Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Stopping and restarting a movie after 15 minutes...

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Posted by Evans A Criswell (Member # 381) on 01-01-2003, 09:34 PM:

A quick question...

I attended a sneak preview of "Just Married" at Regal Hollywood 18 here in Huntsville tonight. The show was supposed to start at 7:30 PM. I got there early and few people were in the auditorium at 7:00, but the show was started. At 7:15, the mistake was realized and the show was stopped.

The question is: When using platters, how long does it take to get the film setup properly to restart from the beginning?

The show was restarted from the point it was stopped, so that most of the people in the nearly-sold-out auditorium missed the first 10 minutes of the movie (there were about 5 minutes of previews).

Posted by Daryl C. W. O'Shea (Member # 1303) on 01-01-2003, 09:38 PM:

Depends on whether or not you can do a center drop on the platter. If you can a few minutes should be sufficient.

Posted by Evans A Criswell (Member # 381) on 01-01-2003, 09:48 PM:

Well, assuming you have 15-25 minutes, is that more than sufficient, assuming worst case? Note: I'm not an operator. I'm trying to get an idea of whether the film was not restarted from the beginning because of laziness or because of infeasibility. I review the presentation quality of theatres in my area and the score assigned for this presentation will heavily depend on this. I'm asking this question here because I want to be fair in the way I grade this one.

Posted by Daryl C. W. O'Shea (Member # 1303) on 01-01-2003, 10:02 PM:

That would be plenty of time -- if the equipment will allow it. With 15 minutes of film already payed-out you should be able to do it on almost anything. Some setups may require cutting the film to do it safely though.

I suspect that (especially being a Wednesday night) the operator just didn't know what to do. It's probably not one of the first things to come to mind for someone that doesn't have much experience.

Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 01-01-2003, 10:16 PM:

I do as Daryl does.

Simply (in an embarrasing manner) shut the machine down, and shut off the platter motors. Release the back-tension on the take-up and un-thread the projector. Remove the take-up ring from the takeup platter, and roll up the film between that ring and the pay-out head. Then unthread the pay-out head, "pop" the take-up ring, and flop the film back into the pay-out and rethread and re-start.

It should not be necessary to cut the film.

Then, chew out the ushers for not catching your error and staying silent about it. The floor staff should work with you, and not against you.

Most of the time when I screw up and start a movie at the wrong time, it is usually within two or three minutes before I get word from the floor staff that an error happened. I am usually still in the previews, and I will let that preview expend before I shut down. I take no action of winding it back up.

If I am into the show, that's a different matter, obvoiusly. When I roll it up, I will remove the previews after I drop the heap back into the center in event of a quick turn-around that could effect the start of the next run of that movie. However, I never had that happen were I was already into the show before the error was discovered.

Whatever I do, it usually takes about 3 to 4 minutes to correct.

Posted by Daryl C. W. O'Shea (Member # 1303) on 01-01-2003, 10:23 PM:

The only time you should have to cut the film is if your projector has conduit running out the front of it which you can't get the film around or if you have 'dumbly' designed control plates that you can't pull the film 'up out of' -- like _some_ Alpha 3's.

All projectionists running platters should know how to do this... especially if they ever expect an extended power outage mid-show and don't want to loose their next round of shows.

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 01-01-2003, 10:25 PM:

It's actually easier to restart the film from the beginning. It is also much better for the film's sake than to try and start at the feature.

Gee, this doesn't seem to be a problem with theaters that have CA21 automations. [thumbsup]

Posted by Evans A Criswell (Member # 381) on 01-01-2003, 10:29 PM:

OK. I decided to make a rather harsh 20 point decuction since three errors were made:

1. starting at the wrong time and not catching it for 15 minutes

2. not correctly restarting the movie from the beginning

3. telling people that went out to complain that "they were going to rewind the movie" (ha) while they never corrected the problem.

I also took couple points for volume being too low. I couldn't hear some of the quieter dialog since this auditorium was quite packed, and I was sitting in the third row of the stadium section (about halfway back). I felt sorry for people behind me and in the very back.

quote:

2003/01/01 19:30, Auditorium 13

Just Married

Grade: -22 (Current grade weight : 1.0000)

Image comments: Excellent.

Audio comments: Digital. Volume was too low, making dialogue hard to understand at times in this crowded auditorium. (-2)

Other comments: Auditorium width: 32 feet. Screen width: 27.5 feet (flat mode). Flat film. Projector was started at 7:00 instead of 7:30. The projector was stopped at 7:15 and instead of restarting from the beginning, the film was restarted from where it left off, 10 minutes into the movie. The majority of the people in this nearly-sold-out auditorium did not get to see the first 10 minutes of the movie because of this. (-20)

Problem codes: O20 d2

This will be posted on hsvmovies.com later tonight.

Posted by Daryl C. W. O'Shea (Member # 1303) on 01-01-2003, 10:32 PM:

Of course if you forget that the sneak show doesn't have the same start time as the bumped show you'll probably still program the start timer wrong. (At least I hope the bumped show was supposed to start at 7:00)

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 01-01-2003, 10:33 PM:

Nah, the programming would have been done for that particular movie, not the time slot.

Posted by Evans A Criswell (Member # 381) on 01-01-2003, 10:37 PM:

Good point about the start time of the bumped show. Here is something else that probably led to the error: The ticket said auditorium 15, while the usher said it would be in house 13. I'll bet something was not updated properly because of the auditorium change.

Anyway, I got to see the entire movie, but I have to consider it from the viewpoint of the many people who came in between 7:15 and 7:30, many of whom got quite upset about it. Since it was a one-show sneak preview, they couldn't just sit in on the first 10 minutes of the next show or get a pass and see it again the next night, either.

Posted by Dustin Mitchell (Member # 372) on 01-01-2003, 11:48 PM:

My procedure is the same as Paul's for these things. Its only happened to me a few times. Usually I realize my error before the ads are even done. I wait to the end of the ad and stop the projector. I don't bother to drop the ads back in.

As to your show being quiet, my preview print didn't come with DTS disks, I imagine none of them did. If it was a DTS the projectionist should have turned off the player for that show and turned the volume control up if necessary for the analog presentation.

Finally, on the auditorium change, 'Just Married' replaced the 7 show of 'Drumline.' I'm not sure how that movie is doing in your area, but around here it doesn't rate our largest auditorium. Not a bomb mind you, just not selling out. The theatre likely did some shuffling of prints when they realized how well the sneak was going to do.

Posted by Mathew Molloy (Member # 666) on 01-01-2003, 11:48 PM:

A one-show sneak preview SHOULD have a qualified operator with the proper know-how. However, I don't know many manager/operators who DO know how to do this. Does this theatre have a dedicated projectionist?

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 01-02-2003, 05:02 AM:

In my spectacular theater, we sometimes start a show that ends up not selling any tickets. The other guys just motor the print through. I stop and center drop the thing, without cutting and without getting the leader on the floor. Also, I have Strong platters with the unfriendly brains/control plates that are not fun to try to unthread (I modified that part to make them easy to thread and unthread). Usually I'll stop the movie 20 minutes after it has started. The "played through" part sits on top of the print outwardly so half of it is slanted upward, so to speak. Pays out through the modified Strong brain perfectly. The whole process takes around 5 minutes AT THE MOST.

So yeah, they definitely had the time to set things right. They just didn't have the know-how. [Frown]

Posted by Bernie Anderson Jr (Member # 410) on 01-02-2003, 08:44 AM:

This is the kind of thing that really pisses me off. Now, we've all at one time or another miss-read a schedule and started a machine a little early but caught the mistake. But the fact that they started it early and then picked up where they left off is unacceptable. I consider myself very professional as a projectionist. There are right ways to do things and then there are wrong ways to do things. We renegotiated our contract with AMC and got another year out of them, for less pay mind you. But all we heard is that we don't need you people (projectionist) anymore, you're dinosaurs. Oh really? That's why films are out of focus, out of frame, scratched on the first show, start films at the wrong time and so on. Sorry to bitch and moan, but the arrogance of these theatre chains has gotten out of hand.

Posted by Ken Lackner (Member # 1002) on 01-02-2003, 09:17 AM:

I know how to do a center drop and have done them before, but how exactly are you supposed to do it without touching the image of the film and without any leader or film touching the floor? That is why I do not like doing center drops.

Posted by Steve Kraus (Member # 476) on 01-02-2003, 11:06 AM:

Was this a general sneak open to the public (advertised and admission charged) or was a private "word-of-mouth" sneak paid for by the studio? If so was there a publicist representing Fox present at the screening? If not then you should get in touch with them and let them know that their screening was mucked up and a significant chunk of the film was not shown to their invited guests. They shouldn't have to pay for it if the job they hired the theatre to do was not done.

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 01-02-2003, 11:11 AM:

[thumbsdown]

What a lack of showmanship. [Frown]

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 01-02-2003, 12:47 PM:

quote:
but how exactly are you supposed to do it without touching the image of the film and without any leader or film touching the floor?

It's actually very easy, but difficult to put into words. Yet another future addition to the tips section.

Posted by Mark J. Marshall (Member # 1409) on 01-02-2003, 02:47 PM:

I hesitated to post this... for about a minute.

You could

Speedwind to a reel splice, and break the splice and peel the tape off both sides
Thread and start the first part of the film from the platter
As the end of the first part is nearing, pull all the film through to give you enough time to make a splice (20 seconds or so)
Thread the 2nd half of the film through the payout side of the platter
Splice the tail of part one to the head of part two (you can get away with a one sided splice if necessary, then come back and fix it later)
Stand back

Recommend you have the film going through the film cleaner on its way to the projector to clean off any dirt picked up along the way. Not as difficult or as hard on the film as it sounds IF done correctly. But it does take practice, and - some would say - nerves of steel. [Wink]

Mark

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 01-02-2003, 02:52 PM:

"Nerves of steel" or not, that method has a high risk of damaging the print. [thumbsdown]

Posted by Charles Everett (Member # 889) on 01-02-2003, 03:00 PM:

Steve: That botched show of Just Married was a public sneak preview. Fox ran ads for the sneak in all the New Year's Day newspapers.

Posted by Mark J. Marshall (Member # 1409) on 01-02-2003, 03:32 PM:

quote:
that method has a high risk of damaging the print.

Sure does. It takes a lot of practice (on trailers and junk film), and I don't recommend it, but it is an option used by some, myself included, to save the show.

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 01-02-2003, 03:44 PM:

A "center drop" could be done just as fast, with much less risk of print damage than trying to splice "on the fly". You'd still "save the show", while not damaging the print for subsequent showings.

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 01-02-2003, 03:49 PM:

While I agree with John a center drop is not only safer, but just as fast, there still remains no reason to make a cut in the film to restart a show.

Posted by Mark J. Marshall (Member # 1409) on 01-02-2003, 04:04 PM:

The other day we had a new guy threading the platters, and he walked away a little too soon only to come back later and find a brain wrap of the first two and a half reels as the payout was spinning out of control. Can't do a center drop there because the film was wound backwards around the brain. We used the technique described above separating the trailers from the movie and then reattaching. There was no damage, to the print or the trailers afterward.

Not too long ago, the managers rushed the projectionist to put together a print, and he ended up with a reel on backwards. The movie wasn't screened prior to the opening, and consequently, there were 350 screaming kids and parents that morning. Within about 10 minutes, the reel was speed wound on the platter, pulled off, rewound, put back on an empty platter, reattached facing the right way, and back on screen. No part of the movie was missed. When the end of that reel went through, the remainder was reattached on the fly, and there was no further interruption. There was no damage, to the print, nor dirt nor scratches afterward.

I'll grant that these problems are both operator error, but so is starting the movie way early. I'll also grant that this method isn't *necessary* to fix the problem described in this thread. But it is an option. Although admittedly not the best option. It's also a handy technique to have at your disposal in rare circumstances. Not for the faint of heart, and not recommended, but possible.

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 01-02-2003, 04:52 PM:

I've never had to do a center drop (lucky I guess) but I would have to cut the film because it's impossible to slip the film out of the tension sensor any other way. I hate that thing.

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 01-02-2003, 05:10 PM:

Mike, what kind of platter do you have that has this awful tension sensor?

Posted by Michael Gonzalez (Member # 593) on 01-02-2003, 05:11 PM:

I agree that a center drop is the best way to go. However, simply cutting the film, starting the first part (letting it run all the way through) and then thread and start the second part. Yes the audience see a break in the movie and it adds an extra splice to the print. But it is still better than the audience missing ten minutes of the movie and it is the easiest way for a new or inexperanced booth operater to fix the problem.