This is topic Disneyland projectionists in forum Film Handlers' Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.


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Posted by Michael Rourke (Member # 1142) on 11-30-2002, 12:48 PM:
 
I was recently at Disneyland and California Adventure theme parks, and there are three 3D attractions, and a large format flight simulator. I'm sure that the 3D Muppet Movie was film because it had a scratch at the end, and I'm sure the Flight simulator (Soaring over California) was film because of tiny little specks of dirt here and there, but I saw no dirt or scratches on Honey I Shrunk the Audience, or It's tough to be a Bug which leads me to believe that they were digital presentations....but is there such a thing as digital 3D?

I was glad to see Disneyland employing so many projectionists, and if I didn't have my kid with me I would have asked to take a tour of the booth, especially to see the booth for Soaring over California because it must have been a huge water cooled bulb for that screen.

Anyway, I was mostly posting this to see if any of those Disney boys or girls were lurkers here and could fill us in on their operation. I should point out also that their presentation was great and any dirt or scratch I noticed was because I was REALLY looking for them.
 

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Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 11-30-2002, 01:12 PM:
 
Do they really have "projectionists?" I would bet that all the Disney films are on endless loop systems and are all run automatically, for the most part.
 

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Posted by Ian Price (Member # 14) on 11-30-2002, 01:21 PM:
 
Yes they have projectionists. I met one old guy at Show East the past two years running.

They use a shitload of Ballentyne Pro 35/70s.

Yes they use loop cabinets.

This projectionist told me that they unthread every day and clean every roller. They are pretty proud of thier ability and performance. And they are well paid. Most of them are Projectionist/Technicians.
 

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Posted by Michael Rourke (Member # 1142) on 11-30-2002, 01:47 PM:
 
I'm sure Jan Hackett considers herself a projectionist even though she runs an endless loop. It all depends on what you're doing when you're not threading (or lacing) up all the time.
 

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Posted by Lionel Fouillen (Member # 1475) on 11-30-2002, 02:10 PM:
 
I saw "Honey I shrunk the audience" when on holiday in California in October 1998. Very spectacular, mainly when the rats (or was it mice?) go down the stage and run through the auditorium...

BTW, was it a 35mm or 70mm process?
 

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Posted by Daryl C. W. O'Shea (Member # 1303) on 11-30-2002, 02:42 PM:
 
Considering it only takes about a minute to thread a platter and projector, 99% of the time I am pretty much running an endless loop.
 

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Posted by Jack Ondracek (Member # 1466) on 11-30-2002, 03:09 PM:
 
A tech over here was telling me that they have some pretty jazzed-up PRO-35s... selected because Disney finds them quite easy on film. On the other hand, they've got a number of components that are designed for the Disney venue... such as direct coupling to the intermittent sprocket (after all... with endless loops and real projectionists you don't need framing, right?). Pat may be able to fill in some more... but I understand there are some gate & trap components that were specced by Disney to make the machine run the way they wanted... like stable!

Sure surprised me when, after we went through their shows, I heard about how many PRO-35s they use.
 

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Posted by Thomas Procyk (Member # 1170) on 11-30-2002, 05:49 PM:
 
My parents and I were at Walt Disney World in Orlando, and we visited the "Hall Of Presidents" attraction. It was a large oval auditorium with 5 or so screen "panels" covered by curtains, which would open up throughout the presentation to reveal more of the screens as the picture grew larger "around" you. A sort-of Cinerama type process. Very Impressive!

But, it was painfully obvious they were using several projectors. A big difference in screen brightness between sections, one of them being especially dim with horrible shutter ghosting. And the far right panel had a base scratch.

My parents fell asleep halfway through, and I just kept being distracted by the flaws. On the way out, I noticed three projectors in the booth, but there may have been more. Couldn't find anyone around to comment about the presentation, and we were in a hurry to catch the parade.

=TMP=
 

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Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 11-30-2002, 05:56 PM:
 
An aquantaince of mine in Rockford, Il was a projectionist at Walt Disney World and Epcot Center in Florida. He retired from Disney about 8 years ago.
Mark
 

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Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 11-30-2002, 06:30 PM:
 
I guess I should have worded my question differently. I have no doubt that they have people maintaining the equipment, cleaning, threading, etc. I was wondering if they had people "in the booth" on an ongoing basis doing that work as opposed to someone who just pushes the buttons. Obviously, they do have projectionists.

Although I have seen that tired presentation of "Hall of Presidents" that Thomas wrote about. I saw it in '00 and remember that one screen was incredibly dim. Wonder if it's fixed yet.
 

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Posted by Tim Reed (Member # 137) on 11-30-2002, 08:24 PM:
 

quote:

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And they are well paid.

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That's not what I heard. At least, not at Disney World. When I lived in FL, I serviced a lot of theatres in Orlando, union. I was told that the IA agreed to "leave Disney alone" in Orlando, if Disney returned the favor in CA.

There were several ex-Disney guys in the booths there who said they didn't make as much at the park as they did in the regular theatres.

And WDW was always trying to recruit new techs from the theatres -- I'd been asked several times, while making routines. The wages they offered didn't come close to what I was making.
 

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Posted by Darryl Spicer (Member # 711) on 12-01-2002, 12:23 AM:
 
I have heard that they rebuild those pro 35's every 500 hours. Does anyone know if this is true or not?

As far as the Hall of Presidents goes the images on all the screens looked evenly lit when I saw it in june of this past summer.
 

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Posted by Jack Ondracek (Member # 1466) on 12-01-2002, 01:15 AM:
 
2 or 3 (or???) rebuilds per lamp change?

W O W !
 

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Posted by Josh Jones (Member # 447) on 12-01-2002, 04:31 AM:
 
I tried to see some of the venues in Universal Studios, and had no luck. I was rather frustrated
 

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Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 12-01-2002, 10:37 AM:
 
Josh, You have to be 21 to see the Universal Studios booths!! Hang in there, it is approaching faster that you think!
Mark
 

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Posted by Thomas Procyk (Member # 1170) on 12-01-2002, 11:09 AM:
 
Darryl -- We visited Hall of Presidents in May of this past summer, so it's good to hear they have the problem fixed.

Mark -- I worked for Universal Studios briefly during their Halloween Horror Nights event. (I got to scur people, hehe) I never thought of asking to see the booths. Next year, I'll be 21 and will give it a shot!

=TMP=
 

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Posted by Steve Scott (Member # 630) on 12-01-2002, 10:10 PM:
 
I remember the Hitchcock exhibit at Universal Orlando used two projectors for the film retrospective. I think one was used for 3D and the other was for the actual film. But it seemed to feel like most of the rides had the resolution of a laserdisc...
 

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Posted by Bernard Tonks (Member # 809) on 12-02-2002, 06:03 AM:
 
Been to Orlando three times over the years, and have always been very impressed with film presentations, particularly 3D in all the Theme Parks, and prints were always in pristine condition.

Was in California a couple of months ago, SAN FRANCISCO EXPERIENCE 5/70 Cinemax was a disaster as the print was badly scratched and trashed, also there was a bad focus problem. Hearst Castle Iwerks was very good. PIRATES 3D at Seaworld LA was excellent, as was TERMINATOR 3D at Universal LA.
 

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Posted by Mark J. Marshall (Member # 1409) on 12-02-2002, 08:31 AM:
 
I've been to WDW several times and have always enjoyed the Muppet 3D movie, and Captain EO (whatever happened to that guy, anyway???) when that was out. I've always been very impressed with those shows.

However the Bug's Life and Honey I Shrunk The Audience always seemed to have a problem everytime I saw them. I could always see the digital characters twice. In other words, my brain didn't like to converge the left and right images together. Particularly when they got closer to me. Weird. Maybe their shutter sync was slightly off?

Terminator 3D at Universal was pretty awesome too. I just can't convince my brain that those digital characters in those other two movies are real. The closer they get, the less my brain believes it. Although I have no problem with the little blue blob guy in the Muppet 3D movie. Maybe it's me.
 

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Posted by Jan Hackett (Member # 1231) on 12-02-2002, 11:33 AM:
 
Michael Rourke said "I'm sure Jan Hackett considers herself a projectionist even though she runs an endless loop. It all depends on what you're doing when you're not threading (or lacing) up all the time."
Actually I do not run an endless loop...Platter here...but the ride simulator has the loop cabinet and is 5:70. And I ran a lot of 35mm before I before I got into Large format..........
 

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Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 12-02-2002, 02:30 PM:
 
The care taken by most of the special venue theatres allows print life extending into the tens of thousands of runs. Most of the loop systems have air filtration and on-line cleaning to keep the prints spotlessly clean. Because of its strength and durability, KODAK ESTAR base film has been the film of choice for special venue theatres long before feature films converted to polyester prints.
 

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Posted by Mike Olpin (Member # 1115) on 12-02-2002, 03:39 PM:
 

quote:

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PIRATES 3D at Seaworld LA was excellent

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Seaworld is in San Diego (not LA) , and yes, Pirates 3D is awsome. They use two 70mm prints running on loop.
 

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Posted by Larry Shaw (Member # 388) on 12-02-2002, 03:57 PM:
 
Art Averett, who is on here periodically, works in WDW, perhaps he'll fill us in. I understand that a few years ago WD made dramatic cuts in their projection engineering staff to save $. Some real good long-timers, for instance Bob Ray, departed, and I'm sure that hasn't helped presentation.
 

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Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 12-02-2002, 04:04 PM:
 
Another "long timer" from Walt Disney World was Tom Jozwiak.
 

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Posted by Andrew Lee (Member # 1330) on 12-02-2002, 04:10 PM:
 

quote:

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However the Bug's Life and Honey I Shrunk The Audience always seemed to have a problem everytime I saw them. I could always see the digital characters twice. In other words, my brain didn't like to converge the left and right images together. Particularly when they got closer to me. Weird. Maybe their shutter sync was slightly off?

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quote:

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Seaworld is in San Diego (not LA) , and yes, Pirates 3D is awsome. They use two 70mm prints running on loop.

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Mike, Thanks for correcting me. We did a 12-day tour with a very busy schedule that included San Diego. I would have liked to have visited some traditional city cinemas and theatres of historic value. Only two hours in Hollywood Boulevard before setting off to LA airport for homeward bound. It was sad to see so many closed cinemas in the Boulevard, I counted at least 8. I remember two signs, being the Fox, and the Vogue.
 

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Posted by Darren Briggs (Member # 1071) on 12-04-2002, 05:13 PM:
 
I belive the T2:3D has 6 70mm projectors in use, as at one pint it is like 3 panel 70mm 3D cinerama, very impresive!
The Honey I Shrunk the Kids is 70mm 3D i was told and it looked like it to me too.
I'm sure that WDW is bothered about quality shows and the reason you can't se any dirt of scrathes on the prints is because they ar well looked after, im sure many people on here will agree we can show films hundreds of times and they leave the cinema like new, so i see no reason that they wouldnt do thousands of shows if required and still look new, its the technial back-up and projectionist that keep them looking like this.
If anyone is in Europe, Futuroscope in the south of france is a must see, Every Imax format is there along with Showscan, 3D and even the largest video wall in the world. Best 3D ive ever seen is a toss up between T2:3D at Universal, or IMAX SOLIDO in Futuroscope, both mind blowing.

Darren
 

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Posted by John Eickhof (Member # 323) on 12-04-2002, 07:48 PM:
 
Actually Disney has a large staff of Projectionists and engineer/techs. I have an old friend I worked with at Altec years ago who went onto work at Dismal land in Anaheim, in fact he just retired a couple years ago. Tommy Oliphant had taken me through the park and I was amazed to see many busy working people in every booth I saw! They are quite dilligent, well paid and do an excellent job! Yes, the number of Balco 35/70s is amazing as well as the Disney and CFS cabinets! Tommy worked there for over 20 years! He always said it was a great job!! It beat spinning reels in any house in LA!
 

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Posted by Bernie Anderson Jr (Member # 410) on 12-04-2002, 10:05 PM:
 
I've always been impressed not only with the presentation at WDW but how flawless it is. Now, everyone is forgetting the "American Adventure" at Epcot. All the backdrops for the animated figures are done by film. And has been that way since it's opening in the early 80's. I still can't quite figure out how it's done. It's all rear projection. Now the one that got me this time was the "Honey I shrunk the Audience" Wow! William Castle would have been proud. Although it was 2 strip 3D, it wasn't as "Gag" as it could have been. I was quite impressed how the image gave you the depth of the stage and made you feel that they were on stage. Yes you did have things coming out at you, but it wasn't so far in your face that it kills your eyes. The depth is what really got me.
Now it's funny, how some people said they say flaws. In all the years I've been going there I've never seen any kind of blemish. It makes you get pissed at some of these operators that scratch film on build up. Here's Disney with tens of thousands of runs and still remain flawless. Now that's film-don-right!
 

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Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 12-05-2002, 07:04 AM:
 
As I recall, "American Adventure" at WDW Epcot is 5-perf pulldown 70mm 30fps in a loop, rear projected.
 

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Posted by Steve Kraus (Member # 476) on 12-07-2002, 01:09 AM:
 
The predecessor film in the Kodak Magic Eye Theatre (twin 70mm/5-perf), "Magic Journeys" remains my favorite 3D movie ever. In my mind it was more impressive even than IMAX 3D but it was a long time ago. In the same summer I saw it several times at Disney World and again at Disneyland. At the latter they were using a temporary semi-outdoor setup and that booth was manual, reel to reel.
 

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Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 12-07-2002, 06:50 AM:
 
"Magic Journeys" was the first production for the Kodak EPCOT "Journey Into Imagination" Pavilion. Murray Lerner was the producer. Don Iwerks was the Disney Technical Manager (who went on to found iWERKS Entertainment). Dr. John Simonds was the Kodak technical adviser on projection and production.

http://www.intercot.com/edc/Imagination/jfacts.html

http://us.imdb.com/Credits?0084291

http://www.iwerks.com/notshocked/index.html
 

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Posted by Jon Miller (Member # 163) on 12-07-2002, 09:53 AM:
 
Speaking of Iwerks, "Pirates 3D" at SeaWorld in San Diego is a fully-automated Iwerks 3D installation (8/70, IIRC), with twin Ballantynes (with the Iwerks emblem on the door glass), Strong Ultra 80s running 7 kW lamps, loop cabinets, digital sound tracks served from rack-mounted storage devices, many thousands of watts of sound amplification, and little synchronized "surprises" for the audience.

While on a group visit two years ago, I was able to talk my way into viewing the show from the booth (colleagues from my day job moonlit at SeaWorld at the time and I just had to experience the show from the projection booth perspective. Besides, I avoided getting soaked and "bird-bombed" that way! )...the 3D effect is just flat-out amazing, even from the "projectionist's" position.
 

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Posted by Jacob Huber (Member # 1138) on 12-08-2002, 02:37 PM:
 
Does anybody know off hand approx. what it would cost to rebuild a Ballantyne Pro-35? Also, what all would be replaced in a rebuild?
 

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Posted by Art Averett (Member # 367) on 12-09-2002, 08:10 PM:
 
I work at the Disney/MGM studios. Yes Ian, I'm the "old man" that you have seen at Show East. HEHEHE. Prior to working at Disney, I retired from the Air Force in 1988, stationed in Germany. My background has been electronics and I finally obtained an Associates degree in electronics after I retired. However, starting out in projection, I was an AV geek in junior and high school. WE had a lot of RCA 16MM projectors, tube amps and such. I didn't get into 35MM until I entered the service and bugged a projectionist that worked for the old Army and Air Force Motion Picture Service (AAFMPS). I cut my teeth on Simplex XL's and Peerless Magnarcs. It was the standard set-up for the military. There were a few 16MM set-ups in remote locations, but I never bothered with them. It wasn't until 1974 that I was stationed in Wash DC, that I went to local 224 IA, and got my babtism of fire in projection. Everything in projection from Simplex to Century to Norelco's. It wasn't all glory, as there were a lot of old theaters that had Simplex Supers, E-Sevens, Century C's and a lot of carbon arc lamphouses. Everything from Peerless to Ashcraft. Drive-ins were thriving and it wasn't uncommon to have one driv-in that had car heaters. I know because I had to turn the main ckt brkr's on in December for a Billy Jack feature. From there I was stationed ovewrseas again for two years and then to MA. I worked for local 182 IA, and joined them. I also met two very good friends that I'm constantly in touch with, Larry Shaw and Chapin Cutler of BL&S. I went back overseas agin for ten years in Germany. Finally I returned back to the states, arriving in Orlando. Yes I sent a resume in Disney, and Universal. It took awhile, but in between I went back up to Boston to work, almost moving back there. I returned to FL and was contacted by a gentleman from Disney, went for an interveiw, and have been with them ever since. There is also alot of special effects projection that Disney uses. I have been involved with showing daily rushes of films that were shot in the area. The first was Passenger 57, the last being Instinct, with ANthony Hopkins and Cuba Gooding Jr. While the shows are going, I spend time working on power supplies, strobe units, and going on top of the Great Movie ride and working on the skylights or, pichels as they are called. I also have to answer to trouble calls on any of the projection shows in the park. We're dedicated to presenting the best that can be shown. We also follow SMPTE standards for screen lumination and film. Our "one Man's Dream" film is presented in Digital Dolby sound. It is quite an experience working for Disney, I would not trade it for anything else.
 

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Posted by Steve Scott (Member # 630) on 12-09-2002, 10:33 PM:
 
The Hitchcock film had some light scratching on it, now that I think carefully, and it definately sounded like digital sound, maybe DTS?
 

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Posted by Jack Ondracek (Member # 1466) on 12-10-2002, 12:23 AM:
 

quote:

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from Jacob...
"Does anybody know off hand approx. what it would cost to rebuild a
Ballantyne Pro-35? Also, what all would be replaced in a rebuild?"

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quote:

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And it was incredibly bright- Carbon arc bright!

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Having done that show, I can confirm it's xenon.

Also, "Lincoln" as well as many of the gigs in the "Haunted" venue have been converted to video. (It broke my heart to see that happen...)

All of the "big" scenes using the "Pepper Ghost" effects are still film-based.

>>> Phil
 

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Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 05-19-2004, 09:05 AM:
 
The Haunted statues actually benefited from video over film. There are times when video is just a better tool to use for a given effect than film. The problem is when video is over used because "we always use video now."

Steve
 

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Posted by Frank Angel (Member # 248) on 05-19-2004, 10:25 AM:
 

quote: Jacob Huber

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I was just wondering how much Disney would spend if it's true that they rebuild every 500 hrs.

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