Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: DTS Sub problem.

This is topic DTS Sub problem. in forum Film Handlers' Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.

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Posted by Aldo Baez (Member # 790) on 01-07-2003, 03:56 AM:

We recently moved one of our LOTR prints to a house that has dolby digital as its main format, it also has the ability to plug in an external DTS unit to it. Running LOTR in Dolby digital we get too many dropouts(probably the print we had no problem with the previous movie, yes it's a basement reader), so I decided to run it in DTS. On the CP500 screen I noticed that the subwoofer is not used at all. All the other speakers/channels are used but the sub (Even during very loud scenes where the sub should definately be used). The thing is when I switch it over to Dolby Digital sk8, the sub is used (at least on the cp500 screen) and I can definately hear it in the auditorium.

Is there any way to fix this?

It is a Christie package, with a CP500, it has EX capabilities (SA-10)? It has QSC-700 amps, the thing I plug the various DTS connections into is a USL DPP10 (sorry I don't know what the exact term for it is.) I don't know whether its the connection to the CP500 (I checked the connections in the back and they all look ok) or if it's something that I will have to call a technician out for.
I know my way around the cp500 menus a bit so if anyone has any ideas (nothing that will blow it up [Razz]

) please post

Thanks

Posted by Mike Rendall (Member # 1499) on 01-07-2003, 05:57 AM:

It sounds like the cable may not be wired properly. If you look at the dts manual (on this site) page 45 I think tells you about the problems with a CP500 and dts6D and a non-functioning sub.

Did the 6D used to be wired with a different processor before? Maybe it is the the wiring in the USL thingy?

Mike

Posted by Antonio Marcheselli (Member # 373) on 01-07-2003, 07:37 AM:

Mike is absolutely right if you have NO subwoofer on DTS sound.
On the troubleshooting DTS manual you can find:

So check if your unit is 6 (two drivers) or 6D (three drives) and make the modification.

Bye

Posted by Jon Bartow (Member # 241) on 01-07-2003, 08:24 AM:

Aldo,
regardless of whether or not you see anything on the CP500 screen, are you getting anything out of the sub in the auditorium? If so, leave well enough alone.
Has the DTS unit been set up properly for use with multiple houses (i.e. all outputs set the same so that they work in every house?) Do you have one of the setup discs so that you can test the sub output?
Are you using format 11 external 6-channel or are you using a custom user format based on format 11 for your DTS?

Are you using the SA-10 for DTS as well as Dolby digital? If not it is easy to set up. What I have done is make an adaptor for the back of the SA-10. One side a DB25M the other side a DB25F. Pins 1-13 connected pin to pin except pins 5 and 8 crossed. remaining pins not connected. This is for the SA-10 automation input connector. This is assuming that you have Dolby Digital-EX set up for sk8 (lower right) and DTS set up for sk5 (upper right). Then a DPDT toggle switch (I used a ON-OFF-ON type) mounted somewhere (on the adaptor or on the front of the rack somewhere so that you can bypass the adaptor for normal Dolby-EX.
Jonathan

Posted by Karen Hultgren (Member # 395) on 01-07-2003, 11:40 AM:

ALdo,

Use a DTS setup disc and test the DTS player's outputs. Perhaps the sub pot on the DTS player is turned down (it is a 20-turn pot). If that doesn't work, use the setup disc and check the DTS sub output with a meter directly at the back of the DTS unit. You should see at least 300mV RMS.

Karen at DTS
khultgren@dtsonline.com

Posted by Aldo Baez (Member # 790) on 01-08-2003, 02:51 AM:

Jon, there is no sound coming from the sub in the auditorium in DTS.

Antonio, which cable is the ANALOG cable exactly? Is it labeled? I have a 6D.

Karen, I don't have a DTS setup disc unforunately, how can I get one?

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 01-08-2003, 04:12 AM:

Aldo, Antonio is on the right track. You HAVE to pull pins 16 and 18 from the audio cable if you want dts sub with a CP500. You don't have to buy their special cable, just get a pair of needlenose pliers out and yank them out of the male end.

Posted by Antonio Marcheselli (Member # 373) on 01-08-2003, 04:17 AM:

Aldo

Since there is no sound from the subwoofer in the auditorium there something to fix... [Smile]

However, I've read again your first message, you said that DTS cables end to an USL and I really don't know what is an "USL DPP10". Someone can help better of me on this.

It sounds strange for me: what could be between CP500 and DTS6D?

However, the audio cable is the one that are connected on the "Analog out" connector on the back of your DTS6D. IF this cable is directly connected to the CP500 you should find that the end of the cable that you connect on the CP are missing of two pins: 18 and 24.
Usually a cable that seems the same is used to connect the "automation" connector from the DTS to the CP500 "automation" connector. This cable has all pins. If you swap for mistake the cable, the result will be no subwoofer in the auditorium.

Karen is right too. You should check that all analog out, using the DS3 disk, are set at 300mV with the reference tone.

But before adjusting the level: Do you use this DTS player just on one screen with Dolby Digital too? Or do you use it also in other sound rack alone, without any digital format?

You can download 6D manual from DTS or from Film-Tech.

Hope that this can help!!

Bye

Posted by Karen Hultgren (Member # 395) on 01-08-2003, 11:32 AM:

Aldo,

You can get a DTS setup disc from any of our dealers listed on our web site at www.dtsonline.com/cinema The current disc is the DS3 that is used with the E313-00 breadout board and D561 adapter for DTS-6 units.

Also, Brad has a good point, you must removed pins 16, 18, and 21 on the audio cable from the DTS-6D to the CP500. A drawing of it is in the DTS-6D manual. If you do not have a manual, go to our free online techcenter (same address as web site). All our manuals are posted there.

Karen at DTS
khultgren@dtsonline.com

Posted by Antonio Marcheselli (Member # 373) on 01-08-2003, 12:14 PM:

Hey Karen!

I said it first!!! [Wink]

Posted by Daryl C. W. O'Shea (Member # 1303) on 01-08-2003, 01:53 PM:

quote:
However, the audio cable is the one that are connected on the "Analog out" connector on the back of your DTS6D. <snip> Usually a cable that seems the same is used to connect the "automation" connector from the DTS to the CP500 "automation" connector. This cable has all pins. If you swap for mistake the cable, the result will be no subwoofer in the auditorium.

If these cables were swapped you would have no digital sound at all.

Posted by Aldo Baez (Member # 790) on 01-08-2003, 02:36 PM:

I'm gonna have to take a picture just to make sure before pulling any pins out. WiIll post it tomorrow.

Antonio I just use it on this screen as a backup sound format in instances such as this as it is our second biggest house. I think I know which cable you are talking about but we have an adapter in the back connected to the cp500 so I don't know whether to take it out of the adapter or the cable itself.

Posted by John Hawkinson (Member # 1135) on 01-08-2003, 05:19 PM:

Hey, Karen, is it legit to post .iso images of the DTS setup discs somewhere (like on Film-Tech, if Brad was willing)? I realize it's a no-no for DTS movie discs because of studio intellectual property issues, but that shouldn't apply to the DTS setup discs. Right?

It might help out those people who need them in-a-pinch.

--jhawk

Posted by Antonio Marcheselli (Member # 373) on 01-08-2003, 06:27 PM:

Daryl,

Are not "audio" and "automation" the same cable inside?

Aldo,

Are you using DTS sound as Dolby Digital "backup"???? [Eek!]

Bye

Posted by Daryl C. W. O'Shea (Member # 1303) on 01-08-2003, 06:55 PM:

Antonio, I thought you had meant only swapping one end of the cable so that you would have Audio to Automation and Automation to Audio.

If both cables are 25 conductor / 25 pin, then yes you'll have all audio but the sub. However if your automation cable only has the pins/conductors needed for your specific automation, chances are you'll be missing at least a few audio channels.

Posted by Antonio Marcheselli (Member # 373) on 01-09-2003, 04:51 AM:

Daryl

Oh yes, I meant to swap the whole cable!
On my installation the automation cable is a full-pin cable, I thought that DTS provides that cable in the package.

Bye

Posted by Karen Hultgren (Member # 395) on 01-09-2003, 04:14 PM:

John = If you want to post the audio files of DTS setup discs somewhere, that would be fine. You are right about the movie or trailer disc files, posting those is a no-no.

Aldo = Pull the pins out from the audio cable. Be sure to mark the cable that it is now adapted for the CP650 (or CP500 - will work on both).

Antonio = Sorry, didn't mean to forget you!

Karen at DTS
khultgren@dtsonline.com

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 01-09-2003, 08:41 PM:

John, since Karen has given the blessing, if I set you up an FTP will you handle making the .iso images? I would be happy to host them. I've needed a setup disc in the field before and it would've been convenient to be able to download it and burn it on the theater's computer.

Posted by Aldo Baez (Member # 790) on 01-10-2003, 01:54 AM:

That's a great idea on the iso images it would be handy.

I did fix the problem it was those pins I found a manual when I really looked in the storage room. You would think when they installed this they would have known about that. Now another problem it seems that the sub is set quite low probably about 50% when I compare it to another theatre with a properly setup sub same movie. I don't know if I have the expertise to fix that up though but I'll try.

Thanks everyone

Posted by John Hawkinson (Member # 1135) on 01-10-2003, 02:43 AM:

Sure, Brad, I'll dig them up sometime this weekend.
I'll coordinate off-line...

--jhawk

Posted by Antonio Marcheselli (Member # 373) on 01-10-2003, 07:08 AM:

Aldo,

Please note that set the DTS levels to 300mV is useful to have the unit playing at the same level of the Dolby unit. If Dolby's level are wrong you'll not have the DTS level better in this way!

I found that a DTS unit set to 300mV will sound exactly as the DOlby Unit (I'm speaking about levels!) but, say, if Dolby subwoofer's level is low, also DTS' level will be low when set to 300mV.

So, if your subwoofer in Dolby Digital sounds low, I would suggest you to check its level with an RTA on DOlby before set the DTS unit at 300mV.

Karen,
I was kiddin before, of course!!
THANKS for the opportunity to have .iso files on Internet.

Bye

Posted by Daryl C. W. O'Shea (Member # 1303) on 01-23-2003, 11:51 PM:

John, not that manuals for things like the Cine Gong aren't great or anything (in fact I don't know how I got along without it), but the DTS disc ISO images would make a way better 'Sneak Preview'.

After all, I fixed email notification for ya. Now I want some ISO's. [Big Grin]

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 01-24-2003, 01:22 AM:

Don't blame John on that one Daryl. I need to do a couple of things on my end first before John can do his stuff. It will be soon. [Smile]

Posted by Daryl C. W. O'Shea (Member # 1303) on 01-24-2003, 01:37 AM:

But I want to blame John! It's more fun. [Big Grin]

I think he's sleeping right now so I don't have to worry about getting my but kicked - I just have to edit my posts before he wakes up. [Smile]

Plus I just wanted to subtly drop 'hints' that email notification now works. I even corrected the email message text since John pointed out that it wasn't correct. Now if only there was a spell check feature we'd be all set. [Smile]

Posted by John Hawkinson (Member # 1135) on 01-25-2003, 02:03 AM:

*kick*
Actually, I have an even better item for a sneak preview, actually.
Maybe Brad can push it to the top of the queue if I get it in tonight; hrmm, nope. Need to spend some more time fighting with acrobat distiller. But it's that seminal 1965 SMPTE journal paper by Paul Preo and Eric Yavitz, Effect of Winding on the Projeciton Performance of 35mm Motion-Picture Film (only applies to acetate).

EDIT: (1)the email notification feature seems to not work right if I do it on an edit...(2) removed url; not ready for prime-time. Continue discussion on Yak?

--jhawk

[ 01-25-2003, 01:39 PM: Message edited by: John Hawkinson ]

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 01-25-2003, 02:35 AM:

John, your "low rez" scan looks a lot better here, even though it isn't as contrasty. I have moved it to the FT server. As always, please send these in for posting rather than linking.

Posted by John Hawkinson (Member # 1135) on 01-25-2003, 11:06 AM:

Umm, no, it's not ready yet, Brad. Please don't put it up. It doesn't meet my standards. The lowrez version has grey balance problems (among others). Be patient and wait. I was going to edit the URL out after Darryl editted his post, though.

--jhawk