Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Analyze That- timecode problem?

This is topic Analyze That- timecode problem? in forum Film Handlers' Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.

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Posted by John T. Hendrickson, Jr (Member # 849) on 12-06-2002, 07:09 PM:

Both of my prints are experiencing problems holding the timecode. They are both in auditoriums where we have had no previous problems with our DTS units. I was wondering if anyone else has experienced problems? Print #'s are 4259 and 4260.

Posted by Darryl Spicer (Member # 711) on 12-06-2002, 08:06 PM:

Yes I had some problems on one of them. I had to make a latteral adjustment on the DTS reader head to correct the problem.

Posted by Kenneth Wuepper (Member # 1174) on 12-06-2002, 09:52 PM:

Do most of you folks have a multimeter and an oscilloscope in your booth?

I can't imagine making many adjustments "blind"

Perhaps I am too design oriented.

KEN

Posted by Jason Black (Member # 684) on 12-07-2002, 12:28 AM:

We're also having timecode problems with our print of Analyze That. I've turned off the DTS until so that the processor reverts to Dolby Digital and no sound loss is incurred.

Posted by Rick Long (Member # 213) on 12-07-2002, 12:34 AM:

C'mon Ken, you must know that any projectionist will do whatever he/she has to do to try and keep the perfomance top-notch, regardless of whether they have the technical test equipment or not.

Darryl's adjustment of the reader was, no doubt done out of fustration, and with his experience with some D.T.S prints (although I find that this re-adjustment is not as necessary as it was in the early days).

There are times when ya just gotta try whatever you think might work to keep the show going, and check it with the proper equipment, later.

The show must go on.

Posted by Kenneth Wuepper (Member # 1174) on 12-07-2002, 06:39 AM:

OK Rick,

I have saved a few shows by the seat of my pants over the last 52 years in the business. There is now doubt that clever operators can often save what could be major disasters through their manipulation of a situation. The show always comes first.

Having said that...

My question remains "How many booths are equipped with minimal equipment like a multimeter and an oscilloscope?"

Posted by Shaun Flichel (Member # 1435) on 12-07-2002, 08:56 AM:

I have yet to see a theatres with its own occilliscope, they are a pricy unit, but everybooth should have a multi-meter. The only time I have adjusted the lateral adjustment on the DTS reader is when the led is not on steady during the show, just tweak it one way or the other til the led is steady, and it should be ok.

Posted by Darryl Spicer (Member # 711) on 12-07-2002, 12:05 PM:

You do not need anything as far as test equipment to make the lateral adjustment. You just want to maintain a steady green light thru out every reel. Where you do not want to make blind adjustments is in the analog a-chain area. So really the lateral adjustment on the dts unit is not blind at all so long as you can maintain a steady green led. There was no frustration in my decision to do this. It was automatic from past experiences.

Posted by Thomas Procyk (Member # 1170) on 12-07-2002, 12:26 PM:

Haven't noticed any problems with the DTS on our print. I try to check all the prints at least at every reel, but being a "projectionist/doorman" they also give me stuff to do downstairs. I'll especially keep an eye on it now. [Smile]

=TMP=

Posted by Chris Tyson (Member # 992) on 12-07-2002, 02:51 PM:

We've got the same problem on our print (0442). We moved it to a dolby digital house and haven't had any problems. We put The Emperors Club in the same house that we had Analyze That in and it works just fine. I didn't want to mess with the reader for that film when everything else runs fine on it.

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 12-07-2002, 06:59 PM:

Has anyone measured the lateral position of the DTS timecode from the edge of the print on the problem prints? Are all the reels affected? What does the soundtrack application look like? --- does it cover the DTS track?

Posted by Steve Kraus (Member # 476) on 12-07-2002, 07:39 PM:

Seems like that would be right near the edge of application. What affect will inconsistency have?

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 12-08-2002, 06:50 AM:

If the edge of the application weaved in and out of the DTS track, I assume it could add some inconsistency in the ability to read the timecode.

Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 12-08-2002, 10:42 AM:

The print that I ran yesterday (print number in the low 000030s, but not an EK print...just a regular release print) played fine in DTS. Weird.

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 12-09-2002, 09:29 AM:

Again, the centerline of the DTS time code track should be 0.297 inches (7.54mm) from the reference edge of the print, per SMPTE Recommended Practice RP115.

Posted by John Hawkinson (Member # 1135) on 12-09-2002, 12:02 PM:

Incidently, John, how do you recommend measuring the positions of features on film? When I last tried this, I reached moderate success using the step measurement feature of a caliper from the reference edge, but there was a fair bit of inaccuracy.

Perhaps a ruler under a microscope would be better?

Any "tricks"?

--jhawk

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 12-09-2002, 12:43 PM:

Edmund Scientific and other suppliers carry loupes and measuring microscopes useful for making such measurements:

http://www.scientificsonline.com/EC/Products/Display.cfm?categoryid=192739

http://www.scientificsonline.com/EC/Products/Display.cfm?categoryid=192742

http://www.scientificsonline.com/ec/Products/Display.cfm?CategoryID=192683

Posted by Karen Hultgren (Member # 395) on 12-09-2002, 12:51 PM:

John,

If you choose to fiddle with the lateral adjustment, you can do so wothout a scope. Just turn slowly and then the other to find the "center". Be aware that if you compensate for this one film, you may need to do it again for others. It's best not to touch the laternal adjustment if it has been fine for other features.

You should also check the voltage of the reader's LED. There is tech notice for that on our free online techcnter Or, I can email it to you if you send me an email and request it.

If one reel of the film is bad, then you need to replace that reel.

Karen at DTS
khultgren@dtsonline.com

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 12-09-2002, 12:58 PM:

The measuring microscope/loupe would only be used to check the actual position of the time code track on the film, not to adjust the equipment. It would be unusual for a printing problem to affect ALL the reels, since they are printed one at a time, often on a different printer for each reel.

Posted by John T. Hendrickson, Jr (Member # 849) on 12-09-2002, 08:47 PM:

Thanks, Karen, but I generally subscribe to the "if it's not broken, don't fix it" school of thought. Since neither of these units has given us any problems, I'm hesitant to play with the lateral adjustment, for as you say, I'll probably have to do it again once these two prints leave their respective houses.

Posted by Karen Hultgren (Member # 395) on 12-16-2002, 03:04 PM:

An update, we just got a sample of ANALYZE THAT film and the DTS track looks very bad. If any of you still have a print with drop-out problems, could you please send me the print number(s)?

Thanks! Karen at DTS
khultgren@dtsonline.com