Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Chinagraphing Splices

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Posted by Neil McGovern (Member # 1247) on 01-28-2003, 07:15 AM:

We seem to have a split opinion in our booth:
Is it good to chinagraph a splice between reels on a tape splice or not?

The arguments go as follows:
Yes - It makes it easier for make down
No - You don't need to as you can hear the splice anyway.
Yes - On an older film, there may be a great deal of splices, and it's hard to tell which is which
No - That just means it takes longer to make down, and it also reduces presentation
Yes - Not if it is done properly.
No - Bah!
Yes - Bah!

Any advice as to if splices should be marked or not?

Posted by Duncan Smith (Member # 1556) on 01-28-2003, 07:24 AM:

It can be done in a way so as to not pollute the image or soundtrack but many don't take the care unfortunately. In my experience the most sanitary way of highlighting a splice for breaking down a film is to use "splicemark" tape. It doesn't disrupt the soundtrack, analogue or Dig if used properly and is obviously removed after use. A bit costly though but not mega-bucks.

All the best.

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 01-28-2003, 07:41 AM:

Unfortunately, Chinagraph markers usually leave some waxy debris that can be seen on the screen, or interfere with the soundtrack. At least the marks can be completely removed with a solvent-based film cleaner. There have been many threads discussing the marking of reel change splices. Best practice is to NOT mark the film with anything that may make the splice more visible to the audience or risk disrupting the sound.

Posted by Michael Brown (Member # 890) on 01-28-2003, 10:30 AM:

If you want to mark splices, make sure you just mark a vertical line down the frameline. But stop before you get to the soundtrack. A simple vertical line is as easy to spot as
a massive 'X' that covers all of the frame.

Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 01-28-2003, 11:58 AM:

An alternative to chinagraph would be to use joining tape which has a mark printed on it, e.g. Splicemark (as mentioned above) or T-stripe tape from Jack Roe. With the tape applied as it should be, a thick yellow line is visible at the film edge and across the splice, both of which come off with the tape when it is removed.

Posted by Neil McGovern (Member # 1247) on 01-28-2003, 01:07 PM:

It's the thin vertical line method which we use.

And it's on the actual splicing tape, so there's no damage to the film after it's been taken off.

Our main problem with edge marking tape is cost, as we run single showings, (6 per week), so we get through a lot of the stuff.

Wouldn't the edge-marked tape interfere with SRD/SDDS tracks at all (we plate on sound-track up, so the yellow edge would cover the primary SDDS track at least)?

Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 01-28-2003, 04:11 PM:

quote:
And it's on the actual splicing tape, so there's no damage to the film after it's been taken off.

As John notes, the chinagraph will press against the adjoining layer in the roll and some will come off. The makers of pre-printed tape claim that it is a lot more resistant to this. Jack Roe also claim that the yellow markings on their tape are so positioned as to avoid interfering with any of the optical digital formats, but having never used the stuff myself I couldn't comment on how effective or otherwise it is.

Posted by Daryl C. W. O'Shea (Member # 1303) on 01-28-2003, 04:33 PM:

You don't need the 'yellow stripe' on the soundtrack side since you can see the entire frame as it comes off the platter.

Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 01-28-2003, 07:08 PM:

If you're just running one show of each print, can't you just have someone sit in the booth and stick a small piece of paper in the takeup reel/platter to mark the spot each time a splice runs through?

I used to do this all the time in a 6000' changeover booth and it sped up breakdowns considerably.

Second choice would be zebra tape, although I personally think it's tacky and the quality of the tape isn't as good as Neumade clear.

I'm not a big fan of using china markers to indicate reel changes, but at least their use doesn't result in permanent (nonremovable) markings on the film.

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 01-28-2003, 10:40 PM:

I use the eprad edge marker kit wit a white paint marker and never have it drip down into the sdds track

Posted by John Spooner (Member # 1565) on 01-29-2003, 09:57 AM:

What I do Personally is to draw a line along the frameline with chinagraph on the tape itself, stopping short of the soundtrack. Just a single line suffices.
Then the breaking down operator can easily see the frameline, as well as being able to locate the correct splice if there is more than one in near proximity.
John Spooner, South Australia.

Posted by Robert E. Allen (Member # 1351) on 01-29-2003, 06:23 PM:

Several years ago when I filled in for the local projectionist he showed me how he built up his prints and I noticed he would use Kiwi liquid white shoe polish with a sponge applicator to mark the edge of the film at the splices.

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 01-29-2003, 08:58 PM:

White shoe polish is notorious for oozing into the track and picture area, and causing flaky debris in the image -- Film Done WRONG!. [Frown]

Posted by Matthew Bailey (Member # 601) on 01-29-2003, 09:01 PM:

Um according to one of the Kodak tech manuals I have on theatre projection etiquitte, using shoe polish for splice marking is a no-no. I think after applying the splicing tape,mark the tape splices on their surfaces with adhesive fluorescent yellow or orange dots probably across the two joined frames. When breaking down, they'll come off with the tape splices.

Posted by Mike Rendall (Member # 1499) on 01-30-2003, 03:47 AM:

We use a white waterbased pen called posca. You can buy it in many art shops in the uk. If you run it down the edge of the film using the side of the nib rather than the end it looks invisible until you put it on the platter where it stands out a mile. Obviously at breakdown it can be wiped off with a slightly damp cloth.

Not sure how it would work on wet cleaner pads though, maybe being water based it would be ok.

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 01-30-2003, 07:24 AM:

Again, whatever you use for marking the splice, it should not make the splice more visible to the audience or cause a disruption to the sound, and it should not leave any dirt on the film. And it should be completely removed when returning the print. BEST practice is to learn how to recognize reel end splices WITHOUT having to mark the film or splice (e.g., notice difference in gloss on sidewall, temporarily marking diameter of roll on the shipping reel).

Posted by Duncan Smith (Member # 1556) on 01-31-2003, 01:28 PM:

In answer to your question, splicemark does not interfere with picture or sound if used right. It does cover the SDDS area but as it's translucent red, the red LED light can pass through it with negligable loss in my experience. More damage to the digital soudtrack is done by poor splicing in my experience.

Best of luck.

Posted by Ian Price (Member # 14) on 01-31-2003, 03:07 PM:

I have a poorly lit booth.

I don't need no stinkin' marking device! [Cool]

None of my staff needs to mark the splice either. Just learn to do it right.