Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: oscilliscope

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Posted by Bas Haldermans (Member # 1521) on 12-21-2002, 11:14 AM:

Hi,

I'm looking for a new oscilliscope, wat kind do you use?

Greetings bas

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 12-21-2002, 11:34 AM:

There is only one Oscilloscope to own! Tektronix. New is VERY expensive but you can get slightly used late model or clean older CRT type on E-Bay for little money. Go for at least 100 mhz frequency response.
I use a circa 1984 model 465B Tek scope that also has the DMM on top of it. The DMM also has a temperature meter in it which comes in handy too. The trace is bright and sharp as a tack....it always works, but the one down side is that it is quite heavy. The inside is almost a work of art in itself. I also own a 7704A 250 mhz quad trace unit, and a 7623A 100mhz storage scope but both of these are shop units. Also check out the TM-500 units such as DMM, Scope, generators, etc. as they are very handy, well made and super accurate too.
There is also the Tek Scopes Group at the Yahoo groups site:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TekScopes/
Mark @ CLACO

Posted by Jon Bartow (Member # 241) on 12-21-2002, 12:06 PM:

I second the motion, get a tektronix scope. I use a 4ch 100mHz model myself that was formerly owned by the US Air Force. Yes a bit heavy, but worth it. For Dolby digital alignment 20mHz is a minimum, but the 100 or higher is better. E-bay is where I bought mine.
Jonathan

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 12-21-2002, 05:52 PM:

Leader made a excellent battery operated mini scope 60Mhz as well they are usally on Ebay a lot
Also BK had a small 20 mHz battery operated one the 1422
This shows the leader scope and R2 in a Rackmount SKB case

and this is it on a Cart with the R2 and laptop

You don't want a big heavy brute to lug around my test kit box already weighs in at 85lbs and as such I get lots of grief at the airport

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 12-21-2002, 07:37 PM:

I have the same Leader scope that Gord has and have had alot of trouble with it....granted it has taken quite a beating and seen alot of use too. A few years back mine had a power supply problem that cost almost 400.00 to have repaired at the factory. Second time it died the intensity pot opened up and I had no trace. Replaced the pot and its working again, but I have given up on it and stuck with the ole reliable 465B again. The Leader has been relegated to the backup equipment pile now as I can no longer trust it for day in and day out use.....
Mark @ CLACO

Posted by Kenneth Wuepper (Member # 1174) on 12-21-2002, 09:19 PM:

Hello, Bas,

I have had wonderful results with the Tektronix scopes. Perhaps you could find one on eBay with the required power supply for your area.

Dual trace, 100 M Hz bandwidth and the ability to plot the two inputs in X/Y mode are essential. Most stereo decoding requires correct phase relationships and these are found only through X/Y plots.

Having the scope serve as a Digital Meter is a fine perk but not required if you have a good portable digital multimeter. The ability to measure frequency and elaborate triggering capability are not essential either as the waveforms in Cinema Audio are not very complex.

The 450 series of Tektronix scopes work well for these measurements.

KEN

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 12-21-2002, 09:27 PM:

My leader only has had one service call and that was for a very expensive Varactor diode that failed
other than that it is very reliable
If you are doing field service size and weight are a very criticle point

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 12-21-2002, 10:27 PM:

Gord, I think reliability comes first when you are in the field hundreds of miles away from the shop and another replacement piece of test equipment. Weight can be a factor when flying to some extent though. There are Tek scopes smaller than the Leader which will work well and are far more reliable and better built. My Leader has seen better days and hundreds of road and air trips over the last ten years. For those that fly alot an all solid state scope with LCD screen might be the better route to go. They weigh even less than the Leader does.
Mark @ CLACO

Posted by Jon Bartow (Member # 241) on 12-22-2002, 07:47 AM:

Is money no object? then check out one of these:
Fluke Scopemeter 190C

[Big Grin]

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 12-22-2002, 10:24 AM:

We have a Fluke Scope/Meter...it is just for the shop though or for non-A-chain field use. It is a fine meter and Scope but only a fool would try to perform an A-chain with one...particularly the X-Y plot. I don't even like the Tek LCD X-Y plots...something CRT based systems still rank supreme.

Steve

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 12-22-2002, 10:59 AM:

To date there are no digital lcd type scopes that are worth using for a chains and even worse try to line up a reader with one none update the screen fast enough
As for airmiles on a scope my leader probably has far far more considering the width of this country alone it travels across as well as off shore. Had one problem with it since I bought it used almost 10 years ago
The only tek mini scope I have seen was the Sony Tec serries and they had a phase problem and if you did a X/Y for an azimuth a straight line was 90 degree off a circle was in phase due to the phase error of there input

Posted by Greg Mueller (Member # 17) on 12-22-2002, 12:39 PM:

I got the cheapest 20mhz dual trace scope I could find which was a Tenma. It cost about $300. So far so good

Posted by Aaron Sisemore (Member # 145) on 12-22-2002, 01:00 PM:

Same scope I have, Greg. Bulky as all hell, but it does get the job done, and takes quite a beating. As much as I would like one of the little Leader LBO-315's, I will have to stick it out with this baby.

I also agree with Steve about the LCD scope/meters, I watched as Helmut from THX was A-chaining one of our theatres during a certification (with a Tektronix LCD scope) and for the life of me I couldn't see how he could get a good X/Y picture on the thing [Roll Eyes]

-Aaron

Posted by Ken Lackner (Member # 1002) on 12-23-2002, 11:25 AM:

I'm glad this came up. I was thinking about making a post asking about the Fluke scope meter. Why is it not good for doing A chains? Sure would be handy, wouldn't it? Oh well.

Posted by Bas Haldermans (Member # 1521) on 12-23-2002, 11:33 AM:

Thanks for the information. I'm going to look at ebay.
I agree on the digital scopes, i saw the xy picture but it was't good.

Bas

Posted by Bas Haldermans (Member # 1521) on 12-23-2002, 11:34 AM:

Thanks for the information. I'm going to look at ebay.
I agree on the digital scopes, i saw the xy picture but it was't good.

Bas

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 12-23-2002, 12:51 PM:

Here is an ebay link to one on ebay right now
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=4677&item=3101503903

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 12-23-2002, 04:38 PM:

I'll sell you mine for 50 bucks U.S. plus shipping!
Mark

Posted by John Westlund (Member # 913) on 12-28-2002, 07:36 PM:

Im bumping this up because I was wondering if anyone has used a Leader LBO-518. Its a quad channel 100mhz. I can pick one up for a good price but wonder what you think about it first. Thanks
John

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 12-28-2002, 07:59 PM:

My overall experience with Japaneese test gear is that its lightly built as compared to HP(Agilent), or Tektronix stuff. The stuff is really good on the bench, but NOT made for beating around and won't take the amount of abuse that field service work will give to it over say 10 years. Also keep in mind that you HAVE to go to an authorized Leader dealer to get any part or accessory you need for the thing, and you'll more than likely pay list price too. Thats the way they are and there's no way around it. If you send it in for a simple repair, expect to have to pay for a full calibration as well.

You can buy parts and accessories direct from Tektronix, and I think HP(now Agilent)as well. Their equipment is less likely to fall apart and go out of calibration. Another nice thing about the older TEK scopes is that they specify every how many hours the instrument needs to be calibrated to maintain its accuracy.....never seen that in a Japaneese test instrument manual.
Mark @ CLACO

Posted by Chris Markiewicz (Member # 1415) on 12-29-2002, 12:41 AM:

I also have a 20 MHz Tenma 'scope. It's bulky and clumsy but reliable. When I was at the Keauhou 7 I swiped a heavy Rubbermaid food service cart from downstairs and turned it into the booth service cart with the scope and toolboxes on it.

Posted by Oscar Neundorfer (Member # 458) on 12-29-2002, 07:31 AM:

Tektronix 2213, 2215 or 2215A. I have a number of these in the factory and have used them in the field. Very high quality, lightweight, not too big, and considering the many I have, very reliable. It is an older design, and not in the Tek line anymore, but they can be had through a lot of the equipment leasing companies such as Tucker, Leaseametric and others.

Posted by Christopher Seo (Member # 7) on 12-29-2002, 02:48 PM:

Does anybody use B+K Precision 'scopes? I have a full-sized, 100 MHz 2190B model, which I got new for a good price. It's bulky but works fine. Don't know how it would stand up to abuse though.

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 12-29-2002, 04:14 PM:

We used a B&K for over 10-years on the road...still working...kinda...the various pots have become noisy so the trace might jump around....relatively minor and fixable.

I'm proud to say that I've been toating a Heath 20MHz scope now for over 15 years.

We have a Kenwood scope (40MHz) that has done ok for the last 6 or so years. The position pots are a bit touchy for my liking but other than that...good clear display everytime.

Steve