Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Question about ORC 1600 lamphouse

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Posted by Sam Hunter (Member # 1119) on 03-24-2003, 11:12 PM:

Is their such an animal and what are its specs?
Thanks!

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 03-24-2003, 11:32 PM:

It's just like the ORC 1000 watt integrated portable lamphouse, but it runs 1600 watt bulbs and runs off of single phase 220.

Posted by Steve Kraus (Member # 476) on 03-24-2003, 11:33 PM:

The 1600 that I'm thinking of is a small lamphouse tied to an external large, flat rectifier with a multipin mil spec connector that includes the heavy DC connections as well as the other conductors. The rectifier is regulated on the DC side using a large bank of germanium transistors set in a heat sink with current dividing resistors. On many units the regulation is blown and it continues to run wide open with hardly a hiccup. The manual says it's rated at 45-55 A. Therefore it's really more of a 1000W lamp, just as the "ORC1000" is better suited for 700W bulbs. I have a couple of these units sitting in storage.

Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 03-24-2003, 11:42 PM:

Sam, are you talking about the ORC XH-16S? the power supply is an XPS-16S. Both units are very reliable, and give a nice light on the screen if aligned properly. The igniters are easy on the lamps, (they don't splatter shit all over the place on ignition) but you should have an aux blower mounted in stack. They are easy to align, easy to interface with automation units, and they don't weigh 1 zillion pounds. I have two of these units in my personal possession, and I would not part with them for hell or high water!

Only real downside....when you have to clean the blower that is inside the lamphouse, you need one stick of dynamite to blow the bastard apart so you can get at it. [Big Grin]

In otherwords, ORC did not make that lamp "technician friendly" when it comes to cleaning the blower motor. [Mad]

And, for Steve....you are right about that "Other 1600" lamp and power supply. Paul Mayer has one of the power supplies. Those are a bitch bitch bitch! I have one of those, too. Would not give you .02 cents for anyone of them.

Posted by Sam Hunter (Member # 1119) on 03-25-2003, 12:19 AM:

I am not sure if its an ORC XH-16S or what. I found one on Ebay and I have asked the seller for more info. I would like to find me a nice 700-1000 wat 110 VAC unit soon.

Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 03-25-2003, 12:28 AM:

Sam, if it an XH-16S and a XPS-16S, go for it. However, I am not sure what they are worth. If the mirror was in excellent condition and the rest of the lamp and power supply is also in perfect shape, it may be worth looking into. As far as I know, they will still bring up to $1000.00 (lamp and power supply). But they better be in perfect shape. Otherwise, you might be wasting your money. It is a "buyer beware" type of deal, and shop around. Don't get in a hurry.

Posted by Sam Hunter (Member # 1119) on 03-25-2003, 12:30 AM:

Thanks for the input fellers. [thumbsup]

Posted by John Anastasio (Member # 607) on 03-25-2003, 05:15 AM:

I saw that one, Same. It's rather small and looks like the model 1600 that Steve mentioned above, with the big multipin connector. I've got one sitting on my porch and mine's a real piece of cat poop.

Posted by Jonathan Worthing (Member # 803) on 03-25-2003, 07:30 AM:

quote:
It's just like the ORC 1000 watt integrated portable lamphouse, but it runs 1600 watt bulbs and runs off of single phase 220.

Like the ORCON 1000B the 1600B will not run a 1600W lamp IMO

The on board rectifier has not got enough kick.

In fact most of the ones in the UK that I have come across have an external rectifier when running 1.6k.

Saying that it is a good compact lamp house & compared to many is not complicated to get good focus & light output.

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 03-25-2003, 08:56 AM:

This has been covered before
The M1000 has a maximum rating of a 700 watt lamp
The M1600 has a maximum rating of 1000watts
This was based on the fact that the M1000 @700watts produced the same amountof light as a 1000 watt vertical lamphouse of the period
The 16S was a 1600 watt unit with an external rectifier the early ones were a bank of transistors for current regulation

Posted by Sam Hunter (Member # 1119) on 03-25-2003, 12:23 PM:

here is the photos of the unit in question:

I am still awaiting better info.

Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 03-25-2003, 01:30 PM:

That thing looks like a Cine-X 35. It uses the power supply Steve described earier.

I have one sitting in our warehouse that will probably wind up in the trash. The mirror is shot, and it would cost more to get the mirror resurfaced than what the lamp and power supply is worth.

Sam, IMHO, forget that lamp. I think you would get hosed on it.

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 03-25-2003, 02:36 PM:

Granted these lamps and power supplys are worth perhaps 500.00 if working properly, but they are not all that bad. I know many places that rented these units and they never gave a blip of problem. Main thing here is to get plenty of air flow through the lamphouse. The rectifiers already have adaquate airflow going through them. I used several of these on location and got many years of service out of them. I had great lamp life, and little to no problems at all.
These days the replacement semi's are quite expensive to aquire as the power transistors are germanium, and cost about 35.00 a pop. But the main thing is that you can still most of the parts for them, except reflector, and cabinet parts. All in all they were quite advanced for their time......
Mark

Posted by Sam Hunter (Member # 1119) on 03-27-2003, 11:12 AM:

For better or worse its mine now.

Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 03-27-2003, 11:59 AM:

Good luck with it, Sam. I have some parts if you need them if the lamp and power supply didn't find its way into the dumpster. I am going down to the office in a little bit, and if I still have it, I'll "rathole" it for you. [Smile]

Posted by Sam Hunter (Member # 1119) on 03-27-2003, 12:17 PM:

Thanks Paul,
It's a gamble but I hated to pass it up for the price.

P.S. Where might I find a manual for this puppy?

[ 03-27-2003, 02:13 PM: Message edited by: Sam Hunter ]

Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 03-27-2003, 03:32 PM:

I might have one, if I am lucky.

Posted by Sam Hunter (Member # 1119) on 03-27-2003, 03:43 PM:

I would be glad to pay you for a copy.
Thanks Paul!

Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 03-27-2003, 07:52 PM:

BAH!

If I still have one, I'll just send it to you. [Smile]

Posted by Sam Hunter (Member # 1119) on 03-27-2003, 07:54 PM:

Your a good man paul [thumbsup]

Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 03-27-2003, 08:41 PM:

Thank you, Sam. If I find the manual, I'll burn a copy for Brad's Manuals Archive also. [Smile]

Posted by Sam Hunter (Member # 1119) on 04-14-2003, 03:21 PM:

Ok, recieved my ORC today and all looks good except for the thing has no bulb. The question is and refer to the pics for clarification is what type bulb do I use? (1k should work for me). Where is a good cheap source? What else do I need to get the bulb to fit? The cathode end has a threaded collar as you can see in the picture.
Also, what do I use to clean the reflector with?

Thanks!

P.S. I still need a manual for this rig and the power supply.

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 04-14-2003, 03:30 PM:

The lamps originally supplied were ORC X-1000 (15 to 35 amps) or ORC X-1600 (30 to 55 amps). The power supply was Model RPS-X16.

Posted by John Anastasio (Member # 607) on 04-14-2003, 03:45 PM:

That's a metal reflector, Sam. Stainless polish works well and will bring it up to a nice gloss. The lamp you need has a threaded end with two pins that stick out. The protective cover that the bulb comes in is used as a "wrench" to screw the thing in so that it's always protected until the bulb is actually installed. You only have to slip the ring over the front and tighten that hex nut to finish the installation, being careful not to push too hard on the lamp laterally when you do that. Be sure to dress that cable away from the reflector at the bottom. It looks from the photo as though it had an arcing problem down there at one time.

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 04-14-2003, 04:31 PM:

If the the lamphouse was a M1000 serries the lamp is a 700hs
If it was a 1600 then the lamp is a 1000hs
the 1600 watt lamp some is 1600hs

Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 04-14-2003, 05:49 PM:

Sam, the power supply I sent today is the RPS-1600, just exactly what you need. It is complete with the lamp cable, and the primary power wiring that I ripped out of the wall when I removed it from service when the theatre closed.

I don't have a roadmap on it, maybe Paul Meyer has one.

Posted by Rick Long Jr (Member # 541) on 04-14-2003, 08:37 PM:

I noticed in the second to last picture you have up there, that there appears to be some burning of the reflector by the igniter. Looks like the ignition voltage likes to jump there a lot! Just thought I'd mention it in case you run into problems firing it up. [beer]

Posted by Sam Hunter (Member # 1119) on 04-14-2003, 10:54 PM:

I don't remember a Paul Meyers. How do find him?
Thanks!

Posted by Daryl C. W. O'Shea (Member # 1303) on 04-14-2003, 11:09 PM:

I think Paul might have meant Paul Mayer. He's in chat right now... go quick, go!

Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 04-15-2003, 12:09 AM:

Oops....I spelled Paul's name wrong. Sorry. [Big Grin]

Posted by Luciano Brigite (Member # 1104) on 04-15-2003, 12:28 AM:

Hi,
While looking at the pictures of this lamphouse, I noticed that part of the ignitor assembly is showing behind the reflector.
I have two ORC ignitor assembly that looks like that one and both of them had the spark gap broken (the glass bulb I mean)
and I want to replace them but since the bulb is gone, no code for that part, could anyone tell what kind of gap is that?
I was thinking about replacing with a std gap but don't know if the original one was a special gap since it was assembled in a glass tube. thanks

Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 04-15-2003, 01:34 AM:

Luciano, I do believe that spark gap is the same as you would find in the XH-16S ORC lamphouse.

JFI, the igniter laying on the floor of the Cine-X 35 (which is the 1600), 2500, and 3000 ORC lamps shared the same problem....Arc-off to the mirror. It shows in Sam's picture. Here are two pictures of a junk lamphouse of mine.

Speaking of lamphouses, the ORC 2500 uses a more ballsey version of the RPS-1600 power supply, and its model number was the RPS-2500.

The 3000 usually uses the RPS-40 power supply. The RPS-40 and the RP-60 are a critters all by themselves. If I recall, the RP-60 uses 3 phase power, but I can't be certain. It has been 20 years since I fiddled with them. Anyway, they both use a magnetic amplifier for current adjustment. It is basically a saturable core reactor, using a DC voltage on the control winding to change the saturation level of the power transformer.

For electrical history buffs, the magnetic amplifier was invented by the Germans. We found them on some old WWII German submarines. They are highly efficient in their operation. [Smile]

Sam, the ORC 1600 lamp is almost identical to the ORC-3000 and 2500 lamp in wiring. That might help you. The only real difference I have seen is the XLR connector is not used in the 3000 or the 2500. If memory serves me correctly, that connector was part of the automation loop. Jumpering pins 1 and 2 complete the automation loop.

The XH-16S and the XH-30S lamps are a different mechanical design. The re-located the blower and placed the igniter on the top of the mirror bulkhead. Much nicer to work on. [Wink]

The XH-16S and the XH-30S lamps are still quite popular. Many are still in service.

Posted by Luciano Brigite (Member # 1104) on 04-15-2003, 12:45 PM:

ORC lamphouses are very rare stuff here where I am then I don't know the XH-16S Paul mentioned, but I believe I could figure out the code for the spark gap in the picture he posted ,?SF 500 .
one curious thing.. both ignitors I got had burnt terminals on the tesla coils, just like the one showing on the pictures, replaced them with coils for up to 2500W,is that a common problem with them? thanks [Smile]

Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 04-15-2003, 01:32 PM:

Be careful on the coil selection. They have different electrical ratings, and different mechanical dimensions. In other words, if you used an igniter from a 3000 and tried to put it in a 1600, it might not fit. Even if it did fit, you would probably have to use a different spark gap. If you tried to use a 1600 igniter in a 3000 lamp, it would probably burn up the black transformer.

Edited for clarity purposes.

[ 04-15-2003, 04:28 PM: Message edited by: Paul G. Thompson ]

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 04-15-2003, 01:36 PM:

Interesting choice to put plastic components (like insulation) in an area where the UV-rich arc energy could shine on them and degrade the materials. Heat is bad enough for electronic components, but strong ultraviolet (UV) energy will eventually destroy many plastics.

In the photos, you can almost discern where the light hit the components.

Posted by Sam Hunter (Member # 1119) on 04-15-2003, 02:37 PM:

Many Many Thanks all for the advise and information!
Think I found me a source for a new bulb so thats out of the way. Can't wait to see what kind of a monster paul is sending me.
Anyway, thanks all. [thumbsup]

Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 04-15-2003, 02:41 PM:

Luciano, the spark gap is a SPSG500, and was made by Victoreen, Inc. of Cleveland Ohio, I believe. I also don't know if this company exists anymore.

I think you can fabricate your own spark gap without too much trouble. I have seen some home brews that use 1/4-inch bolts, and I have seen some using rounded tip 6-32 Allen screws. The thing you will have to be concerned with is the gap. If the gap is too wide, it may not fire. If the gap is too small, the ignition pulse may not be hot enough to fire the bulb. I don't know what the gap should be, but .050 inches seems to enter my mind. In any event if you make your own and don't have the gap specifications, it'll probably be a trial and error method to see what you need. If your lamp still works with the broken glass, measure it with a feeler gauge and set your contraption to that setting. You should be just fine.

BUT REMEMBER......SAFETY FIRST!!!! Ignition pulses getting into your fingers will throw you through the wall behind you, if it doesn't kill you first! Been there.

ORC used several different types of spark gaps through the years, but I don't know if this specific one is still available. There have been some retro-fits out on the streets that used a tube instead of a glass bulb like yours.

The ORC Optimax Console used basically the same igniter as the XH-16 lamp, but it was mounted differently. Later today I'll go and check the manual and see if I can dig up a current part number of someting that might work.
****************************************************************
Sam, it weighs 100 lbs and sleeps by the door. If you trip over it, it will not move. If you drop it, it won't stop until it reaches China. [Big Grin]

Stick with a 1000 watt bulb, though. Although a 1600 will work, it would be starved of current.

Edited for technical clarity.

[ 04-15-2003, 04:30 PM: Message edited by: Paul G. Thompson ]

Posted by Sam Hunter (Member # 1119) on 04-15-2003, 03:01 PM:

quote:
Sam, it weighs 100 lbs and sleeps by the door. If you trip over it, it will not move. If you drop it, it won't stop until it reaches China.

Kinda like a sleeping lion huh paul?

Yes, I have ordered a 1K lamp for this beasty.
Later!

Posted by Luciano Brigite (Member # 1104) on 04-15-2003, 04:03 PM:

Thanks for the complete code Paul [Smile]

The reason I was asking about it is because the gap was sealed in a glass tube and I don't know if it was suposed to have vacuum or then another gas inside. I'll look for that gap and if I can't find, I'll replace it with the ones I'm used to see on the ignitors made here . The coil I made as replacement isn't much bigger than the original one, except that it doesn't have that rock-like stuff all over it. I used teflon tape ( the white one ) and high voltage electrical tape. Id take some pictures of it if that's of interest, just let me know .
And I know how nasty an ignitor "bite" can be.. had it twice [Frown]

Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 04-15-2003, 04:47 PM:

The ORC spark gap part number that might work in your application is 1122349. What they cost is a very good question.

However, it will probably cost an arm and a leg for overseas shipment and probably is not worth the hassle.

Posted by Luciano Brigite (Member # 1104) on 04-15-2003, 05:46 PM:

Thanks again Paul [Smile]

There is one electronic parts supplier here in town that still deals with tubes ( I think they're the last one that still deals with tubes), half of them for transmitting and industrial applications, I'll try there first, who knows? maybe they can have it if not they'll point somewhere to look for.
If I can't find, will spend the weekend in the shop making them.
Thanks!

Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 04-15-2003, 08:10 PM:

Fabricate a spark gap similar to what transmitters use in some of their tank circuits. Little brass balls screwed on the ends of 6-32 machine screws mounted on bakelite or some other non-conducting materials. That should work nicely, and will probably never fail. [Wink]

Then you can say your lamphouse "Has Balls..." [Big Grin]

Posted by Luciano Brigite (Member # 1104) on 04-16-2003, 08:54 AM:

*chuckle* balls and bulbs [Big Grin]

I'll try to remember to take some pictures of whatever i come out with those ignitors.