quote:

---

We may actually be able to acquire a CP650 for free from another theatre with a penthouse reader, or so I'm told.

---

How do you the equipment for free from another theater? Are they going to close or are you planning to raid them for the equipment?
 

---

Posted by Ian Price (Member # 14) on 12-15-2002, 10:08 AM:
 
The CP-50 isn't a good candidate to hook up Dolby Digital. Yes it can be done, but why? So minimum you need a new CP-650, a CAT-701 digital penthouse reader and one additional amp.

Dolby CP-650 $7,000
CAT-701 Dolby Digital Penthouse $2,500
Used QSC 1400 $200 plus $100 to have it rebuilt.

The only other problem is that the JBL 8330s sound great but can be a little bit delicate so don't go nuts. The JBL 8340 was designed to handle digital sound with more ruggedness. But peevishly obnoxious perfectionists will tell you that the 8330s sound better. Also, never give up the Voice of the Theatre speakers.

Now that is the inexpensive way to upgrade do Dolby Digital and that is what we have done. The, afore mentioned, peevishly obnoxious perfectionists will tell you that you need 4 subwoofers and a sound rack full of bi-amped QSC DCM amps.

(Always give Joe tons of )
 

---

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 12-15-2002, 11:01 AM:
 
I'll reply more on this when I get the time...but just WHERE are you getting a Dolby CP-650D for $7K?

Steve
 

---

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 12-15-2002, 11:07 AM:
 
QSC1400 amps for a proper SRD installation? And with those old VOTT Altec speakers? While I suppose 4 subs might be acceptable for a very small theater, geez that IS the inexpensive way out!

(Always give Ian tons of Especially when he poks fun at Joe when he hasn't even participated on the thread yet.)
 

---

Posted by Aaron Sisemore (Member # 145) on 12-15-2002, 01:46 PM:
 
The CP50 and CP55 require major modifications to be Dolby Digital-compatible.

I would say go with a Dolby CP65, USL JS/JSX, or Panastereo processor, as the DA20 just plugs in via a simple adapter.

If you want it all in a single box, there's always the CP500D and CP650D.

How large is the auditorium? Two subwoofers is overkill for a smaller auditorium.

The Altec mains and JBL surrounds should be fine for running SRD.

you will need three amplifiers if you are going passive and five amplifiers and an active crossover if you are planning on biamping. The QSC 1400 and USA900 are fine for this application.

-Aaron
 

---

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 12-15-2002, 03:17 PM:
 
The cp50 when modified will be as good as a cp65 except for the powersupply limitations
As for the VOT's if they are A4's sounds good but the smaller A5's and A7's just don't have the bottom end
 

---

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 12-15-2002, 06:00 PM:
 
Well right now everything is speculation, but what has been told to me is that a theater in our chain has two Dolby Digital units, the rest of the theaters have one each and we have none. I have absolutely no way to confirm this (except I do know that we have none, and another theater has two). I do know that the theater that has two doesn't even thread through the penthouse readers, as was told to me by one of their staff that transferred over. Some of the managers are thinking of asking the theater that has two to send us one of their Dolby Digital units. Easier said than done.

The other theater has a new CP650D and a penthouse reader (701). For them to send this all they would have to wire up some other sound processor immediately. And I figure they'd probably forget to send some crucial component anyway. So the managers have been asking what we would have to buy in addition to the stuff that could be sent to us.

The auditorium in question has about 300 seats and a large giant 33 foot screen. It is our biggest house and the biggest auditorium in the state of Colorado... at least on that block anyway They have 4 JBL surrounds per side. Not sure what model of VOTT speakers, but they are not bi-amped right now and they don't sound horribly bad in SR. Not horribly outstanding either, mind you.

I doubt this is going to happen. Should probably get our own stuff, eh?
 

---

Posted by Mike Olpin (Member # 1115) on 12-15-2002, 09:27 PM:
 
Hey - It's a Madstone Employee ( I presume from the poster behind you )

If any of you have a Madstone nearby, I highly recomend that you take in a film there. My local Madstone is awsome! They have great service, and there projection staff is really good. The image is always perfect, the sound is also good. I personaly have signed up for membership with them.

BTW - there are booth pictures from my local Madstone (san diego) in the pictures section of this website - they're labled Mann Hazard Center 7.

Madstone's Web Site
Membership Info
 

---

Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 12-16-2002, 12:04 AM:
 
Steve, it is competitive. Some states have a minimum mark-up law, some don't. If you shop around, you might find some equipment being sold for 5 to 10% over invoice. If you find a good deal somewhere and if one takes his time, he'll find a better deal somewhere else.

As an example, Wisconsin has a minimum of 6% mark-up if I recall correctly. Washington State has no such law that I know of. If we want to sell an item that carries a suggested list price of $10,500.00 - we can sell it at whatever we want. So, $7,000 for a CP-650 does not sound too far out of line. If I shopped around, I could probably find one for a little less than that, especially during "hard times."

If someone is a good negotiater, a used car advertized at 10,000 bucks can be had for about 5. Been there more than once on 50% reductions.

Same holds true in our industry. The key is, don't get "hot pants." Take your time and shop around, especially when the "inventory tax" people come around and starts to assess things.
 

---

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 12-16-2002, 12:09 AM:
 
I don't believe in ballpark figures since there are so many different ballparks!

Some questions...is the reason for digital for marquee value or to actually play it back properly? To just have marquee value one can do it on the cheap...a DA-20, a reader of some sort and a DTS D567 breakout board and you will have "Dolby Digital" but it most definately not be "proper."

As to Aaron's comments...

A CP-50 that has SR is pretty far along to being digital ready. A Cat. 560 and maybe a Cat 517 and you are the rest of the way there. I would put the Cat. 280Ts in an outboard frame though so the SR and digital levels will match. Panastereo just came out with the SR35 that should do...just get it without the CM353 cards.

A CP-55 doesn't require much in the way of modifications...it just needs a Cat. 441 upgrade and a few wires on the backplane...if it doesn't have SR...then get the above mentioned Panastereo SR35 (better than the dreaded Cat. 222SR/A and less expensive).

The audio performance of the CP-50, 55, or 65 are on par with each other once everyone is updated.

As to the subwoofers...almost without exception, the 2nd subwoofer is about the single best investment in a digital subwoofer system. You gain, typically 6dB improvement for relatively little cost. In all but the smallest of screening rooms, the second subwoofer will be necessary for proper digital playback. However, like everything else in the sound system, do the math, figure out how much you need then buy appropriately. You dealer should be able to do this, if they can't, find another dealer that can.

One must remember, the spec on a digital subwoofer is to play at 113dB in the middle of the room...that is a rather demanding task. As compared to an optical track's subwoofer, it is over 20dB more demanding in level and should go nearly another octave lower in frequency, further increasing the demands on it.

As to Gordy's comments on the Altecs...there is nothing wrong with an A-5 for digital reproduction...add some bass wings (2-feet minimum, 4-feet preferred) to each cabinet and watch/hear the response go down to 40Hz...without the wings...depending on vintage, 50-80Hz is more common (before EQ)...in any event an A-5 should get down to 50Hz with EQ. Do a search on Film-Tech to see a previous post I made regarding the A-7 used in a digital application.

As to sound transfer...the difference is amazing between optical and digital. First off, you have a potential 10dB difference in the level from the stage channels and over 20dB difference in the subwoofer (if you even have one for your optical films). That is in just raw level. The digital tracks reach MUCH lower in the frequency spectrum which will pass through inferrior walls as if they were not there. If your walls are not rated at least STC-75 (and I highly doubt they would be) then you will be heading for some sound transmission though the demising walls.

Steve
 

---

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 12-16-2002, 07:46 AM:
 
Actually a CP-55 is not nearly as costly to modify as a stock CP-50 is for SRD. Plus the CP55 already sounds as good as a CP65 to begin with....a stock CP-50 does not. Although I don't personally reccommend this....many theatres forgo any SR and just use type A since 98% of the time they will be playing Digital anyway. Remember that Dolby claimed that SR is at least somewhat audibly acceptable with type A playback anyway. I really don't agree though.

CP-55's can be had for as little as 500.00 if you hunt around. Adding split surrounds adds about 500.00 more, so for 1K you have a decent 5.1 channel processor thats ready to receive your DTS, or Dolby Digital adaptor.
Another way to lower cost is to buy the BACP penthouse in place of the CAT 701. Its a much better penthouse anyway, so why not save here!!

As for the CP-650....if you are a shopping mall theatre perhaps, but I just tuned a bunch of them last week in a new installation and I'm still not impressed. That harshness on the extreme high end is still there. If your chain is really into quality then they will go with an analog processor of some type and a digital add on. This method still affords the highest quality reproduction available today.

Mark @ CLACO
 

---

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 12-16-2002, 11:36 AM:
 
Does the CP55 drop the surrounds by 3db like the 65 does in digital?
 

---

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 12-16-2002, 11:39 AM:
 
Actually, the CP-65 raises the surrounds in optical...it doesn't drop in digital. Since that is a function of the Cat. 441 card, a CP-55 that has been "upgraded" will also raise the surrounds in optical by 3dB

Steve
 

---