Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Need info on Dolby Cat 150 Card

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Posted by Sam Hunter (Member # 1119) on 02-10-2003, 10:11 PM:

My CP50 has what appears to be a newer version Cat 150 card which doesn't match the schematic found in the manuals section of this forum. What I have is a CAT 150F Rev 5 module.
Could somebody tell me what this card can do and send me info on it?

I am unable to get audio out of my processor unless I press the OPT Failure switch. I have traced the audio signal to pin 10 of the CAT150F card but there is no output on pin 4 of the card. All operating voltages are present and the mono/stereo select line on pin 14 is high. I feel like I have a defective card but maybe there is something else I need to check.
The L, C, R, LED's are solid on with the S LED not lit.

Thanks!

[ 02-10-2003, 11:50 PM: Message edited by: Sam Hunter ]

Posted by Ken Layton (Member # 133) on 02-11-2003, 01:20 AM:

A CP-50 must have an external fader (100k linear pot) hooked up or you won't have any sound.

Posted by Sam Hunter (Member # 1119) on 02-11-2003, 08:01 AM:

I've got that installed.

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 02-11-2003, 08:16 AM:

The 150F is a pretty good decoder card Sam. There are a couple of voltage regulators on there that run quite hot and one may have failed. You could remove the 150 card and use either the LT or RT input signal to the 150 to jump over to the L,C,R,S output pins and see if the CP50 passes audio ok. If it does then do an RXO for the 150F. Donno what they charge for that, but it may be as much as the 50 cost you....The 50 is still well worth fixing though.
Mark @ CLACO

Posted by Sam Hunter (Member # 1119) on 02-11-2003, 08:28 AM:

Hey Mark, I bypassed the card and I get audio.
The Prologic IC doesn't feel warm at all.

Posted by Sam Hunter (Member # 1119) on 02-11-2003, 12:51 PM:

OAO [dlp]

[ 02-12-2003, 01:29 PM: Message edited by: Sam Hunter ]

Posted by Mark Hathaway (Member # 1044) on 02-12-2003, 07:30 PM:

Sam, while you have your cp50 apart, check for excess ripple from the power supply, its a non regulated pc with just a few caps and diodes, and the caps are probably quite dry by now.

I've seen 1v p-p ripple on the +24vdc rail (I think it was +24vdc) cause the cat150 (early version with sanyo decoder ic) to make strange noises when the surround gate opens and closes.

Mark Hathaway

Posted by Sam Hunter (Member # 1119) on 02-12-2003, 08:34 PM:

I did see some ripple on the 24V buss but it didn't look excessive. I sent the card back to the company I bought it from and they said they didn't have another card to replace it with and that he would look around for one. In the meantime I have another source who has a working unit for 100 bucks more that what this one cost plus shipping. I think I might see if they would take this unit back and refund the price and buy the other unit.
What do you do in this kind of situation?
Wait and see I guess.

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 02-12-2003, 09:43 PM:

never had a dead cat 150F yet to deal with
is a 110L or 160 installed

Posted by Steve Kraus (Member # 476) on 02-13-2003, 12:42 AM:

Sam, just jump Lt to L and Rt to R and sit in the middle! [Wink]

Posted by Sam Hunter (Member # 1119) on 02-13-2003, 08:17 PM:

Or use headphones [Cool]

Hey Gordon,
I have the 110L bypass card in my CP. Will update to the LFE card later, money getting low.

Where would I send this card in to be repaired and what would I be expecting price wise?

[ 02-14-2003, 11:16 AM: Message edited by: Sam Hunter ]

Posted by Sam Hunter (Member # 1119) on 02-15-2003, 09:08 PM:

I am truly frustrated at this whole deal. Surely somewhere in this country there ought to be a CAT150 card someone could let go of. [Mad]

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 02-16-2003, 01:03 PM:

Since they don't often fail most people don't keep a spare lieing on the shelf
contact your local dealer and Dolby will do a repair/ exchange on the 150F some of the older ones the chips just aren't made
Basically the dealer will ship you a card and you pay for it and then get a credit on the old one less the repair cost

Posted by Sam Hunter (Member # 1119) on 03-01-2003, 04:57 PM:

Well, the saga continues.
I sent my CAT150F off to be replaced and I recieved a CAT116A card instead. I didn't think much about it at the time as not knowing a whole lot about this thing I figured it was an early version CAT150. Anyway, installed it and and noticed that my right/left and surround works ok but no Center. Got to checking and found out that the CAT116 does not perform the same function as the Cat150 [thumbsdown]

The book says that the Cat116 is to be used in conjuntion with a Cat110 module. Is the Cat110 the same as a Cat110L?
Actually by rereading the manual I find that the CAT116A only decodes the Surround.
Here is my card compliment, can somebody please explain to me whats missing or whatever?
2 Cat108
2 Cat22
1 Cat109
1 Cat110L
1 Cat116A (Was Cat150F)
3 Cat64
1 Cat117
1 Cat112
1 Cat114

Thanks!
It just dawned on me what the difference is between the cat110 and the Cat110L.
The Cat110L bypasses the Cat110/160 and also by turning it around and and plugging it into Slot 7 bypasses the decoder card. Anyway it looks like I have 1/4 of a working system [thumbsdown]

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 03-01-2003, 05:21 PM:

the 110/116 is the original low seperation chipset from sansui and is terrible
Contact a reputable Dolby dealer and do a repair exchange on the 150F as it will be cheaper in the long run with far less frustration as well

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 03-01-2003, 05:21 PM:

Sam,
The bad 150F card is worth more than the old 116A card is. Who the heck sent this to you?? Get your 150F back and just have Dolby do a repair/exchange on it. You'll live happily ever after!
Keep in miond that you will see some power supply ripple there no matter what. As long as its not too much you're ok. Best cure for the CP-50 is toget rid of the red box completely and install an off the slelf switching power supply. The Red box can't run the 50 with 113C automation card, SR cards, and upgraded preamp card!! Someplace in these threads I did a post about changing out the supply....
Mark @ CLACO
Mark

Posted by Stephen Furley (Member # 1277) on 03-01-2003, 05:58 PM:

Sam, the CP-50 card set, including the older Cat 116A setup, is covered in pages 7.2 - 7.4 of the CP-50 manual. The 116A in slot 7 was used with a Cat 110 or 82 in slot 6. A 110 or 82 in slot 6 with a Cat 115 link card in slot 7 was used for non-surround installations.

The manual states that this was replaced in April 1979 by a 110L link card in slot 6 and a 150 decoder in slot 7.

Sounds like the 116A was designed to decode only the surround channel,with the cat 110 or 82 handling the other channels.

I agree with Gordon and Mark that you should send the 116A back, and get a 150. I don't think you could get the 116A to work without a Cat. 110 or 82.

If you put a 150 in slot 7, then you would seem to have a fully equipped CP-50.

This is all quite different to the CP-55 and 65, that I am used to.

Posted by Steve Kraus (Member # 476) on 03-01-2003, 07:22 PM:

You was robbed!

Posted by Sam Hunter (Member # 1119) on 03-01-2003, 08:09 PM:

I bought the unit from what I am told a respectable dealer but if this is what happens then maybe things are not as they seem.
I will say that I paid $300.00 for this unit and another company had one for $400.00. I shelled out another $95.00 for this board thinking it was a CAT150. I have sent the person an email asking that we do something positive about this and await his response. I do feel shorted on this because for what I have paid so far I could have bought the other unit.
Hey Stephen, I did read the manual and I was more looking for confirmation to see if I was understanding what I was being told more than anything else.
Thanks!

Posted by Daryl C. W. O'Shea (Member # 1303) on 03-01-2003, 09:23 PM:

Mark's thread: Good CP-50 Replacement Power Supply

Posted by Sam Hunter (Member # 1119) on 03-01-2003, 10:17 PM:

Interesting.
Thanks Daryl.

Posted by Stephen Furley (Member # 1277) on 03-02-2003, 04:29 AM:

Sam, I mis-read your post, I thought you hadn't seen the manual, but I read it the same way that you do, a 116A is not the same thing as a Cat. 150, and is not what you need. Otherwise, your CP-50 seems to be complete, and assuming that none of the other cards are fualty, it should work ok once you get a functioning 150 in it. As it stands, it cannot be controlled from an automation system, I don't know if this is of any significance to you.

If they are a reputable dealer, then they may just have made a mistake with the 116A, if they had a pile of cards in bags, including several different versions of the 150, then it wouldn't be too difficult for a 116A to slip in unnoticed. How was the card sold to you? If it was sold as a Cat 150, or as a suitable replacement for one, then this is not what it is, and there should be no problem getting it replaced.

$300 dollars sounds a rather low price for a CP-50 from a dealer, I see several people offering them here for 300-400 pounds, but it may be just that your dealers prices are good, or that prices here in England are higher than they are over there.

$95 also sounds low for a Cat. 150, even on an exchange basis, but too high for a 116, which would seem to have little value now, as an obsolete card, unless it has some other current use, that I am not aware of.

I know several places that ran CP-50s, most have now replacd them with 65s, 500s or 650s. It seems to be quite a good processor, is capable of doing SR if you swap the cards, and as long as you don't want to do 70mm or digital should be fine.

The one complaint I have heard about them is the power supply, If you replace that, and get the decoder sorted out, then I think you will have a good processor for the price.

Posted by Sam Hunter (Member # 1119) on 03-26-2003, 03:28 PM:

At long last my CP50 is fully operational. I sent the CAT116 card back and had my suppier repair the CAT150F.
Ran CAT215 and everything sounds fine, balanced all the output levels and I think I will leave the equalization alone for now as it seems ok to me.
And now for a lamphouse..............but thats another story.

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 03-26-2003, 11:28 PM:

"$300 dollars sounds a rather low price for a CP-50 from a dealer"
___________________________________________________________
Steven,
The CP-50 is still a very good processor in my book, especially when fitted with some of the newer cards and a good regulated power supply. Unfortunately, its not a full 6 chan processor, and as such is not easily compatible with any of the now popular digital formats without making some major compromises. Many are still in service in independent theatres all over the States. Most I see are still running type A NR cards in them...another serious strike against them as the 280's are way expensive......

The $300.00 price over here is pretty common for a unit with a CAT 150, or 150B in it, and all the other cards being original. I wouldn't put one in today unless it had all the upgrades in it...and that really makes the whole thing uneconomical to do. All in all. as good as they are, they are actually obsolete.
Mark