Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Why remove 1st head and last tail?

This is topic Why remove 1st head and last tail? in forum Film Handlers' Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.

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Posted by Joe Beres (Member # 678) on 03-21-2003, 04:21 PM:

I have never built a film for platter projection, but I've received hundreds of films that have been built prior to getting to me. 98% of the time, if a film has been built, the head of the first reel and the tail of the last reel have been removed (then reattached, if I am lucky, after breakdown.) It seems to me that it would be simple to leave those parts intact, and then attach any necessary threading/tail leader to the existing head and tail. Can anyone explain why films are built this way? Iam curious.

Posted by Daryl C. W. O'Shea (Member # 1303) on 03-21-2003, 04:23 PM:

There's no reason to cut the tail off the last reel.

As for the head of the first reel, I sometimes like to stick in a couple trailers between the leader and the head. [Smile]

In either case, it makes no difference whether you're using a platter or changeovers -- unless of course you have your trailers on a seperate reel and are changing over to the first reel of the feature (which I'd hazzard a guess you are doing).

Posted by John Hawkinson (Member # 1135) on 03-21-2003, 04:38 PM:

I believe there are three reasons to cut the tail of the last reel:

1. So you can put the threading leader between the end of the feature and the tail, so that the tail can get all damaged, dirty, twisted, and crumpled, and then reattached, so the next projectionist has an inconvenience to deal with. [evil]

2. Some people like to see the tail lettering (e.g. slashed titles if Deluxe Hollywood) on the outside of the built film on the platter, to save themselves the having to make a label. [this justification is also relatively weak...]

3. Projectionists who are to lame to notice the reel they are building up is the last reel.

--jhawk

Posted by Joe Beres (Member # 678) on 03-21-2003, 04:45 PM:

I'm pretty dumb, I forgot all about those little trailer things. That's another thing I rarely, if ever have to deal with. Thanks for the reminder. The tail cut still baffles me though.

Posted by Daryl C. W. O'Shea (Member # 1303) on 03-21-2003, 04:49 PM:

4. Dumbass projectionists that consistently have platter tail wraps and have to cut it off (along with a bunch of titles) to repair it. [thumbsdown]

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 03-21-2003, 05:09 PM:

If the tail leader is nice and clean, but was cut off, odds are the end of the movie (rating band, studio logo, end of credits, etc) is beaten to shit. The reasoning is at theaters that do not have functioning dousers or automations that they do not want the noise (visual and audible) showing at the end of the movie. So instead they just cut it off and REALLY trash up the end of the movie. People that do that just suck. (Fix your equipment guys!)

Additional protection leader should be added to the end of the factory leader. Otherwise there is unnecessary handling of the end of the movie in cutting it off to move it to the end of the factory leader. Plus anyone who does that is just trashing the tail leader to the last reel which in turn when spliced back onto the print will muck up whatever care there was to the end of the show. To add to the stupidity, it takes more time to do this than to grab a piece of tape and make a label. [Roll Eyes]

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 03-21-2003, 06:05 PM:

Maybe they are running a second feature in the same screen and both are on the same platter, hence cutting the tail of the last reel of feature #1.

Posted by James R. Hammonds, Jr (Member # 673) on 03-21-2003, 06:23 PM:

Am I reading somethhing wrong here?
Why would anyone put extra leader between the end rating and the tail leader?
Doesn't sound to make any sense.

Posted by Rachel Gilardi (Member # 1016) on 03-21-2003, 06:31 PM:

I work at a 2nd run house and I rarely, I mean RARELY ever see the last reels tail cut off. [Confused]

Do you commonly get prints from the same theater to have 98% (or so) of your tails cut off?

Posted by Pete Wolla (Member # 1581) on 03-21-2003, 08:20 PM:

we're second run and most end reel tail leaders are still attached.since we don't have any blank leader i've just been using an old ad to keep the movie off the floor.(no automation)is this ok?

Posted by Daryl C. W. O'Shea (Member # 1303) on 03-21-2003, 09:07 PM:

Pete - anything that is long enough to keep the tail of the print off of the floor is fine. I can't think of a better use for an ad than dragging it across the floor. [Smile]

Just make sure you change this drag strip regularly if you're not always using a film cleaner.

Posted by Jason Black (Member # 684) on 03-21-2003, 11:20 PM:

Cutting the tail and adding leader seems like a fruitless waste fo time, IMO. It is much simpler, and smarter, it would seem, to add the blank leader to the extreme tail of the film rather than cut it and insert it just prior... [Confused]

Posted by Patrick McDonough (Member # 1363) on 03-21-2003, 11:39 PM:

We never cut the tail off, unless the other projectionist gets it ripped off.

Posted by Nicholas Roznovsky (Member # 861) on 03-21-2003, 11:59 PM:

I can't really say that I've seen the tail cut off of too many prints either, even at our sub-run locations. The only time it seems to happen is when we get an older print for an auditorium rental.

Posted by Michael Schaffer (Member # 1204) on 03-22-2003, 12:21 AM:

We usually cut the first reel leader off since we had preconfigured threading leaders with all the sound logo or THX and company logo trailers permanently attached to them so that we didn`t have to cut the precious logo trailers all the time. The first cue was of course on our leader too so that we simply had to remove the head leader from the first reel, usually after the "3", and splice our leader on.
But we never cut off the final leader either. We would rather often attach some extra film so that the end of the film didn`t get scratched when leaving the projector.

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 03-22-2003, 10:08 AM:

Some theatres cut off the tail right after the last frame they want to show so as not to ever hear the "Tail out" noise. In some cases they don't cue (or possibly have an automation beyond a simple failsafe)...so there is a brief second of white screen...then the fail safe takes over.

Steve

Posted by John Scott (Member # 520) on 03-22-2003, 10:25 AM:

At my previous theatre, we used to cut off the tails because the theatre had Christie ELF platters.

Posted by William Leland III (Member # 1400) on 03-22-2003, 03:45 PM:

When I was first learning to build up prints, I would always cut off the last tail. Why? I was trained that way. It never dawned on me to leave it on. I soon stopped cutting the tail off. Leave the tail on.

Why would some leave the head of reel 1 on? Am I missing something? I can't think of a reason anyone would leave head of reel 1 on.

Posted by Manny Knowles (Member # 1171) on 03-22-2003, 04:01 PM:

I can't tell you how many projectionists I've had to convince that the tail should be preserved and cared for as though it were part of the actual show.

Unfortunately, some still aren't convinced.

Lots of movies got the tail ripped off because they left the tail taped down or something stupid and lame like that.

At least they're not shutting the dowser on the credits anymore.

Posted by Bruce Hansen (Member # 281) on 03-22-2003, 04:03 PM:

Splice some white (or other light color) leader to the end of the film's tail leader, and use a felt tip pen to write the info on it. This way you don't even need tape. I've never liked the idea of running that piece of tape through the gate, over, and over.

Posted by Michael Schaffer (Member # 1204) on 03-22-2003, 04:27 PM:

We had one of those hand-held label printers. It was very practical because you could print out small and easily readable labels which would easily pass through the gate and never peeled off.

Posted by Manny Knowles (Member # 1171) on 03-22-2003, 04:37 PM:

So long as the tape is not touching the edges that drag through the pressure plate, everything will be just fine.

All that lightstruck leader is gonna cost $$$ and my experience is that'd be the first thing to get cut from the budget if/when the money people find out that you're going through rolls quickly because you're writing directly onto it instead of re-using it.

I have a Brother P-Touch as well as a Casio label printer and I thought it would be cute to have neat labels like that but they would not stick reliably to the film.

Posted by Bruce Hansen (Member # 281) on 03-23-2003, 03:40 PM:

You don't need lightstruck leader for this purpose, white painted leader is fine, and costs about $22.00 for 1000'.

Posted by Neil McGovern (Member # 1247) on 03-25-2003, 08:44 AM:

William>

quote:
Why would some leave the head of reel 1 on?

If they were using a crossover system, with Adverts/Trailers on a seperate reel, it would be left on to protect the print.