot of them around here... even a set of 1947 vintage 'C' models... still solid as a rock & running every day.

Posted by Dan Lyons (Member # 1454) on 11-26-2002, 06:19 PM:

OOh, is that a VIP base? Nice looking.

Danny

Posted by Mike Olpin (Member # 1115) on 11-26-2002, 06:32 PM:

If you're just going to toss them,
--THEN I WANT ONE !!!

[Big Grin]

(ya, right [Roll Eyes]

)

Posted by Mike Olpin (Member # 1115) on 11-26-2002, 06:34 PM:

Hey! When did my signature I set up when I registered start working? [Confused]

Oh well. Hey, It's good advice! [thumbsup]

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 11-26-2002, 07:29 PM:

Funny I never never had a stability issue with a Pro35. Most of them blew the century's and simplexs out of the water and for years I serviced enough of them. (the only reason most of those don't get my attention is the venues closed or were sold and those are all still in service)
Without exception I have never found any real fault with the machine other than oil leaks. Also I never once bought that easily converted between 70 and 35mm issue (It always took forever)
I am sure I could find a good home for any ballantynes up here they are still one of the best built machines out there and never had any grief out of them

Posted by Pat Moore (Member # 380) on 11-26-2002, 08:00 PM:

I agree, Gordon. Unless the coupler or outboard arm got beaten up, picture quality was not bad at all with the PRO35 and would match up pretty well against anything else. They are truly built like a tank. The sad part is that it took so long to really address the oil leaks and the somewhat fragile coupler and outboard arm assembly.

Loved that VIP Master picture. I did a few of those...

Pat

Posted by Jack Ondracek (Member # 1466) on 11-26-2002, 08:08 PM:

DAN: Yes. That's a VIP base. These things were all originally installed as master/slave reel to reel changeover units. The base was sold with a motorized takeup spindle (very good, as I recall), and supply arm that contained its own rewind. Once mounted, you didn't need to remove the film until the end of its run (or unless you needed a fast rewind... they were slow). The base also included mechanical automation (sort of reminiscent of a co-operator, but bigger). The master unit had a tube-type amplifier for the sound system, and the slave contained a spare. Really nice system for its time... you basically just wired the supplied raceway, then plugged these things in.

MIKE: Sorry... still smarting from the $$$$$ bleeding.

GORDON: Sure wish you were located a little further South... you could have taught us all quite a bit, I suspect. From the comments on this board (favorite/worst projector), it looks like you really knew the secret of these things. Anyone else that's used them seems to have experienced what I have... except for Paul... and I'm beginning to wonder if those hot dogs might not be part of HIS formula.

In the end though, I'm gravitating toward a mode where I prefer to have currently-supported equipment in my booths. Not to get Kenny started, but I used Brenkerts for almost forever, and probably still would be, were it not for the (reliable) spare parts issues. The PRO-35s, for better or worse, are getting to the point where it's dubious if Strong has parts on the shelf (other than maybe coupler components!)

PAT: You've seen machines I obviously haven't... and the Northwest had a bunch of 'em in the late '70s & early '80s. Tom Moyer really liked them... but rumor has long held that his interest was more for financial reasons than anything about the machine. The only ones left, that I'm aware of, are in houses that Moyer built, Act III... then Regal acquired, and have now become too old (or out-located) for them to consider updating. Attrition has cut the numbers quite a bit. Possibly, the largest remaining "nest" of them is in Chehalis, WA... where Ken presides over the brood.

We have one theatre left in our area that still has PRO-35s, and I would put an XL or any Century mechanism up against them in a heartbeat.... but I'd rather see those machines here, because that theatre's only a few miles down the road from me! [Big Grin]

I've got a good picture of one of these operating, I'll upload tomorrow.

Posted by Pat Moore (Member # 380) on 11-26-2002, 10:35 PM:

Yep, Jack, I probably did a few of those machines, maybe some still running and some not. There are hours and there are hard hours, and some of those Ballantyne's probably hard a hard time until guys like you came along to really take care of them.

I'm not sure if Tom Moyer had any interest in Ballantyne -- if he did it was a small one. It was personal relationships that made him loyal to the company back then.

And please don't worry about parts. There are a few things for the early Model VII Soundheads or the original pad roller arms that aren't available anymore, but you can get just about anything you need that I'm aware of. Heck, we still sell new ones...

Take care, Jack.

Pat

Posted by John Eickhof (Member # 323) on 11-26-2002, 10:47 PM:

Hey Pat! I remember our first meeting in Carson City many years ago...I had the XL booth and you installed the VIP booth in the cinema 50! I am afraid that place is long gone now!! Whatever happened to the VIPs and the Jerry Lewis XLs is unknown!!
Happy thanksgiving!!

Posted by Pat Moore (Member # 380) on 11-27-2002, 06:36 AM:

Well, John, let's not say "many" years ago...But I guess it really was, huh? I haven't thought of that stuff for a LONG time.

Have a GREAT Turkey Day yourself, John, and same to everyone else...

Pat

Posted by Daryl Lund (Member # 356) on 12-01-2002, 12:57 AM:

I just bought a three plex that was built to compete with goodold Tom Moyer. That just happens to be a Pat Moore install. With sliding lense and app plates. I thought that this was big stuff for a kid running supers in my seventy year old house in Elma, WA. Jack make me a super deal and I will send Reverand Kenny Layton up with cash and He will haul them home in His super Dautsoon wagon

Posted by Jack Ondracek (Member # 1466) on 12-01-2002, 01:04 AM:

Geez, Daryl... don't you have enough of them yet??? [Wink]

Well... You and Paul (the Northwest PRO-35 fan club) can fight over me when I get my Century's installed. Meanwhile, I hope you do well with the new acquisition... recent setbacks notwithstanding!

Didn't know you had Elma. I looked at it waaaay back... someone else had it then (back when the D&R in Aberdeen was still open). Didn't that place have an AC arc at one time??

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 12-01-2002, 10:30 AM:

Jack,
Bet you will have more problems with the Centurys.......
Just send the ole Ballantynes back to Pat for an overhaul to the New Strong Factory Specs. If you do, they'll run trouble free for a hundred years!
Mark @ CLACO

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 12-01-2002, 10:33 AM:

John said "Whatever happened to the Jerry Lewis XLs is unknown!!"
I thought I remember you telling me that the Jerry Lewis Cinema had
X-L's #120, #132, #134,and #167 in there originally?
Mark

Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 12-01-2002, 08:16 PM:

Jack, give Pat a shot at your worse PRO-35. It might be cheaper in the long run rather than to fart around with a Century that is half worn out. [Big Grin]

Posted by Daryl Lund (Member # 356) on 12-03-2002, 02:51 AM:

Jack Find some good motiographs they will fix everthing

Posted by Randy Bowden (Member # 587) on 12-03-2002, 04:51 PM:

There are quite a few Bal's out there in service still. I personally rebuilt the 10 machines that are currently in operation at the Tigard Cinemas in Portland, OR. This was about 3-4 years ago. The original machines in that booth were in terrible condition, lots of oil leaks. Act 3 had a lot of these projectors in sevice. While I was residing as the Shop repair tech for them, I think I rebuilt something in the neighborhood of 100+ Intermittents in the span of 2 years. I'm still geting them in from Regal, however it has slowed down a lot. The downside is the high cost of the Lavezzi Starwheel, however they do put out a very steady picture after a thorough rebuild.