This is topic Is This Old Equipment Trash or Treasure? in forum Film Handlers' Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.


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Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 01-09-2003, 04:59 PM:
 
Just got back from looking at these projectors, seen below. They reside in the auditorium of a local high school that is undergoing rennovations. These projectors were installed when the school was originally built in approximately 1920 and have been here ever since.

They have probably been idle for at least 50 years and, as you can see they have suffered a lot of neglect and abuse. There are no leses. The slits, exciters and cells are gone. The motors are missing and there are a lot of things bent, busted or just plain missing.

My task is to determine if anything here is salvageable and, if so, what to do with the stuff.
















I can't imagine that they'd be good for anything except parts. Even so, finding a buyer would take time. (We don't have a lot of time here... A week or two at most.)

I just hate to advise that these fine old machines be dumpsterized, even IF they have seen better days.

I'm thinking of recommending that they be taken out and set on display in a lobby somewhere as a conversation piece. This assumes that the school wants to keep them at all.

What do y'all think?

PS: I don't have space in my basement for them, otherwise I'd take them myself!

 

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Posted by Matthew Bailey (Member # 601) on 01-09-2003, 05:22 PM:
 
Hmm. The WE peds are it seems Vitaphone/optical sound bases.
I wonder will sone of the parts from a newer Enarc lamp work or fit?
Also I'm wondering about the interchange abilty of Super & E7 parts.
I could imagine the booth filling with carbon smoke since I don't see
any ducts on those lamps. I suppose Mr. Norwood would have a look at hem in person.
 

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Posted by John Hawkinson (Member # 1135) on 01-09-2003, 05:56 PM:
 
E-baying them is probably better than junking them; set a reserve to cover your cost of packaging...
Also, do you have a local dealer who buys used equipment to ask?

--jhawk
 

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Posted by Kara J. McVay (Member # 1285) on 01-09-2003, 07:58 PM:
 
They are beautiful..... I have a theatre full of old Simplex parts and such that I would never part with. Like a box full of old cracked reflectors, I just can't bring myself to throw them out. I guess I just get mushy about the old stuff.
 

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Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 01-09-2003, 09:20 PM:
 
Randy,
Don't throw them away! They are starting to get quite scarce these days. PLaces like that are the only places you are likely to find them anymore.

Kara,
If you are ever in Salt Lake City please come visit us at CLACO and I'll give you the tour of all our boxes of Simplex, Motiograph, and Peerless parts......oh, and yes, the n.o.s. Powers parts too. I'll even let you touch them if ya want to as long as you promise not to smudge up the 50 year old dust that is on them .
Mark @ CLACO
www.clacoequipment.com
 

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Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 01-09-2003, 10:15 PM:
 
Thanks, guys!

So, I assume the "proper" thing to do here would be to offer to remove the equipment from this booth at no charge then take them some place safe in order to "part them out"?

Anybody here interested in the parts? (Or even the whole units if you can arrange for transport.) If so, I'll get a complete inventory of what's there and post it in the "For Sale" forum.

I still haven't made up mind on Ebay. Although I have bought things from Ebay and had quite good luck, I still don't have great love for it/them. You just have to be on your guard so damn much about the peoples' charater (or lack thereof) whom you are dealing with. Yeah, cheap prices and rare/unusual stuff but all the hassle is a bit off-putting. I'd rather deal with people on this site... Just a better class of people. Knowwhatimean?
 

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Posted by Bill Mantz (Member # 754) on 01-09-2003, 10:16 PM:
 
Please don't trash it sell it to a dealer who sell used parts I am always looking for parts and many dealers just din't have them because people think it's old and it's worthless you should look on ebay and see what that trash can go for.
Bill
 

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Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 01-10-2003, 12:59 AM:
 
So what's up with those lamphouses? They're not like the Enarcs which I have worked with, but yet they are obviously Brenkert items.

I bet that the Western Electric bases are worth something to someone. Personally, I think that they are a pain to thread, but hopefully they will add "character" and "charm" to some theatre somewhere. (BTW, if anyone has successfully modified these to take stereo solar cells, let me know. A theatre owner I know might be interested in doing this.)

Abandoned/decrepit booths are always fun to explore, even if it is sad to see once-great equipment that has deteriorated beyond the point of repairability.
 

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Posted by Dick Prather (Member # 1136) on 01-10-2003, 03:25 AM:
 
Randy,
You have a typical booth for early sound for probably film and disk:
Front shutter Simplex (Standards)
Western Electric (E.R.P.I) 1-A soundheads and bases
Brenkert Type E low intensity arc lamps
No sound equipment showing.

Vintage 1926 thru 1935 or so. All items are incomplete but part of projection history. Most of the parts needed can be had. If the booth was installed in 1920 it would have been silent so the sound could have been added. They don't look in too bad of shape but don't expect bunches of money as they arn't that rare. Some one mentioned no stacks. Low intensity lamps do not put out much soot at all. I used a pair exactly like that running in the movie "Come See the Paradise". The WE soundhead may have had a turntable on it new for Vitaphone or sound on disk (Don Jaun, the Jazz Singer, ect.) The turntables were almost all removed after disk was no longer used and some of those soundheads may still run. Last one pair in Portland were retired in the early 1970's

I agree that you should remove the equipment and part with it as a whole set up or seperate as there are people looking for just WE equipment or just projectors. I can put you in contact with two or three people who might be interested in some if you wish. It would be a shame to see them tossed.
 

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Posted by Kenneth Wuepper (Member # 1174) on 01-10-2003, 07:02 AM:
 
Hello, Randy,

The FORD MUSEUM in Detroit, MI has a Brenkert collection. The Brenkert Company was originally in Detroit. They may need something from your assortment for their collection.

As a preservationist, I would recommend the museum route as a starting place. Also there is a museum in the midwest that has exhibition hardware as their mainstay.

KEN
 

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Posted by Stephen Furley (Member # 1277) on 01-10-2003, 11:09 AM:
 
What I find amasing is that you could still find a few places running this sort of stuff until quite recent times; some of it must have been over 60 years old when it was taken out of use. the old sound heads weren't too good, but the picture could be good as long as the screen wasn't too large. As late as the late '70s I saw machines still in use which had originally been hand cranked. The cinema still had all the maintenance records for them, they had been purchased secondhand, and, before they could be used, had to be modified to comply with the requirements of the Cinematograph act, this came into force on 1st January 1910, so goodness knows how old these machines must have been. At some later stage in their lives, this new fangled stuff like motors and soundheads had been fitted!
 

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Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 01-10-2003, 04:31 PM:
 
That's something that if TLC is used to fully restore, there would be lots of "OOOOO's and AHHHHHHHH's" - but it could get expensive.
 

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Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 01-10-2003, 10:29 PM:
 
Un modified front shutter simplexs are getting very scarce and if the turntable and tone arm is lieing around hmm
 

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Posted by Bob Koch (Member # 1062) on 01-10-2003, 11:32 PM:
 
Talk about a time capsule. Have`nt seen a Brenkert low intensity lamp like that for years; before the war at least. Peerless made an LI lamp also and there were many of them around. Used solid carbons, some used a mercury arc rectifier for power supply. Looks like the "iron horse"[ERPI 1a universal base] is missing a few parts; the KS 6607 optical, the exciter lamp bracket and the 49 film amplifier from what I could see on the photo. Probably had a 46 amplifier unless the auditorium was huge and someplace around should have been a 709 fader and probably a KS 5953 18 volt motor generator. That Simplex head is REALLY old. Notice the single bearing intermittent movement. You younger people have really missed something if you never saw one of these perform. Seemed like the picture kind of
"skated"diagonally thru the aperture plate. If you look at the outer covers on the projector you will probably see stamped PMC corp. Precision Machine Corp. If you could get the serial # off the main frame, Dick Prather could probably tell you how old it is. Thanx for the pictures
 

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Posted by Tim Reed (Member # 137) on 01-11-2003, 03:01 AM:
 
Oh, WOW! A front-shutter Simplex! Check that series-1 lens holder and single-bearing intermittent! I'd at least grab those heads for posterity. Too much missing from the rest of it to be worth much.

Why couldn't my high school have ran 35mm?
 

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Posted by Les Brock (Member # 1041) on 01-11-2003, 06:26 AM:
 
When I left Rank Film Labs London ( Now Deluxe ) in 1997 there was still a working pair of Simplex projectors with front shutters.

Apart from the odd oil leak they worked perfectly.

I doubt they are still in use now as the lab has put in Kinton projectors.

I would definitely recommend keeping the equipment even though there are parts missing.
 

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Posted by Bernie Anderson Jr (Member # 410) on 01-11-2003, 08:59 AM:
 
Firstly, DO NOT LET ANYONE THROW THEM OUT! Anything Western Electric is worth money. Universal bases are hard to come by, eventhough the preamp and optics have been gutted. You just don't see this stuff anymore in theatres. We have one complete restored simplex standard front shutter on WE with the vitaphone turntable. loews Jersey. And believe it or not alot of labs and screening rooms still use these projectors for dailies and color timing. For one thing you can tweek the intermittent to make it rock steady. The Super Simplex has this same capability. To people that don't know these projectors, think they're old and leaky, but until you work with them you won't understand how solid these early machines are.
 

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Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 01-11-2003, 10:13 AM:
 
The front shutter simplexs in labs usually has a modified intermitent for a 5:1 pulldown as well as high speed operation
 

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Posted by Stephen Furley (Member # 1277) on 01-11-2003, 10:40 AM:
 
Bernie wrote:

quote:

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We have one complete restored simplex standard front shutter on WE with the vitaphone turntable.

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quote:

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The front shutter simplexs in labs usually has a modified intermitent for a 5:1 pulldown

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