Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Technicolor Shipping Quality

This is topic Technicolor Shipping Quality in forum Film Handlers' Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.

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Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 12-02-2002, 10:16 PM:

This should come as no surprise to anyone. A shot of cans from TES as they arrive at the theater:

Now these reels can't get like that just being shipped normally in the can. They have to be packed in there incompetantly to begin with. They HAVE to be!

This picture was actually taken by forum member Jeff Skallan awhile ago. He forgot how to use his computer so I uploaded the pic for him. [Smile]

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 12-02-2002, 10:21 PM:

At least some of the reels had bands (even if they weren't fastened). [Wink]

What was the feature? Was it a new print, or had it been run at another theatre?

Posted by Ray Brown (Member # 1449) on 12-02-2002, 10:43 PM:

WOW! Orange cans not dented all to hell! [Eek!]

Back to the subject, I'm not surprised at all. Been waiting for something like that to happen here. I like how the band is interwoven with the leaders. [Roll Eyes]

Integrity Inspected? If this came directly from another theater, they deserve to have there name mentioned in the "You Suck" thread.

Posted by Andrew Duggan (Member # 1302) on 12-02-2002, 11:55 PM:

The thing that really drives me nuts about seeing that isn't the complete lack of regard for the print, or even the fact that the person who "inspected the quality" of that print it probably making more than I am by a long shot...

The thing that really did it for me was the crisp realization that looking at that picture didn't even annoy me like it should. I've become so numb to the constant outpouring of stupidity that gets delivered every Thursday that it dosen't even raise an eyebrow. Sad.

Posted by Dustin Mitchell (Member # 372) on 12-03-2002, 12:37 AM:

Not sure if that is a new or used print John, but I've recieved several prints over the three years I've been building movies that arrived new in conditions similar to the picture.

Posted by Jeff Skallan (Member # 891) on 12-03-2002, 02:22 AM:

As [Eek!]

as this may be, these reels were from a NEW print of Frida. Two out of the six were partially unwound, one of which had base scratches into the first four frames. All had bands around the reels, but didn't have the string; they were only secured by a small piece of tape. The shipping cans were also pretty filthy, consequently transferring dust all over the film. When I picked up one of the reels, it was broken and came apart into two pieces. I assure you that the photo above was not staged or doctored in any way. I've encountered all of these problems listed above on numerous occasions, but to have all this trouble within the realm of one print is a bit too much!

I recall some time ago reading a Technicolor survey about reel choices. I'm curious to know if anyone has seen an improvement with the quality of reels since that time. Has there been a dominate type of reel with Technicolor prints lately?

Everyone has problems with Technicolor reels from time to time and it is a bit unfair to pick just one print from thousands and make an example of it. However, I would like to see some kind of survey done to determine the actual percentage of problem reels/conditions that are all too commonplace.

Posted by Kenneth Wuepper (Member # 1174) on 12-03-2002, 07:28 AM:

Yes, since 1954 I have received many such shipments of film. The cause is improper packaging of the film. The most recent example of this is our current, second run, print of "Spy Kids 2". The reels were 'tails out' and the bands were loose or completely off the reels. Two reel bands were without string or tape, just loose. The trailer, "Tuxedo" and the first two reels were run off a sprocket and the analog sound track is destroyed. There is a large base scratch throughout the print on the machine side (non soundtrack) of the film. The owner requested a replacement print from TES at 1PM on Friday. He was promised a replacement that day. It has yet to arrive.

The proper packing, shipping of materials should include but not be limited to:
Placing the tail leader into the reel core before beginning to wind the film (NO tape, and not relying on friction between the film and the core)
Attach the leaders to the imaged film firmly and 'in frame' for the next person.
Attach the outside end of the film to the spooled film firmly with paper tape. Write feature and reel number on tape if leader is not visible. Emulsion inside wind is preferred.
The paper band, if provided, should NOT be taped to the film pack. The band should be wound "in the opposite direction" to the film pack. Attach the band with string. (The purpose of the band is to prevent the pack from unspooling if the end becomes loose, thereby containing the film inside the reel flanges)

The best way to deal with poorly delivered films is to report the circumstacnes to:
TES or the terminal of origin
Your booking agent
The film company salesperson

No problem can be fixed if the source is unaware of the problem.

KEN

P.S. Don't forget to put an electrical tie wrap through the latches on the can. If the can comes open in shipment there is no end to the mess that will occur. YES! The latches do come open in transit!!

Posted by Bill Enos (Member # 440) on 12-03-2002, 08:26 AM:

Looks about averagefor the prints I receive from all sources, not just Technicolor. Bands or tape? Since nobody seems to be able to reattach bands properly, just give me tape, any kind, masking is ok, I can remove the residue, just use enough to hold the end down. If the cans are not bashed against the reels, so what! Damn you guys are picky.

Posted by John Hawkinson (Member # 1135) on 12-03-2002, 09:22 AM:

"What Bill said." At least you got DTS discs.

--jhawk

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 12-03-2002, 09:23 AM:

A properly attached STIFF shipping band helps prevent the reel flanges from crushing and damaging the film when squeezed into the shipping case. Simply taping the leader end does not offer this added protection, and some tapes will either leave a residue or come undone.

Shipping cases should be periodically vacuumed to remove any debris that can get onto the print. In an ideal world, each reel should also be in a clean plastic bag.

Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 12-03-2002, 11:18 AM:

Why the words 'SAFETY FILM' in big bold letters? Does Technicolor regularly ship nitrate around like that? If so I'm surprised that most of their drivers haven't been blown up by now!

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 12-03-2002, 11:55 AM:

I think each Film-Techer should print out this thread in glorious color, and we should all mail copies to the film companies, Technicolor, NATO, Boxoffice magazine, and anyone else we can think of. If they get buried under an avalanche of pictures, maybe they will take notice.

Posted by Dustin Mitchell (Member # 372) on 12-03-2002, 02:13 PM:

Leo, as far as I know technicolor doesn't handle nitrate prints. In fact most states/municipalities have laws regulating the presentation of nitrate, I'm not sure on the particulars. The 'Safety Film' label on the bands is just a holdover from the old days I believe.

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 12-03-2002, 02:20 PM:

Sometimes there are regulations on the books that have not been amended in decades. Kodak still gets regular requests from theatres to provide documentation that safety film does not require the precautions required for storing and handling nitrate film:

Kodak Publication H-182 for Nitrate Film

Film/Paper Flammability

Is Film Combustable?

Film MSDS

Posted by Steve Kraus (Member # 476) on 12-03-2002, 02:34 PM:

What would you think of a large rubber band instead of the paper band? It would be of such size and elasticity to go froma half full reel to a completely full one.

May the ghost of Natalie Kalmus come and paint your room puce.

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 12-03-2002, 02:45 PM:

I noticed that whatever movie that is, it is a Deluxe Hollywood print. Since they are so cinchy about their tail leader length, if any one of those 3 reels in the right can came "tails out", then that would be a reject reel right there from the shipping damage.

Perhaps this should be sent to Deluxe too! After all, it's TES nonsense like this that is costing Deluxe money in reprints.

Posted by Tom Doyle (Member # 1474) on 12-03-2002, 10:00 PM:

Actually, I think prints can end up that way not on purpose, but just from the shipping method. I'd say maybe 1/3rd of the prints that come to my theater look like that (we're sub-run). It is caused by carelessness on the part of the 'inspector' or previous film handler. The end of the film is not secured properly to the reel, which doesn't seem like a big deal. However, they put that can on its side and haul it by truck, plane, whatever. After a while, even slight bumpiness over time will cause the loose ends to settle on one side of the can. Stand it back up and open it - it looks like someone wrapped the heads around on each other. I witnessed this myself after hauling a print in my trunk for about an hour.

You'd know if it was done on purpose - I've seen that as well. We once got a print where someone taped the end of one reel to another reel and then wound it many times onto that reel. The best way I could describe it to technicolor was that it looked like a cassette tape - one long piece on two reels. We couldn't find the ends. It took us longer to build up the film than to actually show it!

Posted by Frank Angel (Member # 248) on 12-08-2002, 12:43 PM:

We started using large, commercial rubberbands for our archive collection. They work every well, but in the rough-and-tumble world of the projection booth and shipping depots,where people cannot figure out how to tape down the film end or wrap a reel band arond the reel correctly, the rubberband might not be of much help. Problem with it is that if you don't take the time to center it, it can slip between the film and the reel flange, doing no good whatsoever. There is also the question of whether or not the pressure exerted by the band itself will eventually cause a deformation in the film wraps close to the top of the reel. That might occur if a band was chosen which was too small for the reel size. So far (we have been using them for over two years now) they have caused no deformation at all, but it was a concern when we first started using them. Bottom line is, they can be used inappropriately just as are reel bands in the hands of people with neuron-synapse deficency.

Frank

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 12-09-2002, 09:17 AM:

Problems with using rubber bands include deterioration of the rubber with age, causing them to become brittle or sticky. Rubber also may contain sulfur compounds, which will harm film images in long-term storage. And as Frank notes, the pressure of the rubber band may cause physical deformation of the film.

"Bands" made of inert cardboard or film base still are the best choice for securing the outside of a reel.