Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: How Do I use Kelmar Film Cleaner

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Posted by Don Bruechert (Member # 1538) on 01-17-2003, 01:12 PM:

Another newbie question on my quest to do things right.... We have the Kelmar dry media film cleaner in our facility that is referred to in various info docs on this site. I would like to begin using it - I would like to fix a lot of the wrong things I have been shown from the very little that anybody bothered to show me - this site has been VERY educational for me. I have found all the docs that show the parts diagrams, and I know which of our projectors have the mounting brackets and how to mount the unit. I am intelligent enough to follow the little line diagram telling me how to run the film through it as well. What I can't figure out is the media part, and how it is driven. I've spun the large film pulley by hand and nothing moves on the unit. I can't tell which roller the media should start on - I don't know if the media has been rewound or is at the end of its travel. We have a whole box of media for it, and the media is currently installed, so I know how it is supposed to go on there, but if I put on a new roll I don't know which side to put the fresh roll on when setting it up. Can anyone point me at an online document that will help with this? I've tried Kelmar's web site but that document appears to be conveniently offline. Thank you.

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 01-17-2003, 03:02 PM:

Click on the "Filmguard" link on the left. On that page is a picture of the machine loaded up and ready to run.

Remember that the media will advance VERY slowly, so you will have to spin the large drive wheel a few dozen times to see the media creep along. If you are not sure if it is working, put a small ink mark on each media, spin the large drive wheel by hand for about 30 seconds or so and see if the marks move. If they don't, then you are missing the rubber inserts in the takeup shafts or they are not being compressed to grab the takeup core. (You did tighten down the thumbscres finger tight, right?)

Posted by Aldo Baez (Member # 790) on 01-18-2003, 12:40 AM:

Does anyone know where you can get these rubber inserts besides a supplier I mean would they be available at say home depot?

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 01-18-2003, 08:04 AM:

The rubber inserts are not as common as they look to be! God knows we have looked. Home Depot definately does not have them (Think rubber hose).

We have found a very good sub but only for the black Film-Tech cores. Ours are a little oversized, just like the FT cores. The material we found turned out to be not plain old rubber and does cost a bit (not as much as Kelmar) but still more than logic would dictate based on the size of the thing. We sent Brad a sample pair to try out.

Steve

Posted by Steve Kraus (Member # 476) on 01-18-2003, 12:59 PM:

Yes, in the booth supplies aisle at Home Depot.

<sorry>

Posted by Daryl C. W. O'Shea (Member # 1303) on 01-18-2003, 05:02 PM:

I buy lots of booth supplies at Home Depot. Paper tape, white boards, floor mops, elastic bands, etc.

Posted by Steve Kraus (Member # 476) on 01-18-2003, 06:44 PM:

Paper tape as in the white artist's tape to hold down film ends? I've always had a hard time finding that stuff even at art supply stores. (Fortunately there are online vendors.) That would be great if H.D. had it but I'm guessing you mean something else.

Posted by Daryl C. W. O'Shea (Member # 1303) on 01-18-2003, 07:12 PM:

I have bought the tape you speak of, paper tape, at Home Depot before. AFAIK the Canadian and American stores stock nearly the same stuff. I last bought some in October, next time I'm there I'll see if they still have it. Another place I've bought paper tape before is 'Michaels'... an artist / craft type store.

Posted by Chris Markiewicz (Member # 1415) on 01-18-2003, 10:51 PM:

For the film cleaner rubber inserts, automotive fuel hose works well and is available from any good auto parts store (even NAPA!) Paper tape can also be found at some music stores or audio rental stores (used as "board tape" for sound mixers etc.) Office supply stores sometimes have it as well.

Posted by Daryl C. W. O'Shea (Member # 1303) on 01-18-2003, 11:39 PM:

The upside of using board tape is that you can get it in lots of pretty colors! [Smile]

Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 01-19-2003, 12:05 AM:

I've never had a problem getting the paper-type masking tape from a local art-supply store. They sell grease pencils there, too, and their prices are lower than most mail-order places (not to mention that there is no shipping charge).

Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 01-19-2003, 12:57 AM:

Don, you are from my home town! WAY TO GO!!!!! [thumbsup]

Welcome to Film-Tech. You already discovered Film-Tech to be the home of great people and craftsmen of their trade. [Smile]

Posted by John Hawkinson (Member # 1135) on 01-19-2003, 03:23 PM:

Huh. I wonder where Scott shops. I had problems finding anybody who sold Permacel paper tape in Boston; last time I order it was $3.25/roll from buytape.com (for 3/4" rolls).

--jhawk

Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 01-19-2003, 03:52 PM:

Johnson Art Supply on Newbury St. I think the cost is in the $3-4 range, although it's been a while since I stocked up. The tape is on the second floor. It's some no-name brand (not Permacel), but works just as well.

Posted by Steve Kraus (Member # 476) on 01-19-2003, 09:57 PM:

Actually, Michaels was one of the places I expected to find it but didn't.

Posted by Don Bruechert (Member # 1538) on 01-20-2003, 09:01 AM:

Hey Paul,

It's nice to know someone made it out!! Which clan are you from? I used to know a bunch of Thompsons because My Mom worked at the hospital with somebody.

I'm glad I found this place. It's really sad to know some of the scary stuff we do at our place that I had no idea was wrong until I found a bunch of people explaining how to do it the "right" way. Of course, as in any forum environment, you need to go with the "right" way that seems to be the most popular and weigh the options of everything else. I did 16mm projection from upper grade school all the way thru high school, but this is a totally different beast!

I have a lot to learn. There is basically no one left at our place that really knows what is going on. I have been spending a lot of time cleaning projectors and trying to fix "broken" things, and also trying to relearn some different habits. To me it seems like the old adage about people who drive cars that are lucky to know how to put gas in them, but just expect them to keep running forever with no attention at all! (I tried to edit that for political correctness).

BTW, back to the original subject, I set the film cleaner all up last night and was really excited about trying it out, but there is a part missing - one of the little spacers that compresses the rubber core to hold the take up spool tight. I sent an email to Kelmar for them to recommend a place to get one (secretly hoping they will decide it is a small part, feel sorry for me and just offer to send it!).

Have a great day,
Don

Posted by Bob Maar (Member # 763) on 01-20-2003, 09:35 AM:

When you go down to Newbury Street after you buy the tape walk up to the corner of Newbury and Glouster Street, On the Northwest Corner is Charley's Restaurant. Go downstairs they have a bar that makes great Martini's. Have a Gibson, straight up.

Posted by Don Bruechert (Member # 1538) on 01-27-2003, 11:09 AM:

OK, so I talked to this really nice guy at Kelmar who dropped the part I needed in the mail for me. I got it and set everything up and used it to clean our LOTR print that has been around for ages. Now I have 2 more questions. First one is I am wondering if it is normal to have more "skank" on one side of the film than the other? It seems that the "inside" (non-sound) edge of the film was much dirtier than the sound edge - there was hardly any dirt at all on the sound edge. I do try very hard to keep the projectors as clean as my uneducated status allows me to do (toothbrush on all film contact areas, sprockets, etc between every showing and Xecote cleaner/ lubricant on the traps and gates at least once a day), but I don't work every day and sometimes I wonder if I'm the only one doing it. So is this dirt on one side thing "normal" or is there some kind of tension adjustment to make sure the film and cleaning media are in contact I am not aware of.

Second thing is that you guys are all talking about how great film-guard is so I want to try it. We have a whole box of white cleaning media for our film cleaner. Will I be able to use this with film-guard or will I have to buy the special blue media? If I film-guard a print will this affect the next guy down the road who tries to make a splice on that film? i.e. will it keep the splicing tape from adhering with some kind of oily film?

Thanks. I now return you to your regular reading.....

Posted by Joe Beres (Member # 678) on 01-27-2003, 11:19 AM:

Hi Don,
Is your non-soundtrack or "inside" edge face up on the platter (assuming you are using one)? If so, I would guess that dust is settling on the edge of the print and gradually working its way into the image area.

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 01-27-2003, 11:20 AM:

It is not unusual for one side of a print to leave slightly more debris on the cleaning media --- during projection, dirt can be generated by scuffing of the film edge or perforations by sprockets, rollers, gate, or platter surface. So one side may have slightly more scuffing than the other. But if the difference is severe, you need to check to see what is scuffing or damaging the film on that side. Seeing debris on the media or PTR simply is showing that you are effectively removing dirt and cleaning the print.

Sometimes, you can identify the debris captured on the media or PTR under a microscope. Magenta debris is often scuffed emulsion. White flakes are often polyester support scuffing. Metallic debris is often a sign of bearing failure. Gritty debris could be cement dust or similar hard material that is likely to scratch the film.

Posted by Don Bruechert (Member # 1538) on 01-27-2003, 01:07 PM:

Our prints are normally on the platter with the soundtrack up.

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 01-27-2003, 01:37 PM:

Don, what do you clean your platter decks with? Odds are they are dirty or whatever is being used to clean them is leaving a residue that is "dirtying" the inboard edge of your film.

Don't use XeKote with FilmGuard. You "can", but it is a complete waste of XeKote and effort. FilmGuard will do a much better and longer lasting job (no you do not have to put FG on the gate and trap for the benefit).

We do not make the blue media anymore. You can use the white or green of any manufacturer.

Bear in mind one pass of the cleaner won't do much good other than to stop print shedding. You will want to keep reusing that roll of media for multiple runs to really see the cleaning action. Full instructions are enclosed with the kit.

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 01-27-2003, 02:05 PM:

Brad is correct --- oxidation of the surface of the platter may get on the film edge, and will show up as a dark streak on that side.

Posted by Don Bruechert (Member # 1538) on 01-28-2003, 09:08 AM:

The platter might be the culprit, as there is a dark streak like you described. We have all Strong Alpha platters. The decks are either aluminum or stainless. I'm not sure, but guessing aluminum. The guy that left not long after I started (who was the only one who had much of a clue) never got into cleaning them. I think I read somewhere on here about using Alcohol to clean them but I don't know if that's right.

Posted by Daryl C. W. O'Shea (Member # 1303) on 01-28-2003, 04:49 PM:

AP decks are aluminum.

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 01-28-2003, 10:20 PM:

Bare aluminum will oxidize.

Posted by Daryl C. W. O'Shea (Member # 1303) on 01-29-2003, 01:45 AM:

That's not the only problem with them. [Smile]

Posted by Don Bruechert (Member # 1538) on 01-29-2003, 10:09 AM:

So how should I clean them? Or is that a subject for a different post? My first instinct is that using Mother's Mag and Aluminum Polish followed by an Alcohol Rinse is not a very good idea [Big Grin]

Assuming of course the potential chemical interaction with the film or the potential for polish residue to get in and muck up the works.... So how do you folks clean these platters and how often should it be done?