Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: cable+pc

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Posted by Bas Haldermans (Member # 1521) on 02-06-2003, 05:59 PM:

Hi i need a cable to connect my notebook to a processor like cp650, cp500 or Da20. I need it to run the dras program or to do the setting of the cp650.
You need a male and a female connector. But how do i wire them. do i need to make it a 'one to one' connection.

Greetings Bas

Posted by Michael Schaffer (Member # 1204) on 02-06-2003, 07:27 PM:

Yes. Or just take a standard PC serial cable. Get WinDRAS, it is much more comfortable.

Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 02-07-2003, 12:49 AM:

Assuming that your laptop has a male DB9 connector, you need a DB9M to DB9F serial cable with at least pins 2, 3, and 5 wired. If I remember correctly, Dolby uses a "straight-through" cable and SDDS uses a "null modem" (flip pins 2 and 3) cable.

You can make these cables yourself or buy premade ones from any computer store.

Posted by Daryl C. W. O'Shea (Member # 1303) on 02-07-2003, 12:55 AM:

DTS also uses a null-modem cable.

Posted by Michael Schaffer (Member # 1204) on 02-07-2003, 03:46 AM:

The white man from Boston speaks the truth. Also, for the DFP-D3000 you need a gender changer. The connector on the DFP is also male.

Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 02-07-2003, 07:39 AM:

Why do manufacturers put male connectors on expensive equipment?

Think about it: cables are cheap, computers and processors are expensive. Male connectors are more easily damaged than their female counterparts. Therefore, it would make sense to put the more durable connector (female) on the more expensive and more difficult to repair piece of equipment. But, no, most PC hardware has male connectors for the serial ports. Fortunately, most non-PC workstation and server hardware uses either female DB25s or RJ45 connectors for serial consoles.

Posted by Daryl C. W. O'Shea (Member # 1303) on 02-07-2003, 07:54 AM:

I bet the same idiot that came up with the idea for high density DB-15 connectors had something to do with it.

DTS units also have a male DB-9 connector.

Posted by Ray Derrick (Member # 1001) on 02-09-2003, 05:20 AM:

It all comes down to conventions for serial communications which traditionally involve DTE's and DCE's. A DTE (Data Terminal Equipment) is regarded as the "master" or the "boss" and gets a male connector (eg a PC). A DCE (Data Circuit Terminating Equipment) is regarded as the "slave" or the "subordinate" and gets a female connector (eg a modem). You know, a bit like the human condition [Razz]

DTS and SDDS both chose to be "the boss" (probably for egotistical reasons, sorry Karen) which is wrong because by convention, the attached PC, laptop or automation is really the boss!!

(Note: When I wrote this post I put the terms DTE and DCE in reverse order so rather than cause confusion I have edited this post to correct it. Thanks to Dave Macaulay for picking up on this in his post further down.)

[ 02-11-2003, 05:15 PM: Message edited by: Ray Derrick ]

Posted by Michael Schaffer (Member # 1204) on 02-09-2003, 05:42 AM:

Is there PC based setup for Panastereo equipment too?

Posted by Ray Derrick (Member # 1001) on 02-09-2003, 06:28 AM:

Well Michael, the Panastereo CSP3200 was the first cinema sound processor in the entire world to offer serial control. It was first introduced in 1993, so I think it is fair to say we have more experience than anybody with this branch of cinema technology. This may also explain why the CSP1200 has the most resilient, unfoolable, unbreakable serial interface of any processor ever built (a little self indulgent praise here). (Take note Dolby, DTS and other would be contenders. My time is not cheap but I am very, very good at this stuff [Big Grin]

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 02-09-2003, 10:11 AM:

Ray,

I think the question was could you hook a laptop up to tune and adjust the Pana equipment...not merely use a serial port to "automate" it.

I think ethenet ports may be the next step. Even with the RS-232 port the fact that it is really just a single port has show its limitations (can only connect one thing to it). Now there are kludges to get the port to talk to more things but perhaps a more universal port may be what is needed in the future.

Steve

Posted by Michael Schaffer (Member # 1204) on 02-09-2003, 10:21 AM:

Yes, I meant for setup.
Here is a little tip for all those innumerable fans of SDDS out there: The DFP-D3000 can be remote controlled via the serial interface (for instance with the Pennywise automation) if you put the connector into the input where it says "PC controlled" instead of into the other serial input - even though it is officially the other way round. But it doesn`t work in this way.

Posted by Ray Derrick (Member # 1001) on 02-10-2003, 12:18 AM:

Currently there is no PC "setup" for a Panastereo. We have thought about it in the past for setting up user options etc, but as the audio circuitry is mostly analog, not DSP, it probably would not be of sufficient benefit to a technican to be worth the trouble.

In my previous reply I was having a subtle (?) dig at the serial ports of some other equipment that get confused or fall over if they recieve data that is not in exactly the right format, or not carefully spaced out etc, etc. These are problems that can be easy overcome with good software design.

Steve, we have done tests with Ethernet for our automation systems and found it is not robust enough for such a harsh environment as a projection booth. Striking a xenon will often cause the Ethernet transceiver circuits to go into a seizure that only a cold boot can undo. The better system is RS422 or RS485 which will work reliably even under the worst conditions. A multi-drop RS422 system with appropriate software can do everything an Ethernet system can, particularly in terms of multipoint connectivity, without the heartache.

Posted by Dave Macaulay (Member # 813) on 02-10-2003, 08:19 AM:

The DTE/DCE terminology is essentially correct with the processor as DCE. The attached terminal usually talks plain ASCII to the processor. The computer programs we get to use are basically just GUI shells that send the command strings to the processor and translate the replies.
If you like typing and can memorize the command string formats and what the replies signify, you could use a terminal program, a real "dumb terminal", or probably even a teletype to talk to the processor. EQ settings on paper tape, anyone?

Posted by Ray Derrick (Member # 1001) on 02-11-2003, 04:17 AM:

For anyone who has an interest in communicating serially with cinema processors (or any other serially controlled equipment), I have written a Windows program called "Serial Talk" which is a significant elaboration on the usual terminal programs and comes complete with pre-written command sets for most serially controllable equipment used in cinemas (like the Dolby CP500 & CP650, DTS6AD, as well as all Panalogic/Panastereo products, Kodak Ektapro slide machines, Panasonic LCD projectors etc etc).

The program allows you to send and receive commands very easily and is perfect for testing and debugging serial comms installations. If you would like to download a free copy, just go here and it is all yours.

If you find it useful, don't send thanks, just send money [Smile]

If it crashes on you, I didn't write it, Bill Gates did! [Big Grin]

[ 02-19-2003, 02:34 AM: Message edited by: Ray Derrick ]