Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: 70mm. on 33' screen!!!!

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Posted by James Robertson (Member # 888) on 01-20-2003, 12:36 AM:

An interesting item from International Projectionist June 1962.!!
Can you imagine the picture quality with 70mm. on a 33' screen.
It must have been stupendous.!!!

Here is the 33-ft. panoramic screen designed for Norelco 70/35 min film projection in the 664 seat theatre aboard new luxury liner SS France. Behind the screen are five Norelco loudspeakers for motion pictures, and in addition acoustic panels either side open as needed to release stereophonic sound through concealed column speakers.

Travelers on the new luxury ship, SS France, are being treated to wide-screen movie-viewing for the first time on any ocean liner.
Thanks to two 70/35 mm motion picture projectors by Norelco (North American Philips), ocean travelers may, as a change from ping-pong, shuffleboard or deck-chair socializ-ing, enjoy "going to the movies" in the best big-theatre tradition. The liner's theatre is the largest theatre afloat and the best equipped on land or sea.
Continuous (14 hours daily) motion pictures, including the best and latest U. S. and European films and spectaculars are shown by Norelco's 16, 35/70 mm projectors with an especially designed Norelco high-fidelity stereophonic sound system on the theatre's 33 ft. curved panoramic screen for wide-gauge film.
Another luxury feature of the ship's motion picture system and an-other first in "movies at sea" is the simultaneous projection of films for private viewing on first class cabin television screens and in public rooms throughout the ship.
Norelco's 70/35 min projectors are now installed in more than 130 mo-tion pictures theatres in the U.S-ten in Hollywood alone.
At the heart of the television and acoustical installations is a nerve center or control room from which radio officers transmit throughout the ship selected musical programs (recorded or from radio broadcasts), orders and announcements, and television programs.
Four hundred and fifty connections for television receivers give passengers in deluxe suites, first class cabins, and in the ship's public rooms a wide range of TV viewing. Within television range of either coast, passengers can enjoy French, European, or American programs. Also, within range of America, color television can be received on six special sets in the salons. In addition, live programs from the ship's studio (better equiped than most of those in Europe), and taped programs are available.
Philips' acoustical system, the most extensive ever installed on a liner, is comprised of three networks. The "crew" network. the network for "orders and announcements" and, of most interest to the passenger, the 14 concert" network which relays radio programs and recorded music as well as happenings aboard the ship. This installation enables the simultaneous distribution of seven different pro-s~rams via eighteen different lines to crew rooms and passenger areas. Staterooms are provided with selector switches for a choice of programs. In all, nearly 1,500 loudspeakers are fed by this system.
In the theatre, seating a record 664 people, the two Philips projec-tors make available for the first time the projection at sea of wide-gauge panoramic films. Splayed walls in the theatre provide the ultimate in acoustic perfection for the stereophonic sound system which is supplied with five loudspeakers behind the panoramic ~ screen and fourteen others strategically placed throughout the auditorium.

Posted by Stephen Furley (Member # 1277) on 01-20-2003, 02:12 AM:

There are plenty of 70mm cinemas with screens less than 33 feet. The former MOMI cinema, now NFT3, in London, for example, maybe 20-25 feet. This place was re-equipped at about the time the museum closed - DP-70s out, Cinemeccanica Vic. 8s in, and I'm not sure if it can still run 70mm.

I'm not sure of the screen size in the main NFT1 auditorium, but it must be about 33 fet. I have seen several examples of 1930s cinemas which were tripled in the '60s or '70s, where one of the small auditoria had 70mm, fully equipped, not just a projector, at least some of these did actually run 70mm at least once, typically on a screen of about 20 feet. Almost all of these places have now closed.

The recently opened Enigma cinema at the Bletchley Park museum has 70mm, I'm not sure of the screen size, but I doubt if it's more than 12 - 15 feet. They cannot run more than an hour, as they only have one 70mm machine; they do have a tower, but this is 35mm only. A typical programme at this place only runs for a few minutes, so this doesn't really matter.

The private home cinema where I recently installed 4 track mag was offered a pair of 70mm machines for use with their 4 metre screen, but had to turn them down, as they did not have enough height in the box to fit them in.

There must be some preview theatres which are 70mm equipped, and what about equipment demonstration at trade shows etc.

There are plenty of places which can show 70mm on small screens, how often they do it is another matter, and it does look very good.

[ 01-20-2003, 03:31 AM: Message edited by: Stephen Furley ]

Posted by Michael Brown (Member # 890) on 01-20-2003, 02:44 AM:

I'd guess the flat screen at the NMPFT is around maybe 35-40ft? Dick?

Posted by Serge Bosschaerts (Member # 298) on 01-20-2003, 05:20 AM:

I have a short film on 35mm about the building of the ship.
The SS France is shown from the first steel plate up to the first departure to New York.
Also can see the two DP70's in the booth and also a quick look at the theatre with balcony for the first class passengers.
Sadly no pictures of the screen ...

Posted by Bill Gabel (Member # 1105) on 01-20-2003, 10:09 AM:

Those DP70's are now located in Hollywood at Todd-AO Studios in room
number 1. (sn#1741 & 1744)

Posted by John Walsh (Member # 168) on 01-20-2003, 06:06 PM:

Where I used to work, we showed 70mm on a 32' screen. When we ran 'Brainstorm' the opening credits (which curved out towards you, as if printed on a balloon being blown up) really had a slight 3D look.

Posted by Darren Briggs (Member # 1071) on 01-20-2003, 06:24 PM:

The two cinemas in Yorkshire in England which show 70mm have screens of allmost identical size, The Pictureville in Bradford is 33'5" wide and City Screen York is 33' wide. Im not sure if they still have full 5/70 in the Imax cinema, the Vic8 is still used for 35mm. Dick at Bradford could fill us in on that one. They stopped showing 5/70 in there when the Pictureville opened.

Note the Cinerama Screen in the Pcturville is 42'8"

I think Yorkshire is the only place in the U.K where you can see 70mm every month.

Darren

(My Shamless plugs, 'The Right Stuff' 70mm Jan 26th City Screen York,
'My Fair Lady'70mm March 2nd, City Screen York)

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 01-20-2003, 08:53 PM:

At home I run 70mm on a 12 foot wide screen. This screen is a bit wider than the 9 foot wide screen that I had back in Chicago...talk about sharp...its way too sharp.....I have to watch with my reading glasses on to make it slightly blurred so it looks like the image on that 33 foot screen.
Mark

Posted by Stephen Furley (Member # 1277) on 01-21-2003, 05:09 AM:

Darren wrote:

quote:

I think Yorkshire is the only place in the U.K where you can see 70mm every month.

Certainly not in London any more. I don't think that either the Odeon or the Empire in Leicester Square has shown anything in years. The NFT pulls out its print of LOA about once a year, and maybe one other film per year, but that is about all.

I'll try to get to one of your shows one day; I can't find time to get up there at the moment.

The only auditorium I have been in at York is No.2, I've been to a couple of the British Transport Films shows done by Paddington Films and Hertfordshire Railtours. Does the one where you have the 70mm installation seat many more than this?

Posted by Ben Wales (Member # 92) on 01-21-2003, 06:27 PM:

Well my home (Living Room)Westrex 5000 35/70mm home cinema has a 6ft wide 70mm picture, but I have seen one with a DP70 in a Garden Shed with a 3ft wide 70mm screen!

Posted by Stephen Furley (Member # 1277) on 01-21-2003, 06:45 PM:

Ben, was it you who ran some 70mm on a Westrex machine at a BFCC at Ealing Town Hall a few years ago?

Posted by Peter Hall (Member # 695) on 01-22-2003, 01:25 PM:

Ben - you need to find a woman ! Or a good book ! Or at least a hobby !

Some other 70mm houses in London -
Planet Hollywood, about 22'
Richmond Filmhouse - 2 DP70s but I think they have replaced the CP200 with a Ultra Stereo (why ?) and no longer run 70mm
Curzon Mayfair - being refitted - 48'

And of course Ben Wales' garage !

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 01-22-2003, 03:15 PM:

Peter 70mm is a good hobby and no living room is complete without at least one projector sitting in it

Posted by Steve Kraus (Member # 476) on 01-22-2003, 05:38 PM:

I've run unmarried (picture + track) in my bedroom.

Posted by Ben Wales (Member # 92) on 01-22-2003, 06:47 PM:

Stephen:

Yes it was me at Ealing, plan to do something in Cinemascope this may at this venue and who knows a bit of 70mm!
I am also planing to install a DP70 at home, so one day a two projector 70mm at home.

Peter:

At least my 70mm projector will not ask where I have been etc or nags or the time if I left the dishes pilled up in the kitchen!.

Could be worst, could be train spotting on the railway line next to my place at home [Eek!]

Posted by Thomas Hauerslev (Member # 566) on 01-23-2003, 05:06 AM:

I've got a two (2) foot 70mm screen. It's curved and is a model of the Todd-AO screen once installed at 3 Falke Bio in Copenhagen. In fact my screen is just as wide (read small) as my 25 inch TV. The rear of this screen is equipped in such a way that I can use my Gitzo tripod to hold it. For fun, I've painted the back of the scren blue (= "Blue screen"). It's very handy to use this to project/demonstrate distortion corrected Todd-AO prints to guests. It's easier to tilt the screen compared to a DP70.

My "large" screen is a box and equipped with a handle. It's flat on one side and curved on the other. It's little more than 4 feet wide.

My Cinerama screen model is also only 3-4 feet wide. It's VERY curved and is in fact an old piece of furniture, which I painted white and included a very narrow black strip of masking.

For the curved screens, they are very impressive to show slides on.

Take that! - A 4-plex in my office!

Posted by Darren Briggs (Member # 1071) on 01-25-2003, 03:00 PM:

Stephen,
Yes Screen two is only 142 seats, and screen one is 226 and has a screen which is alot wider,
Screen 2 has side and top masking, which enables us to show 1.33:1 films on a screen 4.5 meters high, but the cinema just isn't wide enought just to open out fully for scope, so we mask down and out at the same time. Compared to 1.85:1 images the screen area for scope is the the same size but just a different shape. Unlike many mulitplexes which just mask down from 1.85 to scope, the opening out to the width of the cinema and masking down slightly to achive the ratio is better as the screen doesnt get smaller, it just changes shape.
Thanks go to Peter who is contributing to this thread for this design.
Many other operators and engineers may of just done it the muliplex way to save money in a side masking system!

Screen 1 is 4.5 meters high but has the width just to open out to any ratio.
See thomas's www.in70mm.com website for an artical on my 70mm instalation at City Screen York.

Darren

P.S. Screening 'The Right Stuff' Tomorrow in 70mm (26th Jan)
'My Fair Lady' on the 2nd March is the next 70mm show.

Posted by Stephen Furley (Member # 1277) on 01-25-2003, 03:26 PM:

Ben wrote:

quote:

Yes it was me at Ealing

I was at Ealing, I'm afraid I didn't recognise your name, or face, but those Westrex dual gauge machines aren't that common, that's what made me think it might be you.

I seem to remember that you had some trouble at the last moment, pre-amp problems, I think it was. That was bad luck, well done for taking the equipment there, and I hope all goes well next time.

I recently bought a Dolby MPU-1, it only gets used on a few days each year, two shows so far, you are welcome to borrow it if you want a back up unit next time.

Southampton is not a good place for railways, they closed the station (terminus) which was near to places where people might actually want to go, like ferry terminals, and, now, the Harbour Lights, and now you have to go to Southampton Central, which seems to be near the centre of absolutely nothing.

Something else odd about Southampton is that strange building at the Ocean Village, the newish one, full of closed down shops. Did they all close as soon as they opened? The last time I was there one shop was still open, but only via a door from the outside, and I think there was some sort of pub, but that was it, everything else was empty. Even the Harbour Lights closed for a time, soon after it opened. I think it's one of the 'Picture House' chain now, isn't it? Does the whole area have some sort of curse on it?

Posted by Peter Hall (Member # 695) on 01-26-2003, 06:18 AM:

We use a "corkscrew" technique to get the biggest / most acceptable screen size - maybe is IS the right tool for the job !

Posted by Steve Kraus (Member # 476) on 01-26-2003, 10:36 AM:

Thomas, if you have the room it would be interesting to put a very long focal length lens in your projector and then set up your miniature demo Cinerama screen a good distance away. Under such circumstances the difference in throw between the middle and sides of the screen will be a very small proportion to the overall throw and you'd be able to project a picture with minimal geometric distortion and focus shift.

Posted by Stephen Furley (Member # 1277) on 01-27-2003, 07:28 AM:

Darren, I don't know if I can make the 2nd March; any more planned after that? What time are they? I would need to be able to get up from London, and back, on the same day.

How many do you have to get in the house for a 70mm show to pay its way?

How much did it cost to upgrade the theatre to 70mm?

If this is scccessful, dou you plan to make any further upgrades, e.g. the extra screen channels, or DTS on 70?

How many titles are still available on 70mm in this country? I remember that when I was involved inorganising a 70mm season some years ago, there wasn't much, and some of the prints weren't in very good condition.

Do you only use the '8' when running 70mm, with all the 35 running on the '5', or do you use the '8' for both? How do you find the two compare, I've very little experience on Cinemeccanica machines.

I understand that there are still a few original 35mm dye-transfer Cinemascope prints around. Have you considered trying to get some of those, now that you have the mag installation?

If I can make it to one of the shows, is there any chance of a visit to the box afterwards?