Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Single sided splices on short staying films?

This is topic Single sided splices on short staying films? in forum Film Handlers' Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.

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Posted by Josh Jones (Member # 447) on 03-02-2003, 01:44 AM:

Is this a good idea? I am mainly concerned with the motion detector dropping out and want to use this on our midnight shows, since they only run twice, then are torn down. I have two test splices in "The Matrix" now and they ran through fine. Does anyone see any problems with this method?

Josh

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 03-02-2003, 01:56 AM:

It all depends on the projector and platter you are using. Also, are there any short twists in the film path? Finally, what brand of tape?

Posted by Kenneth Wuepper (Member # 1174) on 03-02-2003, 06:55 AM:

Josh,

Do you have a desire to become a time study?

Basic bottom line here looks bad.

Savings: 12 splices w/o tape one side
30 seconds per splice = 6 min
6 min at $12/hr = $1.20 per feature
Risk: White Screen or Shut down Midnight show = priceless
especially with that crowd.
Bottom Line: NOT!
KEN

Posted by Nicholas Roznovsky (Member # 861) on 03-02-2003, 09:33 AM:

I agree with Ken. You're saving a few minutes at the most and risking a show interruption. I don't know what your customer mix is like, but I think midnight folks are the ones I want to anger the least.

Posted by Ray Brown (Member # 1449) on 03-02-2003, 10:49 AM:

I don't trust them period. Not only are you risking an interuption, you are risking damaging film when it bunches up in the projector or soundhead. Even with a fail safe, it still takes a few seconds for the motor and flywheel to stop turning.

Edit: I still remember digging the film out of a Super Simplex after one of those splices gave with 100 car horns honking and flashing they're lights at the screen. I was a newbie then, and it got me into the habit of double checking every splice I see on prints coming into the theater.

[ 03-02-2003, 08:03 PM: Message edited by: Ray Brown ]

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 03-02-2003, 11:50 AM:

When I was breaking down the fabulous "Equilibrium" I came across a one sided splice. Yup, it turns out I accidentally made a single-sided splice when I built it up. I must have been asleep that day. Anyway the print ran fine for the three weeks we had it. Tape was Neumade, projectors were the old Simplex 35s with 5 Star soundheads and Strong platters. The splice was in great shape at the end.

I am not advocating doing this, but just giving my experience.

Posted by Kenneth Wuepper (Member # 1174) on 03-02-2003, 06:00 PM:

Joe,
You must be Irish 'cus nobody is just that lucky! [Smile]

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 03-02-2003, 09:19 PM:

Actually I do have a bit o' Irish in me. [Smile]

Posted by Don Bruechert (Member # 1538) on 03-02-2003, 09:45 PM:

I'm trying to remember the movie that had the core trailer hacked out of it at the last second and a shitty splice from whoever did it. When I went looking for that splice to fix it I found it in the middle of about 3 feet of solid black and it was only a single sided splice. Good thing they spliced it bogus because it was with clear tape and nobody noticed it when they built up the print... I'm sure that would have given out in no time... I have that splice hanging on the wall as an example of something to watch out for....

Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 03-03-2003, 09:42 AM:

Somebody made a mistake recently and forgot to tape both sides of a splice. The splice doubled-up in the brain and caused a jam.
Lucky this was just the pre-screening!

(Simplex PR-1003 and Potts/Strong platter)

On the other hand, I have seen masking tape splices go through the platter and projector as if everything was normal! [Eek!]

I'm confident that a single-sided splice would be okay, most times but I wouldn't do it on purpose, though.

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 03-03-2003, 12:31 PM:

When "Forrest Gump" was re-released, we got our print just 30 minutes before the first showing, so I had to build it at serious warp speed. I missed seeing a one-sided splice in the middle of the 5th reel. I never even saw it.

The film ran just fine for the first five days of our run, but on Day 6 that splice decided to catch on the small roller leading into our split-film detector. Big jam, damaged film, and a resolve never to splice one-sided.

For the record, we are running a Simplex projector and soundhead, but the problem was not caused by the machine.

Posted by Philippe Laude (Member # 79) on 03-04-2003, 03:36 AM:

Joe,

I confess I've had the same misadventure as yours, last week, out of abstraction.
The film ran without any problem. It was on a Bauer B11.
I only saw my mistake when breaking down the print.
Do belgian people have irish blood too or do I have to keep a sharp eye on my wife?

Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 03-09-2003, 07:06 AM:

We have done it at the Circus Drive-in with high quality splicing tape. No problem whatsoever...However, I must admit our projectors were Brenkerts... [Big Grin]

Posted by Peter Schoell (Member # 919) on 03-09-2003, 01:30 PM:

By accident I ran a movie for a few weeks that had tape only on one side, and everything was fine.
Then I was setting up for a kiddie matinee trhat was only going to run a couple of times. I though , why not try taping only one side? The tear down will be easier. It turns out with Potts/Strong platters if you don't tape the right side you get a kink, then a reverse brain-wrap, and a bunch of unruly kids.
Even though I've never tried the one side thing again,I believe if you tape the outside of the film(as it enters the control arm)everything will work.
I was using Potts,Century SA,and Simplex SH 1000.

Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 03-09-2003, 04:35 PM:

Single-sided splices will run fine through Century projectors (C, SA, and JJ) and probably Christie AW3 platters, too, as long as there aren't any big twists in the film path.

But, as others have said, why take the risk in order to save a few minutes when breaking down the print, even if it works 99% of the time? If your theatre runs many once-only shows, then they should have a second machine in the booth. If these are only occasional once-only screenings, then it shouldn't be a big deal.

Posted by Douglas Curry (Member # 1485) on 03-09-2003, 06:09 PM:

i think single sided splices to be the devils splice..

that said, it did turn out that with our two prints of LOTR:2, i somehow managed to make at least one single sided splice in each print while running to platter.. [Eek!]

Both these prints ran fine the whole time we had them. It wasn't until our Tech broke the prints down we found this out, and man i coulda hung myself [Wink]

so in short, i guess it's on your own head. if it goes wrong and ends up costing in refunds and free passes (not to crashing the film and then equipment repair etc..), was it really worth taking a shortcut/being lazy?

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 03-11-2003, 12:39 PM:

Any splices that will be running through the projector should ALWAYS be made with tape on BOTH sides. Single-side splices may be used to reattach leaders, making it easier to peel the tape off without loss of frames. But in a changeover situation, ALWAYS tape BOTH sides for ALL splices, including those attaching the leaders.