Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: To Bloop or Not To Bloop

This is topic To Bloop or Not To Bloop in forum Film Handlers' Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.

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Posted by Michael Brown (Member # 890) on 02-16-2003, 05:31 PM:

That is the question.

I used to always bloop (black chinograph marker over the soundtrack) splices. But now I’m not so sure. Unless there is a large gap between both frames, it's probably not needed.

EDIT: Here's a question. Lets say I’m building a print and I take time to remove tape instead of cutting frames. I find that when splicing the 1--->2 reel join, there is quite a large gap in the splice. Should I:

a: Make the splice and bloop it (assuming I have analog sound)
or
b. Take a frame off the foot of R1 and Head of R2 using my splicer that is aligned to cut to give a small overlap (i.e something like Brad's splicer mod)

Plus. How would the two different types of splices compare visually? In terms of jumping through the gate and so forth.

Posted by Manny Knowles (Member # 1171) on 02-16-2003, 06:23 PM:

I think this is a matter of taste, but it also depends on how forgiving your equipment is.

Splices with gaps always seem to jump in my projectors. Also, even with blooping, I seem to hear a bad splice go through.

I would cut the frames and resplice. I am partial to blooping; I don't see how it could hurt.

Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 02-16-2003, 06:33 PM:

Bah! Bloop - Schmoop!

Just make use the splice is done right in the first place - with clear tape!

Any splice that can "hinge" should not be allowed to run through the projector. It might make it through, and then again, it might not! Hinging splices have been known to pop a pad roller and/or derail itself.

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 02-16-2003, 06:34 PM:

I would look closely to see which frame is more "lacking" in end length, and recut that one frame. That way you can still achieve a good splice while keeping cuts to a minimum.

I've never liked blooping no matter how it is done. I can ALWAYS hear it go through.

Posted by Manny Knowles (Member # 1171) on 02-16-2003, 06:45 PM:

Oh my!

So far, it's two against one!

C'mon guys and gals -- do YOU bloop?

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 02-16-2003, 06:46 PM:

yup

Posted by Jack Ondracek (Member # 1466) on 02-16-2003, 06:56 PM:

Nope

With a good splicer & the cutting blade "augmentation" described on this board, you shouldn't have gaps to bloop.

Posted by Steve Kraus (Member # 476) on 02-16-2003, 07:04 PM:

Sometimes I will use a sliver of black electrical tape (cut by and placed with the tip of an Xacto) as a bloop, sealed under the splicing tape. I usually don't bother to ramp it; I just figure the momentary black (blocking what track lines would have been there) is less disruptive that a big fissure of light.

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 02-16-2003, 07:11 PM:

Manny, the answers are already contained here in the archives. Anyone making "butt" splices will be in favor of blooping because they have to. Anyone making "overlap" splicer wil be in favor of NOT blooping because they won't have to (and their splices will run through without any disruption).

Posted by Manny Knowles (Member # 1171) on 02-16-2003, 07:25 PM:

Yes, I see...

...and I'll be sure to try that splicer modification!

Posted by Steve Kraus (Member # 476) on 02-16-2003, 09:03 PM:

Hey if it works for you go for it. Personally I don't even like to see two layers of splicing tape (on one side) let alone overlapped film. I also think any end should be like any other, not some short and some long, but maybe that's just me.

Posted by Michael Rourke (Member # 1142) on 02-17-2003, 02:05 AM:

I find you don't need to bloop if you make all your cuts the same way..emulsion up. This ensures nice splices with a slight overlap that I like to run a thumbnail over. And wear at least one film handling glove to smooth the tape over the join, even clean hands have oils.

Posted by Gracia L. Babbidge (Member # 582) on 02-17-2003, 03:00 AM:

<-does not bloop!

Posted by Frank Angel (Member # 248) on 02-17-2003, 03:44 AM:

Splices that you make in your booth should not need to be blooped assuming the splicer is correctly aligned. As stated above, it is only when you get film that has been cut by misaligned splicers do you wind up with the troublesome gap.

As my fetish is that I will go to hell and back to avoid cutting off a frame, even to correct a frame that was cut "short," I use the Letraset black line tape to cover the frameline gap and cover the the soundtrack gap, and reenforce the splice so there is no hinge problem. The Letraset line tape is essentially what Steve is doing, only it is very thin, precut and has non-oozing adhesive, to say nothing of a lot less work. The line tape is then covered with splicing tape as usual.

I am surprised that an overlap splice will actually cause the film to jump the sprockets. In the old days of cement splices, the overlaps were wide -- the width of a perf -- and thick -- the double film thickness was much thicker than even four or five layers of tape. A well made cement splice hardly ever caused any run problems. I can't see how a double thickness of splicing tape, especially on estar base film should cause any problems.

Personally, I am not in favor of Brad's non-standard, slight overlap modification because someplace down the line, a cartoon or trailer or snipe that has been cut that way will wind up in a standard booth and either a short frame will have to be cut off or, at the very least, the gap it causes will have to be reenforced if the projectionist wants to save it. In the real world, most time the frame will be cut rather than someone taking the time to treat it so it will run properly.

Frank

Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 02-17-2003, 03:45 AM:

I found that with unilateral VA, single bilateral and RCA duplex tracks blooping did make a positive difference even with an overlap join, because however carefully a splice is made there will be a significant difference in the facing areas of modulation. But only rep theatres will ever come across these tracks now, and even then not very often.

Posted by Michael Brown (Member # 890) on 02-17-2003, 04:26 AM:

Plus digital sound people won't be blooping.

Posted by Lindsay Morris (Member # 1430) on 02-17-2003, 04:59 AM:

Always for me as well.
Main reason being that most of the stuff I get to work on with the platter at IFT in Perth are nearly always old rare prints so there is NO option to chop any frames.
I have to make do with what I am faced with and any gap due to butchery previously performed on the print I bloop the optical sound (as we are ONLY optical) with a black fine tipped permanent marker over the top of the splice tape.

I may hear it go thru but I doubt that the audience has any idea of what is going on and for my money it is far better to have a quick fade rather than a huge "BLUMP" in the sound system.

When the print is broken down the bloop vanishes with the splice tape. Even quite wide joins go thru the Ballantyne with hardly a ripple... just the usual clack as it hits the gate. All joins are done both sides and never seem to be unduly floppy even if the gap is around 2mm.
Any film repairs done on prints get a fine V shaped bloop and it is barely noticeable in the sound.
Lindsay

Posted by Steve Kraus (Member # 476) on 02-17-2003, 07:43 AM:

For those blooping with ink, what pen do you use? I don't think Sharpie ink is particularly opaque.

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 02-17-2003, 08:29 AM:

Frank, go back and re-read my instructions on making an overlap splice. There aren't "short frames" from that technique, plus no two splicers making butt splices will line up perfectly anyway. If both of us make cuts in a virgin print, your cuts will have a much greater chance that the next guy needing to assemble it will chop off the frames than mine will.

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 02-17-2003, 08:54 AM:

Remember, with "white light" analog readers, the material used for blooping must be opaque to infrared to be effective in covering any splicing gap in the analog soundtrack. India Ink was most commonly used in the past.

Posted by John Hawkinson (Member # 1135) on 02-17-2003, 09:22 AM:

We use mark-tex filmopaquer pens. [Do we bloop? It depends. Generally for a mid-reel splice I will, at least if the film doesn't have all-3 digital formats.]

mark-tex doesn't seem to have a web page that I know of, but here is one of their vendors' (Decon Laboratories) that seems sufficiently descriptive.

--jhawk

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 02-17-2003, 09:31 AM:

I could see those markers coming in handy for those older acetate prints with "on the frameline" cement splices. Where do you purchase them from? Do you have a phone number? Cost?

Posted by John Hawkinson (Member # 1135) on 02-17-2003, 09:43 AM:

I don't have a vendor to recommend at this time; the last people I bought them from had abysmal customer service, and I've no idea who we bought them from before that. I'd recommend you do a web search or check with your regular graphics product vendors.

You can probably beat this price if you shop around, but Valley Litho Supply has them for $3.40/dozen. If it's not obvious, we use the fine line version.

--jhawk

Posted by Bernard Tonks (Member # 809) on 02-17-2003, 10:34 AM:

The very best pen that I used for blooping was the BLACK N50 PENTEL PEN PERMANENT MARKER made in Japan. I always found them quick drying and remaining permanent, high density providing you do both sides. The secret was to keep them secure felt tip down, and before use, dab on paper first to improve the liquefy. Always keep packs or a spare pen in a fridge!

BTW I never had to bloop with a correctly adjusted tape splicer with Dolby SR system. The marking pen was only used on the odd Advert or Trailer that had a neg mark etc.

Posted by Douglas Curry (Member # 1485) on 02-17-2003, 10:48 AM:

In our box, we bloop every splice made, From leader to ads to trailers to feature. We run SR, SRD and DTS.
For our bloops we use a small, very thin (usually half a sprocket hole width) cut out triangle of white sticker (can't remember what exactly it's called...) and cover the join from the SR track out to the edge.. The reason we do this is 'Just in Case' there's a gap in soundtrack we can't visually recognise.(as everyone in our box has sleightly different splicing proceedure.)

Now, I've heard some of you mention that u'd never/should never bloop in a digital print? Why is this? Surely one sprockets worth of soundtrack being covered can't be worse than possible crack/pop in the sound from no bloop?

Posted by Mark J. Marshall (Member # 1409) on 02-17-2003, 11:02 AM:

quote:
I find you don't need to bloop if you make all your cuts the same way..emulsion up. This ensures nice splices with a slight overlap that I like to run a thumbnail over. And wear at least one film handling glove to smooth the tape over the join, even clean hands have oils.

Doofus film handler agrees with this.

I know the recommended method here on FT suggests hanging the head and tail off the same side of the splicer when cutting, but I don't agree with that. If you have the head go one way, and the tail go the other way, and make sure the sound track is oriented the same way with both cuts (either toward you or away from you), then even if your splicer is misaligned, both cuts will be cut identically and should match up perfectly. On top of that, the heads and tails will line up again of course, and if the next guy or gal simply peels off the tape, they'll line up again when they put the reels back together. This is no excuse to have a misaligned splicer, of course. But having a misaligned splicer is no excuse for making a splice with a gap in it either.

And remember, if it's a particularly loud dynamic scene with lots of light going through the soundtrack at the splice, then a black ("blooped") line might end up having a worse impact on the sound than leaving the white line. So I don't think anyone can definitively say to "always bloop".

Either way, I can easily hear black or white lines on the sound track that aren't supposed to be there, and I find it extremely annoying, so we try to concentrate on making good splices so we don't have to bloop.

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 02-17-2003, 11:05 AM:

A digital track may default to analog if the error rates are so high as to be uncorrectable. I suspect covering bits with opaque blooping would make error rates worse, and more likely to default.

Posted by Kenneth Wuepper (Member # 1174) on 02-18-2003, 09:56 PM:

John,

The supplies I use for blooping analog tracks and lab splices are as follows: available at your local blueprint and engineering drafting supply

Black Rapidograph Ink Universal #3080-F for paper and film
3/4 fl oz $2.55

Staedtler Marsmatic drafting pen .50mm tip
Model 700 / 050 $21.50

This ink is permanent on film and the point is small enough to control the bloop in the sound area. I often place a black covering over the image area where there is no emulsion as I feel that a thin black line is less distracting than a clear stripe on the screen.

KEN

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 02-18-2003, 10:18 PM:

Mark,

Please do not misquote a recommendation from here. Cutting with the film always on the left side ASSUMES you have made the necessary cutter alignment modification that is all detailed on the one page.

Clearly you skimmed the page and did not read through it.

Posted by Mark J. Marshall (Member # 1409) on 02-19-2003, 08:30 AM:

quote:
Clearly you skimmed the page and did not read through it.

I read it. I should have been clearer though. The intention of modifying the splicer cutter then cutting both pieces on one side is to create a slight film overlap. My point is that I just see no need for the overlap. Even with your modified splicer, if you cut one one way and one the other way, the two pieces should line up perfectly.

Tell ya what. I'll modify my splicers as you suggest (which I have no problem with, by the way), and when you come in to make a splice, you can make one that overlaps, and when I come in, I'll make one that doesn't. And neither one of them will need to be blooped!
[beer]

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 02-19-2003, 02:22 PM:

I know what you are saying, and for making butt splices that is definitely the best way to go about it, but there is still a gap when doing it that way.

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 02-19-2003, 02:38 PM:

Some lesser-quality splicing tapes may stretch with age, or excessive tension may pull the spliced ends slightly apart. So even a "perfect" gap-free butt splice may eventually have a tiny gap.