Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Print spoking and humidity

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Posted by Adam Martin (Member # 641) on 01-02-2003, 07:12 PM:

I have a print here that is spoking for reasons that I cannot figure out. Relative humidity is 47%. Normally, prints here start spoking when RH gets below about 35%.

Of the 24 prints in this room, this is the only one doing this. The print is The Lion King and RPG Productions says it was printed on Kodak Vision Premier stock and is not treated in any way.

The print has been in this condition since it arrived at the theater in October. Normally, a print will arrive in a funky condition and will ease up as the emulsion soaks up moisture from the air over the first week in the booth.

In this photo, the print in question is shown with another non-spoking print.

The print is not damaged in any way and looks just fine on screen. What gives?

Posted by Claude S. Ayakawa (Member # 1401) on 01-02-2003, 07:22 PM:

Adam,

What gives? I thought Disney only released the movie in IMAX at Christmas.

-Claude

Posted by Adam Martin (Member # 641) on 01-02-2003, 08:17 PM:

This is at an Imax theater. And yes, we do have 24 prints for this one screen. [Eek!]

With eight more prints on the way in the next six months.

Posted by Claude S. Ayakawa (Member # 1401) on 01-02-2003, 09:53 PM:

Adam.

How is it possible you are showing other IMAX films in addition to "THE LION KING"? The Disney film is showing five times a day at the Waikiki IMAX in Honolulu with two showings at 3:00 and 9:00 PM of the 'In House' IMAX film "HIDDEN HAWAII. When "BEAUTY & THE BEAST" played in this theatre this time last year, the theatre was not permitted to show any other film from what I have been told.

-Claude

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 01-02-2003, 10:01 PM:

We have 48 prints at Cinesphere minimum at any time
This spoking is always odd occurance ecept for 2 films that spoke at any humidity for no reason

Posted by Adam Martin (Member # 641) on 01-02-2003, 10:42 PM:

We have a valuable school group program here that we were not willing to give up for a film that doesn't deserve to play full-schedule for four months straight.

What are those two funky prints of yours, Gordon? They wouldn't happen to be on triathlon stock, would they?

Posted by Michael West (Member # 428) on 01-02-2003, 10:55 PM:

i have the same thing with part one of starwars aotc, my liom king is fine.

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 01-02-2003, 11:10 PM:

No they predate Triathelon
Africa the Seringeti and Ring of Fire are the two bad boys

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 01-03-2003, 08:58 AM:

"Spoking" is usually due to excessive film curl from very low humidity. However, excessive winding tension can also cause spoking. It may also be possible the print was stretched slightly due to excessive tension at some point in its life:

http://www.kodak.com/country/US/en/motion/support/technical/hand.shtml

http://www.kodak.com/country/US/en/motion/newsletters/pytlak/sept99P.shtml

Posted by Adam Martin (Member # 641) on 01-03-2003, 04:20 PM:

Hmmm ... RPG preassembled this print, as they did with Beauty and the Beast. Disney pays them extra for this service.

Combined with the other Lion King problems we encountered getting this film ready and previous problems with BATB, it looks like Disney can expect a phone call from me on Monday. They will have to add me to the list of theaters that wish to receive their large format prints shipped unassembled on cores. In the future, Disney prints preassembled by RPG will be refused. If I'm going to have to meticulously inspect all of their work, I might as well just do it myself and then I won't be able to complain about it.

Ironically, Ultimate X arrived in perfect condition last summer.

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 01-03-2003, 07:03 PM:

To bad it wasn't DKP70mm Inc as I have never rejected one of there prints.
I ask for all new films to arrive unassembled and then we do it ourselves with the UltraSonic splicer

Posted by Dick Vaughan (Member # 540) on 01-07-2003, 03:45 PM:

We're not playing Lion King here in Bradford but I just got off the phone after talking to the guys at the IMAX theatre in Bournemouth.

They are also experiencing the spoking effect on their print of Lion King.

BTW Adam I haven't forgotten you. I will post your beer vouchers from Toronto next week [Wink]

Posted by William Leland III (Member # 1400) on 01-07-2003, 06:37 PM:

At the Charleston IMAX our " Lion King " print is also spoking. We also had problems with SWEP:II spoking.

We have a de-humidity in our booth. Do all IMAX booth have one also?

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 01-08-2003, 08:30 AM:

William Leland III wrote: "We have a de-humidity in our booth. Do all IMAX booth have one also?".

Kodak recommends film projection rooms be maintained at 50 to 60 percent relative humidity for optimum print performance. I recall that IMAX specs are similar, with a bit more range allowed on the low side.

Most facilities will require adding moisture (humidification), especially during the heating season or in desert environments. Theatres in humid or tropical areas (like Charleston SC) may need additional dehumidification if their HVAC systems cannot keep the humidity lower than about 65% on wet or humid days.

Posted by Adam Martin (Member # 641) on 01-08-2003, 10:27 AM:

Imax specs the booth at 40-60% RH. Usually, the air handler is specified to include an outboard steam humidifier in the ductwork for use during the dry season and a programmable re-heat system to dehumidify the air during the rainy season. What actually gets installed is usually another story.

Emerson makes some really nice large capacity portable humidifiers in their MoistAir line. Don't forget the proper chemicals to help prevent bacteria growth and filter scaling in your portable.

Portable dehumidifiers are also available, but they either need to be constantly emptied or hooked up to a drain. If the air handler can be programmed for re-heat dehumidification, it is much more effective.

Posted by William Leland III (Member # 1400) on 01-08-2003, 10:36 AM:

Thanks for the info on the humidifier. It is very helpful.

Will