Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Strong International Bad on Part Delivery

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Posted by Konrad Schiecke (Member # 393) on 12-05-2002, 07:23 PM:

I had the occasion to have to order parts thru Lavezzi from Strong International for a Simplex Xl 35/70 picture head. The order was placed two weeks ago and after many inquiries I learned that they were going to ship some [*] of the parts today with others on back order with no promised dates. Reason for the delay was they were too busy with inventory. I had the order canceled because I felt that I got the shaft. If big companies like Strong continue to operate with poor delivery and no parts to back up there product one wonders how they stay in business.If I did this my repair business would be zero. I have reverted to other sources for the parts and have learned also today that this conduct is not unusual for Strong.

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 12-05-2002, 09:06 PM:

I have found that some times they are very good and other times they are not. When ordering platter motors I had to wait for them to be built according to what I was told, but the delay wasn't too bad. I just ordered a TON of platter parts, so I am assuming that's what the delay is. I'll have to double check. Just this week I finally got my keys for the flywheels (why they are not included with the flywheel is beyond me). I had to have my dealer remind Strong twice. Other times I request a part and it is there that same week without issue.

Posted by John Walsh (Member # 168) on 12-05-2002, 11:22 PM:

Not trying to defend anyone specifically, but I really feel the theater equipment industry has been decimated in the last three years. Be glad some companies are still around at all, to supply parts and service. Think of what you would do if you had Kintek sound processors and CFS platters.

In this context, I don't think two weeks is very long. Of course, I acknowledge if your projector was down for that two weeks, it would not be acceptable... but that rarely happens. Almost always, someone can get something to keep the projector at least running.

Taking inventory is a major aggravation: Everything must be "frozen" in place for a while when the counting goes on, or stuff might be counted twice (or not at all.) IE: Whatever items were in the test or production depts must stay there until the count is done. This goes on the profit/lost sheet for the year and when a company is not doing too well (not saying Strong is in this position) you look for every tax break, and this is one way to reduce it.

Posted by Pat Moore (Member # 380) on 12-06-2002, 04:33 AM:

I'd like to know what parts you're looking for, and what you mean by "ordering thru Lavezzi from Strong International".

Since we're not starting inventory for another 10 or 12 days I don't know what that has to do with anything. We do have a notice up on our website regarding inventory so our dealers and others are aware of it.

Pat

Posted by Dennis Atkinson (Member # 345) on 12-06-2002, 09:03 AM:

Two weeks is standard for a lot of industrial suppliers. With the holidays it sometimes hits 21 days. [Frown]

Dennis

Posted by Joe Beres (Member # 678) on 12-06-2002, 09:16 AM:

In the past, when I've needed parts from Strong, I've ordered them through International Cinema Equipment. I always received the parts very quickly, especially if I stated that they were needed right away. On a couple occasions I even received them the next day. I have never dealt with Lavezzi before, but based on my experience with Strong and reading Pat Moore's response, it sounds like Lavezzi is making excuses for their own slow order processing.

Posted by Richard Fowler (Member # 893) on 12-06-2002, 09:51 AM:

Lavezzi supplies many companies on an O.E.M. basis such as Strong. Cinema parts are only part of their business and Strong may of placed an order at a time that a product run for specific item was not scheduled + shipping to Strong, to Dealer, to you would cause delays especially in this very down time in this business.

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 12-06-2002, 01:44 PM:

Konrad,
Having worked for two dealers now I have yet to have any major delivery problems with Strong on anything. Even when they do get busy and some things are backordered, these things were always taken care of in a timely manner. None of the back orders I have experienced with them has delayed me in opening a theatre on time, or getting a head rebuilt in my shop, and back in on time. Even when I was running my own Supply Co Strong parts availability was no big deal. I don't think two weeks is so bad, and had you checked with Strong directly they would have been glad to tell you when the other parts would become available.

Come to think of it they probably have not produced many 35/70 X-L's lately, so certain odd parts may be scarce. Your parts may indeed be a part that LaVezzi makes for Strong and in that case waits of 6 to 8 weeks are not unusual as certain things are sometmies done out of their shop....anodizing, or plating for instance.... Ording your parts from an authorized dealer would have gotten you better, and faster response, and you would have known sooner what was going on....like the same day you ordered them.

Blamming Strong was wrong when it was your middle man that was at fault.

Mark Gulbrandsen
CLACO Equipment And Service
Salt Lake City, UT

Posted by Konrad Schiecke (Member # 393) on 12-06-2002, 02:18 PM:

For those of you who think two weeks is acceptable thats fine but its not acceptable to me. I have given all the details to Pat Moore and if he wishes to followup thats great.Mark G. your comments are not appreciated since you don't know all the facts.

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 12-06-2002, 02:38 PM:

I can't think of many suppliers that don't have a mini-shut down sometime during the year where they do their inventory or simply close for a holiday.

As to a two-week wait...that all depends on the part as to how acceptable it is. Some critical parts should be on-hand anyway.

No accountant will want a business have tons of money tied up on a shelf. So it is always a balance of having the right stock (at all levels, from raw material, through the end-user).

As to Strong, I have found that for the most part they have what you need when you need it. Sure there are some short falls but I haven't found any company (or cinema supplier) that has everything at all times.

However, if you are going to publicly bash a company, be prepaired from those that don't feel as you do to defend them.

Steve

Posted by Daryl C. W. O'Shea (Member # 1303) on 12-06-2002, 02:41 PM:

Maybe when bad mouthing companies it would be a good idea to supply 'all the facts'. As you've said, you haven't told the whole story. All that we can tell from this thread is that your dealer, or whoever you ordered from (which isn't clear) is jerking you around.

FWIW, I've waited for over two weeks just for splicing tape. I've also waited more than two weeks for parts for my brand new car. For possibly out of production projector parts, I don't think two week, or even a month, is unreasonable.

Heck, we don't even no where you're from since you haven't included a location in your profile. You could be from Suburbia... it might be that it just takes a month to ship stuff there.

Posted by Joe Beres (Member # 678) on 12-06-2002, 03:26 PM:

As Daryl said, perhaps you should have supplied all of the facts. One thing is obvious: You stated that Lavezzi said that the "Reason for the delay was [that Strong was] too busy with inventory." Pat Moore, "Vice President of Cinema Products for Strong Intl.", replied stating that Strong had not yet even begun their inventory. It sounds to me, based on the facts that you supplied, that Lavezzi is providing you with either false or skewed information. I agree with Mark that you should not be blaming Strong when it is more likely that your reseller is at fault. If anything, it sounds like you may not have all of facts yourself. I don't mean to sound rude, but why did you post your message, leaving out some of the facts, if you didn't want or expect people to reply? I think that an email pr phone call directly to Strong would have provided all the information you would require. As I have said, my dealings with Strong through a particular reseller have been great, but I can also say they were very receptive to my direct phone calls and questions. There is a reason that the company and their products have a good reputation. IMHO, Mark's comments were right on the money, and I think you'll find that his experience and knowledge make him and his comments invaluable to this forum.

Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 12-06-2002, 03:32 PM:

I never had any problems with part flow from Strong International through my dealer. My dealer (Vern Klingman of Cin-Tronics) and Strong International always seem to be "right on the ball."

Posted by Steve Kraus (Member # 476) on 12-06-2002, 03:48 PM:

I'm not aware that LaVezzi is a vendor of Strong parts but Strong dealers are vendors of Strong parts made by LaVezzi. Therefore your posting contains at least one falsehood. I'm also a bit surprised that LaVezzi would even be talking to you. Did they? Or are you reporting hearsay, that someone simply claimed that they said? People are responding to what you have said some of which doesn't make much sense. Why not give us the complete facts instead of berating people just because you don't like their reply?

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 12-06-2002, 03:50 PM:

Strong is usually quite good at delivering parts even on older obslete machines and even the old ORC line
2 weeks is not unreasonable in this day and age of most manufactureres sourcing is"just in time" delivery methods. No accountant will okay massive inventory of slow moving parts. Any part that was that mission criticle to an individuals operation should be on there own shelves

Posted by Jack Ondracek (Member # 1466) on 12-06-2002, 05:57 PM:

quote:
...from Mark G.
...waits of 6 to 8 weeks are not unusual as certain things are sometmies done out of their shop....anodizing, or plating for instance

That's familiar... I recently ordered rails, studio guides & the old one-piece gate pad for one of my Ballantynes. It didn't take that long to get them, but they were delayed somewhat and I was told that the above was what was going on. The parts arrived & installed without problem.

Posted by Pat Moore (Member # 380) on 12-06-2002, 06:11 PM:

FYI, I have contacted Konrad and he's gotten back to me, but still waiting for info on what parts were N/A so I can track it down a bit more. If these are somewhat esoteric 35/70mm parts they might take a little doing to get a hold of -- Mark and others are right, we haven't built a bunch of 35/70's lately [Frown]

.

LaVezzi is a prime vendor for us of many key components, and we supply a few things back to them as well. Their quandary is similar to ours -- the change in the business over the last few years makes inventory control critical.

Pat

Posted by Konrad Schiecke (Member # 393) on 12-06-2002, 07:04 PM:

For those that don't understand what the Lavezzi company has to offer other than being a major supplier of projection precision components
as Pat points out is that they are a dealer of there product directly to the service industry. This business started recently with them. In my case there were some parts that they didnot make or stock but they said that they would get them from the manufacturer,namely Strong . Yes I had many conversations with the sales person at LaVezzi since that is where the order was placed. I never called Strong because I did not place the order with them. Posting this issue was not ment to degrade Strong
but to get opinions on waiting time for parts and backordered parts with no delivery dates. Based on verbals with LaVezzi they identified the issue to be with Strong. If I didn't know the sales rep at lavezzi for about 20 years I would question them.

Posted by Don Sneed (Member # 955) on 12-06-2002, 11:15 PM:

I never ever had a problem with Strong, maybe it was a bad day they had, I always got my parts sent to me overnight & in stock, a few weeks ago I had their tech make me a special part in the field to get me up & going, how many companies do you know would go to that trouble on a part that was not their fault, it was the fault of Osram 5K bulbs [Eek!]

...Now if you were talking about Christie, I would believe anything, I have yet had Christie to send me a part overnight...Why you ask ?? Because Christie is alway out of stock & it is a couple of days to weeks before I get the part [Mad]

, Strong on the other hand is always in stock for me if not they will make one, thank you Strong [Big Grin]

....

Posted by John Hawkinson (Member # 1135) on 12-06-2002, 11:22 PM:

Steve K.: LaVezzi talks to anyone, you can even order ones-and-twos online at the LaVezzi Store.
Minimum order is USD$30.00 (sales tax in Illinois).

--jhawk

Posted by Pat Moore (Member # 380) on 12-06-2002, 11:43 PM:

We do generally try to please and I think, for the most part, we do that. Once in a while we miss and that just tells us things we need to work on. I think anyone that talks with our Customer Service or Tech Support people know any problems aren't from lack of effort. Thanks to those saying that...

Pat

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 12-07-2002, 12:07 AM:

Well there is just one person at LaVezzi I know that deals with the service companies for the movie industry...NORM! He has always done well by us as well...a real quandry in this instance.

As to LaVezzi dealing direct...generally you can do better by going through a dealer. There are several companies out there (mostly for consumables) that will deal direct since there may not be a dealer near the exhibitor but often the prices they charge are higher than if one dealed with a dealer.

Steve

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 12-07-2002, 02:54 PM:

Konrad said....
"Mark G. your comments are not appreciated since you don't know all the facts."

Geez....common Konrad.....Weather they were appreciated or not its my right to post what I did here as that has been my experience with them over the past 20 years. This forum is a great place to solve problems like this, and also to bash manufacturers, dealers, technicians, and other forum members when needed. But please, if you are going to bash anyone or any company here, please do post all the facts the first time around.
Again....
I was only reiterating my experiences with Strong in the past almost 20 years and through the many channels which I have delt with them. I'll state again that its very possible, and probable, that a dealer would have given you far better service(and perhaps price)than even your friend at LaVezzi had the time to give you. I'm sure that they are VERY busy there, and not just with the motion picture end of things. As I was once told by Al LaVezzi himself that the Motion Picture end of things accounts for a miniscule amount any more of their overall bottom line every year. Not that it isn't important though......they just do better making medical items, aerospace parts and the like. Considering all this, its doubtful that they would have many, if any, 35/70 X-L parts there, and with the overall decline in 70mm its also doubtful that Strong would either unless it was a common part that was used often.
Mark @ CLACO
CLACO Equipment And Service
Salt Lake City, UT

Posted by Richard Fowler (Member # 893) on 12-07-2002, 03:59 PM:

How many Simplex 35/70XL are still in service? It can not be a few handful at that which should not give a manufacturer a reason to do a production run to sit on the shelf. The late Howard Straight, formerly of MGM and later Simplex was the master of the machine and was a nice person to deal with.

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 12-07-2002, 05:04 PM:

There is at least one 35/70 X-L in a theatre near Cottonwood Mall in Salt Lake City. This is an ex- Cineplex Theatre. It has never had any 70mm run through it. I'd be willing to bet that Cineplex was the largest buyer of the 35/70 X-L of all time!!
Mark

Posted by Pat Moore (Member # 380) on 12-07-2002, 06:13 PM:

There are a BUNCH of 35/70 projectors out there -- but I doubt many of them are in condition to run 70mm film. I've seen a few with the Penthouse removed and nobody knew where the 70mm Trap and Gate were. Some have been converted to single format 35mm sprockets -- smart move, given the cost of the things. IF 70mm were to come back (right...), it would be a struggle for most theatres to get back to any ability to project a picture.

Mark's right, Cineplex may well have been the largest purchaser of 35/70's but there were others too back in the mid-late 80's.

Since most critical components of the projector are the same, parts issues should not be a big deal on 35/70 versions of the Simplex. The differences are obvious and common business sense necessitates a low stocking level of unique parts.

FYI -- I did receive from Konrad a list of parts he was looking for and I'll do a little research when I'm back in the States. In general, though, I do think Strong takes pretty good care of our customers and equipment, a lot of which is considerably older even than me! [Wink]

Pat