Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Platter footprints

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Posted by Sam Hunter (Member # 1119) on 03-14-2003, 03:22 PM:

How much floor space would a platter take up or how much room would I need to have for one?

Posted by Manny Knowles (Member # 1171) on 03-14-2003, 03:35 PM:

It's not the actual "footprint" you have to accommodate. The disks themselves are usually wider.

Posted by Sam Hunter (Member # 1119) on 03-14-2003, 03:38 PM:

Thats what I am talking about, the total ammount of space needed.

Posted by Tim Reed (Member # 137) on 03-14-2003, 05:21 PM:

Sam, you can count on about the same space (maybe a little more) than a second projector. Depends on whether the discs are 48" or whatever, of course. Plus, I always tried to allow maybe 24" - 36" between the column and the front wall, to give a person room to walk behind it.

Posted by Manny Knowles (Member # 1171) on 03-14-2003, 05:43 PM:

I concur: Having a good amount of space between the post and the wall will save you a lot of time and stress. I think you will be much, MUCH happier if you can work that into your plans.

One of my little booths doesn't have enough room for that and it's a minor inconvenience that turns into a pet peeve and then graduates to become the centre of a hateful universe. Okay, I'm exaggerating (maybe). That same booth is tight on clearance between the platter and the back wall as well. I'd say we have less than 2 feet there. It's really horrible.

On the other hand, my favorite booth has about 18" - 24" between the post and the front wall and about 50" or more between the platters and the back wall. The discs are the standard size for Christie AW3's (not the mini size).

Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 03-14-2003, 09:46 PM:

Sam, whatever you do, make sure your platter is spotted in such a manner as you have plenty of "ass room."

I say this because of one incident that happened to me. The platter was too close to the wall, and when I was threading it, I stooped down and my tailbone hit an object on the wall squarely.

There is only one thing I remember that was more painful...and that was falling on the cross bar of my bicycle wen I was 16 years old.

Another thing I remember was seeing a control box on the wall which was about 5 feet off the floor, about 2 feet away from a platter mast. I can see somebody could crack their skull open if they hit it while standing up while threading a platter. As soon as I saw that, I moved the box up to 7 feet from the floor. This was at Cinema 5 in Mount Vernon, where the electrician's helper obvoiusly had his head up his ass when he mounted the box. [Mad]

Posted by Daryl C. W. O'Shea (Member # 1303) on 03-15-2003, 03:02 AM:

Same goes for film cleaners mounted on the top of the post. After hitting my head four times I took the darn thing off for the fifth show. Nearly knocked myself out.

Sam, make sure you have as much room as possible between the tree and the actualy projector. The more room you have, the smoother the payout will be.

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 03-15-2003, 03:35 AM:

Film cleaner mounted at the TOP of the platter? The only manufacturer stupid enough to do that (that I know of) is Big Sky. Is that what you are using, or is there another?

Posted by Daryl C. W. O'Shea (Member # 1303) on 03-15-2003, 03:36 AM:

Nope... Strong platter, dumbass installer.

Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 03-15-2003, 07:02 AM:

quote:
Paul Thompson: Another thing I remember was seeing a control box on the wall which was about 5 feet off the floor, about 2 feet away from a platter mast.

Been there!.. Done that!.. Bought the T-Shirt! [Big Grin]

I don't know HOW many shirts and pairs of pants I have ruined catching them on the sharp corners of junction boxes that stick out from the wall near the working area of a projector!

Not to mention, the number of scars I have on my ass from getting gored by pieces of sharp metal sticking out! I have stopped wearing nice clothes to work because of it. The boss tries to yell at me for dressing shabbily but I just tell him that I'll dress better if he gives me a clothing allowance.

Architects designers and install technicians would do well to consider the amount of "ass room" needed when designing and furnishing their buildings! [Mad]

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 03-15-2003, 05:41 PM:

There is nothing worse for your back than a slide port window freshly mounted between the platter and projector at just slightly above waist level.

Well come to think of it there is one equally stupid thing...installers who hard wire the power into the platter using a 6 inch strip of flex conduit to the box on the wall. And I always see this kind of nonsense in extremely large booths too! [Mad]

Posted by Sam Hunter (Member # 1119) on 03-15-2003, 11:46 PM:

Ok, heres a loaded question. Whats the best platter out there?
Whats yaws favorites?
If buying a used one which one would be the most reliable?

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 03-16-2003, 12:28 AM:

On the used market:

First choice: AW3
Second choice: LP270

There is no third choice.

Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 03-16-2003, 12:49 AM:

AW3 would be my first choice.

I would also settle for LP associates, Strong International, or Kineton, depending on the budget.

Posted by Tim Reed (Member # 137) on 03-16-2003, 12:56 PM:

What Brad said. I once bought three AW-3s for a song because a theatre circuit with some ex-GCC locations was a champion for Potts. Everyone walked away happy. I could've had more, but didn't have the storage space.

Now, I'm lucky to have storage space for my computer.

Posted by Fred Georges (Member # 505) on 03-16-2003, 02:01 PM:

Hi Sam, Are you considering a platter for home use? Before you commit you may want to check out using a film tower. You're a handy guy and could build one I'd think for about $2-300.00. Check out Greg Muellers'home theatre pix in the picture archive. He built a very practical one. [Big Grin]

Posted by Sam Hunter (Member # 1119) on 03-16-2003, 04:33 PM:

Hey Fred, I am considering that as well, just thought a platter would be cooler. I built a 6K setup for my 16mm setup and it worked great so I may build one for 35mm too but wanted to see how much space it required and how much trouble it would be to use.

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 03-16-2003, 05:01 PM:

Be forewarned that you need to have some kind of backtension on the feed reel. Also you need to make sure your unit can rewind with proper tension (extremely difficult on those large reels) or you are headed for film damage. (Ask Greg as he went through this in building his.) Also the large reels are very scarce and prohibitably expensive if you want to buy them new.

A platter (if you have the room) makes a whole lot more sense and is much easier on the film than a tower. Used platters are a plenty, but you have to make sure to get a good one. (Not one in good condition, but good meaning quality design.)

Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 03-16-2003, 05:06 PM:

For those who use platters at home: how do you store your prints? Do you keep them on 2000' or 6000' reels and make them up onto the platter for each show? Or do you get a bunch of platter center rings and clamps and store your prints ready to run?

Posted by Neil McGovern (Member # 1247) on 03-16-2003, 07:04 PM:

We use Cinemecannica CNR3-35s

Opinions on them?

Posted by Fred Georges (Member # 505) on 03-16-2003, 07:12 PM:

Amen to to that Brother. I used to scoff at the idea that back feed tension was necessary on a tower till I started working with an eprad double mutt and saw how gentle it could be. A decent used platter is going to set you back some dough though. If I may be permitted to "Morph" this thread I'd like to pose this question. Assuming NO failsafes which would you be more comfortable walking away from while in operation. A platter(any make) or a double mutt or tower? Nothing inferred, just curious. [Big Grin]

Posted by Daryl C. W. O'Shea (Member # 1303) on 03-16-2003, 07:18 PM:

Now that depends on how the take-up on the tower is powered and if there is any possibility that it can stop.

Actually, that doesn't matter -- platter wins. If I set up the platter I've got no problem with setting the start timer and going across town for dinner. Not that I do that.

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 03-16-2003, 07:34 PM:

If the tower is driven by a belt then no way, not without a failsafe. I've worked/known of too many reel to reel places where the damn belt broke during a show and there was no failsafe to stop the film from piling up underneath the projector.

Posted by John Hawkinson (Member # 1135) on 03-16-2003, 07:41 PM:

Under the projector is when you're lucky. The much worse failures are when the takeup failure causes the the film to build up inside the sound cabinet, potentially damaging the projector as well as the film. [Frown]

--jhawk

Posted by Michael Brown (Member # 890) on 03-17-2003, 04:31 PM:

Footprints on your platter?

Has Ian been round your place recently?

[Wink]

Posted by Tim Reed (Member # 137) on 03-18-2003, 12:28 AM:

Don't forget, on a DBL-MUT, the film is being pushed off the supply reel.

Posted by Andrew Duggan (Member # 1302) on 03-18-2003, 09:28 AM:

quote:
Not to mention, the number of scars I have on my ass from getting gored by pieces of sharp metal sticking out!

Couldn't have said it better myself. I have this one really ugly jagged scar on my lower back from lacing too close to the box. The night I did it, it took me about 20 minutes to realize that I was leaving a small trail of blood behind me as I walked around the booth. Needless to say, my clothes were completely ruined...

Posted by Sam Hunter (Member # 1119) on 03-19-2003, 10:17 PM:

Would I be considered weird if I said I will just stay with 6K reels and have an intermission. May go to a "tower" later on. Can you get smaller "Platters" ?
later [beer]

Posted by Manny Knowles (Member # 1171) on 03-19-2003, 10:29 PM:

Christie makes a "Miniwind" which is kind-of like a baby-brother to the Autowind AW3 and AW3R. The platter discs are smaller and, hence, the capacity (footage, running time) is less.

I'd be willing to bet that Brad could tell you just how much footage the Miniwind decks can accommodate. If not, someone else is bound to know.

As for the intermission -- If it isn't the director's intent to have an intermission then you are defeating the whole purpose of running 35mm at home. But that's just MY opinion...and I'm sticking with it.

Note to Daryl: Leaving a projector unattended is serious business. This can't be overstated. It's just wrong. I don't care if you're just going next door for a milk shake or a latte or perhaps to the pub across the street for a gin-and-gatorade with maybe an olive or a twist of citrus to calm your nerves because it was a long, hard day and nobody seems to understand just how painful it can be to be the short one, or the tall one for that matter...all right, I'm straying off-topic...So, okay, maybe I don't know what your situation is, but I do know how it is: Sometimes we just need that drink. But drinking isn't the answer...and leaving a projector running -- failsafe or not -- just isn't cricket. OKAY!?

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 03-19-2003, 10:31 PM:

Roughly 3 1/2 hours.

Posted by Sam Hunter (Member # 1119) on 03-19-2003, 10:33 PM:

3 1/2 hours huh? I bet finding a used one that size would be a pretty tough act.
Guess I could go the "changeover" route.
My "projection room" will not have a whole lot of space and I do not wish to be to cramped up to much.

Posted by Daryl C. W. O'Shea (Member # 1303) on 03-19-2003, 10:33 PM:

quote:
defeating the whole purpose of running 35mm at home

The WHOLE purpose? I wouldn't go that far. [Smile]

Sam, just get yourself some 7K reels, load them up with about 8K feet of film and don't run anything longer than 89 minutes. [Smile]

Posted by Sam Hunter (Member # 1119) on 03-19-2003, 10:37 PM:

Will have to wait and see how things work out I guess.

Posted by Manny Knowles (Member # 1171) on 03-19-2003, 10:39 PM:

See?

I knew Brad would know.

But I wouldn't have guessed it would be that much. Makes me wonder how come the Miniwind isn't more popular.

Posted by Aaron Sisemore (Member # 145) on 03-19-2003, 10:40 PM:

quote:
Christie makes a "Miniwind" which is kind-of like a baby-brother to the Autowind AW3 and AW3R. The
platter discs are smaller and, hence, the capacity (footage, running time) is less.

There are two versions of the Christie MW3 (Miniwind): The early version with a single motherboard that the three motor control cards plug into, and the later version that is laid out exactly as a full-size AW3 with the electronic components separated on the tree. The 'single-board' models have a nasty tendency to catch fire (I have had two of them do exactly this) which destroys the 'motherboard' that Christie no longer carries replacements for nor supports!! [Mad]

(Once again, been there, done that.) [Frown]

The early ones can be retrofitted to the later model's tree for around $1600 a pop.

The late model MW3 doesn't have these problems with going up in a blaze of glory, and all the components are easily replaceable with standard AW3 parts.

quote:
I'd be willing to bet that Brad could tell you just how much footage the Miniwind decks can accommodate. If not, someone else is bound to know.

The movie 'Amistad' came within 1/2" of the edge of the platter on an MW3. I believe that was 2h 40m of film. No room for a 'poo' with that much film either.

-Aaron

Posted by Sam Hunter (Member # 1119) on 03-19-2003, 10:46 PM:

Maybe I should have stuck with 16mm [Wink]

nahhh!!

I wanted a brenkert and by gum I got two of em. With any luck I will be purchasing a new home and I will be able to get rid of my modified engine stand pedestal (For sale) and go to my genuine 4 point brenkert Base [thumbsup]

along with full stereo sound (CP50) and remote controlled screen [thumbsup]

.
My biggest problem is getting my wife to let me cut a hole in her wall for a projection port into our living room [Confused]

Posted by Daryl C. W. O'Shea (Member # 1303) on 03-19-2003, 10:47 PM:

Manny -- the ONLY time I leave the booth is to check the sound and picture from within each of the auditoriums. I only said that I would be confident that a properly set up platter system could run itself if the need arises. I was simply answering Fred's question which was:

quote:
Assuming NO failsafes which would you be more comfortable walking away from while in operation. A platter(any make) or a double mutt or tower? Nothing inferred, just curious.

Posted by Sam Hunter (Member # 1119) on 03-19-2003, 10:49 PM:

Heres another question.
Can someone give me the lowdown on how cue detectors work?
Do these things have failsafes on them as well?

Posted by Manny Knowles (Member # 1171) on 03-19-2003, 11:03 PM:

Daryl, I was just messing with you. I hope you can find it in your heart to forgive me.

Pleeeaase?

Sam -- cue detector i use is the component engineering fm-35 and it can accept inboard, outboard and/or centre cues. Because of how wonderful my automation is (pennywise ca-21) I only need the centre cue.

How it works -- it's a proximity detector, so we use metal foil to excite the sensors and it sends a pulse to the automation. each zone (inboard, centre, outboard) has its own lead, which gives you some flexibility...

centre could be your lens cue
inboard could be lights up/down
outboard could be dowser open/close

or whatever you want.

my automation just looks for a pulse and then it does whatever is next in the program. that's why i only need the centre detector.

the fm35 is also a failsafe. it detects if film is present and also if film is in motion.

Posted by Daryl C. W. O'Shea (Member # 1303) on 03-19-2003, 11:06 PM:

I know... I'm just hungry. I ran out of nachos. [Wink]

Shoulda bought more than 4 bags. [Frown]

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 03-19-2003, 11:20 PM:

Oh Manny! I must insist that you get over to the theater immediately and change the wiring to use either the inboard or outboard edge cue on your FM35. There is simply no excuse to have a cue in the middle of the picture when you have such a fabulous automation as the CA21 which doesn't force you to.

Posted by Sam Hunter (Member # 1119) on 03-19-2003, 11:29 PM:

Nachos! yummmm

Posted by Manny Knowles (Member # 1171) on 03-20-2003, 12:54 PM:

Ya know, Brad...I never thought about it that way. It was an AMC thing to use a cross-cue on a frame-line and old habits die hard, I guess. Besides, it never bothered me.

I could go ahead and change it but first I would need to hold a training session to make sure that everybody's on the new program. The next general training that we do just before the Summer season gets underway. Something like this would have to wait until then.

Thanks for the tip.

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 03-20-2003, 01:02 PM:

Tell your builders to "double cue" the prints for the next month or so. Then when you go in to make the change, all of your prints won't need to be recued. Just have them put a center and inboard edge cue side by side.

Posted by Chris Markiewicz (Member # 1415) on 03-20-2003, 03:31 PM:

The Miniwind is rated by Christie to hold up to 2 hours 15 minutes of film. The most I ever put on ours was 2 hours 40 minutes, and I had to gaffer tape the Christie suckers on because they were hanging off the edge. It did not like running that last reel.

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 03-20-2003, 04:13 PM:

I measured the print of Two Towers at 42 inches diameter. The Miniwind is a 44 inch deck. 3 1/2 hours should fit fine.

Posted by Sam Hunter (Member # 1119) on 03-20-2003, 10:41 PM:

One of those platters would make a nice gift for my birthday which is coming up in a couple of months [Wink]

Seriously though, I might check into one of those things.