Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Xenon warranty

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Posted by Antonio Marcheselli (Member # 373) on 02-07-2003, 02:46 PM:

Hi everyone!

I wonder how Osram manage warranty of their lamps.
For example: I have a 7000W in one of our projector. On the datasheet Osram says "500h average life". Does it means that Osram will pay for everything can happen within 500hours?
If the lamp explodes at 450 hour destroying the mirror and the shutter will Osram pay for a new lamp and the damages?
Or will Osram pay for part of the damages while "average life" time is approaching?

Bye
Antonio

Posted by Jason Black (Member # 684) on 02-07-2003, 03:28 PM:

From my limited knowledge, teh manufacturer will not cover any damages incurred by a bulb that exploded within the warranty specs. I've been quite fortunate in that over a 15year periiod, I've only had 3 bulbs go back under warranty due to premature failure. None of them exploded, except one that was blown up inside the case upon reciept, and that only happened once.

Posted by Antonio Marcheselli (Member # 373) on 02-07-2003, 03:52 PM:

Jason,

I never experienced an exploded bulb. But I'm sure I've heard about exploded lamps where mirror and part of the projector has been damaged an Osram paid for the damage, once they verified that the failure of the lamp is a factory fault.

Antonio

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 02-07-2003, 03:53 PM:

AFAIK, you need to read the actual warrantee, as coverage may vary with the lamp manufacturer and maybe even the country. There is no standard coverage.

Posted by Antonio Marcheselli (Member # 373) on 02-07-2003, 04:50 PM:

Thanks John

Antonio

Posted by Erik Stevens (Member # 1497) on 02-07-2003, 04:50 PM:

I recently had a bulb prematurely die. It did not explode, but became very dull during one session. The bulb was an Osram 3kW. They are covered under warranty for 1500 hours. Mine lasted 1400 [Eek!]

. The rep from Osram is comming out on Monday to take the bulb for inspection, and complete the paperwork.

I believe that anything under its "Rated lamp life" is under warranty. I will find out exactly from the rep on Monday, and let you know.

Ciao,

Erik

Posted by Andrew Duggan (Member # 1302) on 02-07-2003, 05:40 PM:

For all the headaches that we all experience, dealing with some of these companies, this has thankfully been one area where I've never had any problems. I've had 3 lamps die under warranty before (thankfully no explosions, only xenon leaks. Erik, was this your problem as well?), and have never experienced any problems with getting them replaced/refunded. Normally when you get a new bulb, on the warranty sheet, there should be a fairly definitive list of what the warranty does & does not cover. And I hope to never have to find out of Osram will cover expenses for damaged mirrors & shutters [Smile]

Posted by Erik Stevens (Member # 1497) on 02-07-2003, 05:48 PM:

Yes Andrew, the bulb leak was the problem that I had. This is the second one in my experience that has 'gone' like this!

Ciao,

Erik

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 02-07-2003, 06:00 PM:

The better lamp manufacturers will cover the reflector/mirror if their lamp explodes within warranty but no other consequential damages (lost revenue or shutters).

The warranties are divided into 2-parts (in all the warranties I've dealt with on xenon lamps)...100% coverage and Pro-rata coverage. The 100% coverage is typically 50% of it's rated life. So if you have a Christie CXL-20 lamp with 2400 hour warranty, for the first 1200 hours they will cover 100% of the replacement cost of the lamp and/or the reflector if it exploded.

After 50% of the rated life, it goes to the sliding scale in the pro-rated life where they will still cover the reflector but only a portion of the lamp (you did get significant use out of it by then).

On larger lamps, like 7KW..the pro-rated section begins VERY soon...like 50 Hours into its life.

The above stuff is true in the USA...different countries may vary in their warranties.

Steve

Posted by Michael Schaffer (Member # 1204) on 02-07-2003, 08:09 PM:

I once had a lamp explode right next to me (it was really loud). Osram replaced the lamp and paid for mirror and heat filter.

Posted by John Walsh (Member # 168) on 02-08-2003, 03:33 AM:

I'm not sure about other bulb manufacturers other than Osram, but I feel their warranty policy is very good. For example, the the UPS guy dropped a bulb while delivering it to our Las Vegas theater. Osram covered it, without submitting it to UPS. They have bought us new reflectors in the past, also. The only thing with them buying replacement reflectors is, it takes about two months for them to evaluate and pay, and you must buy a new one yourself and give them the receipt. That is, you can't just keep the money.

Posted by John Spooner (Member # 1565) on 02-08-2003, 09:34 AM:

Dear Erik.
After the rep has been, could you let me know the results also for my own info.
We find that Ushio lamps are good.
John Spooner. Adelaide, SA.

Posted by Antonio Marcheselli (Member # 373) on 02-08-2003, 11:15 AM:

Thanks for all replies!

Antonio

Posted by Jean-Michel Grin (Member # 1360) on 02-08-2003, 05:24 PM:

Ciao Antonio,

On My knowleldge Osram and Other Lamp manufacturer will only replace the lamp if die at the half of is time life. In other cases the theater owner may receive a financial compensation regadless of the number of lamp burning.

Bye,

Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 02-08-2003, 10:43 PM:

If a bulb blew under warrenty, I just continued using the mirror even if it was badly "wanged". Of course, if you have a glass mirror and it shatters, that's a different story. When the new mirror arrived, that's when I change it.

The last "Q" arc that blew....well, I don't think the manufacturer supplied a new mirror. The dealer sent us a used one, but it was like new. I am not complaining. I think the dealer got stung on that one, and he acted in good grace to give us something that was equal to (if not better) than what was in the lamphouse when it was purchased as used equipment.

Nice to know that there are some dealers that have a heart out there... [Smile]

Posted by Kenny Thies (Member # 1551) on 02-09-2003, 01:25 AM:

Hey all,

I just had a 2k osram go out on me last Friday night. The bulb only had 298 hours on it, luckily I had a spare bulb and didn't lose a show out of the deal. Since I've been at the theater, we haven't had a problem with this lamphouse burning out bulbs quick and was really surprised that was the problem. I've had really good results with the Osram bulbs. I shipped the bulb back to my supplier hoping for a free replacement bulb. We will see what happens, they said it would be 3-4 weeks before Osram would let them know one way or the other.

Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 02-09-2003, 02:19 AM:

What did the bulb look like when it was removed?

Posted by Ray Derrick (Member # 1001) on 02-09-2003, 05:06 AM:

A very important thing about warranties that most people do not realise, is that a manufacturer's "warranty" simply means "what the manufacturer is prepared to do without an argument or a fight". Many countries or individual states around the world have a thing called "statutory warranty" which is laid down in law by governments. Statutory warranty is your protection under common law. If a manufacturer fails to rectify something that you believe is justified, even if the problem occurs out of the warranty period, you can often threaten them with legal action under statutory warranty and get results. So in many places you are not bound or limited by any warranty that the manufacturer may offer. If you ever have such a problem you should check with your local consumer protection authority as to your rights.

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 02-09-2003, 05:47 AM:

It doesn't get much better than this.

This is an Osram 2000 watt lamp. As is clearly seen, this hasn't even been used. It was removed from the box and found this way. How it managed to be shipped and NOT blow up is beyond me. This must have happened right at the point when the UPS guy dropped it off.

I don't want to think what would've happened if it was installed and THEN this happened! [Eek!]

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 02-09-2003, 10:02 AM:

I have had several ones like that recently

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 02-09-2003, 10:09 AM:

What brand were they?

Posted by Michael Schaffer (Member # 1204) on 02-09-2003, 10:14 AM:

I wonder what would have happened if the electrode had fallen off during operation. Would the lamp have exploded or would the electrode have molten a hole into the glass so that the gas would simply have escaped?

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 02-09-2003, 10:27 AM:

They were Osram 2000HS

Posted by Erik Stevens (Member # 1497) on 02-09-2003, 08:08 PM:

I spoke to my Osram rep today, and asked him about warranty. He gave me an XBO refund calculator. It has two discs, which rotate round each other. What you do is, have a look what the average service life for the bulb is, spin the disc around to how many hours the bulb has done. At this point it tells you how much of a rebate you will get.

For example, the bulb that 'died' on me was a 3000W. Its average service life is 1500 hours. Mine had done 1438. This means that I get a 5% rebate from Osram. Better than nothing [Big Grin]

.

Can I suggest that you get in contact with your local Osram dealer (if you are using Osram of coarse), and ask for one of these refund calculators.

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 02-10-2003, 08:29 AM:

Brad: Did you send those photos of the detached anode to Osram? What did they have to say?

That lamp is a real souvenier item --- amazing it didn't explode with that rattling around inside! [Eek!]

Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 02-10-2003, 10:03 AM:

Given that the envelope would have been under very high pressure from the hot, expanded gas, I'd guess (assuming it was being operated horizontally) there is a very good chance that the sheer weight of the electrode falling onto the bottom of the envelope would have fractured the quartz and that the rush of cold air entering the envelope would then do the rest, i.e. cause a big bang.

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 02-10-2003, 10:14 AM:

Brad said that the lamp arrived that way, and had never even been used.

Posted by Michael Schaffer (Member # 1204) on 02-10-2003, 10:16 AM:

But wouldn`t the internal pressure of the lamp make the xenon escape before outside air could get in?
We once changed a 5KW Osram lamp in a Kinoton projector. The problem was, the adapter which is fitted on the - end to make it fit into the projector was stuck and wouldn`t come off. A colleague of mine put the lamp into its plastic box and wrapped blankets around it, then tried to wrestle the adapter off. Suddenly there was a hissing sound as the glass around the neck had become weakened. Since the lamp was securely inside the box and several layers of thick blankets, there was no danger, but we were surprised that the gas simply escaped through the crack without exploding the lamp.
So I wonder under which conditions a lamp will explode and when it will simply leak. That sometimes happens during operation, too. I suppose you all have seen the effect when the lamp turns blue and black.

Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 02-10-2003, 11:34 AM:

John - sorry - I was speculating in response to Michael's hypothetical question, namely what would have happened if the electrode had fallen off while the lamp was burning.

I too am not sure of the circumstances under which a lamp will explode or depressurise intact. I'd guess that the key variable is the strength of the seal which joins the envelope to the two caps (i.e. is it weaker or stronger than the envelope itself at the moment of failure?), and that this variable can be affected by how much pressure the lamp is under at the moment of failure. I'd further guess that a hot lamp is more likely to explode than a cool one, because the internal pressure would be a lot greater. In particular, surely the envelope will expand under the combined forces of heat and the expanding gas inside, thus strenghtening the seal at either end? If so, that would make it more likely that the envelope itself would fail under abnormal pressure (i.e. blow up) than the lamp would depressurise.

Having said that, I've had a xenon explode on me when it was stone cold.

Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 02-10-2003, 02:15 PM:

Some time ago, I received an OSRAM XBO 1600 that had the anode still attached but it was sagging at least 10 degrees! I think there might be a material quality control issue involved.

Posted by Kenny Thies (Member # 1551) on 02-10-2003, 06:37 PM:

Paul,

The bulb I removed that had 298 hours on it, still looked like it was new. The bulb wasn't discolored, it was still clear as the day I put it in.

Kenny