Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: 1/3 octave real time analyzer

This is topic 1/3 octave real time analyzer in forum Film Handlers' Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.

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Posted by Mike Fitzgerald (Member # 1304) on 01-31-2003, 06:35 AM:

Has anyone had any experience with a Behringer ULTRA-CURVE PRO DSP8024 analyzer. I see that they go for around 250 with a calibrated microphone.
Thanks

Posted by Rob van Ede (Member # 1457) on 01-31-2003, 09:51 AM:

Hi Mike,

i have one and am very happy with it. I use it as eq / delay in my home system (http://home.hccnet.nl/r.v.ede). The measurement microphone is nothing special and response falls rapidly over 16K (according to the specs flat to 20K ???).
I know of no other machine this affordable that can do the same. If you want to use it for analyzing only, you should also consider using your computer and a measurement program like SmaartLive (http://www.siasoft.com/products/smaart_live.shtml). With this program you can also measure time response, so you can align your speakers much better taking path length and phase differences into account.

Rob

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 01-31-2003, 02:21 PM:

Mike,
Don't expect miracles from it. You need a really good analyzer and mic(mics)to do the job properly. At least one of the Gold Line models...or better yet the small Ivie is excelent, and the filters are extremely accurate. Unless the analyzer has some sort of offset programmed into it for the particuluar mic....such as in the R-2, then you need to spend most of the dough on a really good mic to ensure that you get one thats truely flat. It should also have a free field type capsule on it.
The moral is.... buy a cheap analyzer....get cheap results.
Mark @ CLACO
www.clacoequipment.com

Posted by Christopher Seo (Member # 7) on 01-31-2003, 05:17 PM:

Mark,

I thought random pressure response microphones were used for cinema EQ measurements, not free-field. At least, that's what I was advised. Could you explain? Thanks.

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 01-31-2003, 05:26 PM:

Thanks Chris...You're right...thats what we use here in the states as per ANSI standards. However in Europe the IEC specs call for using a free field mic. A random response mic is either pointed straight up , or at a 70 to 80 degree angle, and a free response mic is pointed directly at the source. I'd be curious to hear back from some of our European members as to what they really use over there......
Mark

Posted by Mark Hathaway (Member # 1044) on 02-01-2003, 02:43 AM:

Howdy guys,

while the Ultra curve 8024's mic isn't great, the actual 8024 is top notch. Its also best to use it ONLY in the digital domain, it was designed for the pro audio world, if fed a normal <2v analog consumer level, quantilization errors can be heard at LOW levels. They sound like <60hz pink noise.

The best option is to use the 8024 via the digital interface.

I believe the current street price for them is around 175 USD.

The new ULTRA-DRIVE PRO DCX2496 is probably worth a look too. Its a digital speaker management system, great for projects on a budget.

Mark Hathaway

Posted by Antonio Marcheselli (Member # 373) on 02-01-2003, 06:34 AM:

Hi Mike

I have three 8024 for my Home Theater setup. Recently, as first attempt, I tried to eq a small cinema of my friend. I have both behringer and RTA on PC. Unfortunately, IMHO, Behringer's RTA is not usable since it has only 1 second of average. This means that the graph will be too fast to have a precise calibration. So, I used the behringer as Pink Noise generator and PC as RTA! (SpectraLab)
I still didn't had the chance to use them as equalizers, so I can't say nothing. I wrote to behringer asking them to add in a future software release an higher average.

About ECM8000 (mic), a friend of mine assured me that the mic IS flat (he tested it with a professional one). Unfortunately, like all cheap thing, there is mic and mic. A professional mic should come with a calibration sheet, I believe that an absolutely flat mic does not exist. If there is no calibration, you cannot expect perfection!

However the result in the small theater was not bad! Surely better than before!!! [Smile]

Bye
Antonio

P.S. Do you know that Behringer DSP8024 and Ultratube 9024 are the same thing with just a different eeprom? Do not believe me? Open the 8024 and watch the board: "Behringer DSP8024/DSP9024"

Posted by Christopher Seo (Member # 7) on 02-01-2003, 06:55 AM:

Thanks Mark, I didn't know there were differing standards in Europe. Do they still adhere to the X-curve over there? But using a free-field mic must give at least somewhat different results....

Posted by Antonio Marcheselli (Member # 373) on 02-01-2003, 07:33 AM:

Mark and Christopher

What is a free field mic? And a random pressure? What about the correct pointing of the mic?
Can you explain me better?

Antonio

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 02-02-2003, 01:00 PM:

Antonio, Follow this link for an easy to understand explanation of these two mics. Its on the Ivie website. Go to page 20 of the manual.....

[URL=http://http://www.ivie.com/pdf/ie-30a.pdf
I used to own a Behringher Ultracurve, used it only for 1/3 EQ section, for which is it very good for. I once compared its spectrum analyzer capabilities to the Ivie PC-40 that I have, and its pretty far out in left field.....so I would stay away from that part of it. Behringer also went out of buisness in the States for quite some time. I would only assume that they are back by now.
Mark @ CLACO
www.clacoequipment.com

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 02-02-2003, 01:09 PM:

There is an Ivie PC-30 and mic on e-bay right now. Thsi is a steal even if it does not work!! Its still a current Ivie product. Not sure if the mic is free field or random though. E-mailing the seller would tell you that though. Me thinks this analyzer goes for around 4500.00 U.S. right now....perhaps a bit more than that. The calibrated mics are around 1200.00 U.S.
The PC-30 works nicly with the Ultra Stereo 4 mic setup.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3309762266&category=1504

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2504019172&category=23784
Mark 2 CLACO
www.clacoequipemt.com

Posted by Bas Haldermans (Member # 1521) on 02-02-2003, 04:23 PM:

Hi i'm using a abacus analyser. How do you like this analyzer.

Bas

Posted by Michael Schaffer (Member # 1204) on 02-02-2003, 05:30 PM:

Not very much. I like the Ivy and R2 better. But it is practical and can be used for quick checking.

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 02-02-2003, 06:49 PM:

I have an abacus and was always happy with it it did a good job and the fact it had two line inputs was nice for doing a chains as you could compare the two cell halves
I also have and use almost daily the R2 (my back with testify to that lugging it around) and also have several of the goldline DSP30's and they are an excellent value considering that ther dsp filters are far tighter than Ivies and it will when connected with the laptop option due 1/6 octave analysis (which is nice for subs)