Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Splices in speaker wire runs

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Posted by Tom Wienholt (Member # 1510) on 03-24-2003, 11:48 PM:

I read in one of the forums that having splices in speaker wire runs should be avoided. Is it really that important to avoid splices? I had to splice an extra 10 feet of wire behind the screen to reach each speaker. I made connections with wire nuts. Is this ok?

Posted by Steve Kraus (Member # 476) on 03-24-2003, 11:54 PM:

It won't be to the purist.

Personally, I think you should solder the connections so you don't have to worry about oxidation getting in there years from now. Maybe leave them as twisted by the wire nuts but solder (with an gun or torch sufficient for the size of the conductor to do a good job) then when cool twist the nut back over it.

Posted by Sam Hunter (Member # 1119) on 03-25-2003, 12:22 AM:

I second Steves thoughts. If you solder and use heat shrink you should have no problem at all.

Posted by Tom Wienholt (Member # 1510) on 03-25-2003, 12:57 AM:

What about when hooking up 2 subwoofers in parallel. I have one pair of 10 gauge wire running from the booth to the woofers behind the screen. How else could I wire the two subs in parallel without using wire nuts?

Posted by Aaron Sisemore (Member # 145) on 03-25-2003, 01:40 AM:

Like this:

All you need is a simple barrier strip (which can be screwed to the back of one of the subs) and some fork lugs for all the connections. Make sure you solder the connectors to the wires as a crimp may not hold with heavier gauge wire.

-Good Luck! [Smile]

-Aaron

Posted by Neil McGovern (Member # 1247) on 03-25-2003, 08:40 AM:

If you're just using +ve and -ve wires, it's worth looking into attaching XLR connectors to the bare wires, which prodeces a very good seal. Make sure that you don't get the solderless connectors though.

HTH

Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 03-25-2003, 08:41 AM:

I vote, "Yes, if you solder."

Make your splice in-line instead of simply twisting the wires together at the ends. (Greater area of contact between the wires.)

Stagger them if you can so you don't have two splices right next to each other. (Prevents the possibility of them shorting together.)

Tape over the splice(s) with a good grade of electrical tape and then put heat shrinkable tubing over that.
If you can find silicone insulating tape use it instead of electrical tape. It has insulating properties at least as good as the original insulation.

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 03-25-2003, 08:50 AM:

XLR connectors are not designed for #12 and #10 wire to connect to them nor are they designed for any current capacity
If you want a connector use the Speakon's from nuetrix

I preffer wire nuts to soldering speaker wires Never had any corrowion issues even in some pretty damp and humid locations

Posted by Steve Kraus (Member # 476) on 03-25-2003, 10:53 AM:

I'm just supposing that since some people claim to hear a difference between solid and stranded and the fuss some make over special wire, oxygen-free copper and all that, that particularly with cable where the conductors are large that the small contact area where the twisted strands touch ought to be supplemented by solder which will also prevent the formation of a brown oxide later on the copper surfaces.

Posted by Jack Ondracek (Member # 1466) on 03-25-2003, 02:08 PM:

quote:
ITS when something belongs to something
IT'S A contraction of "it is"

Thank you! [thumbsup]

Now, if we could just send something NOOK-YOU-LUHR at everyone who says "DUBB-YUH", and "NOOOOZE", and......

um...... sorry.... got carried away there! [Big Grin]

Posted by Tom Sauter (Member # 616) on 03-25-2003, 04:43 PM:

The 12 guage 120VAC wiring in US homes carries more dangerous stuff than your average speaker run and does just fine with wire nuts. I like Randy's suggestion of staggering them a bit. Makes for a nicer cable dressing.

I recommend against splices in theatre wiring mainly to prevent electricians from squeezing the last little bit out of a spool to save a buck and cause me to spend too much time ringing out the wires they didn't pair correctly or worse poor splices they made that short an amplifier to ground.

Posted by Phil Hill (Member # 371) on 03-25-2003, 05:47 PM:

Actually the higher power amps put out significantly more dangerous "stuff" than the common household 120vac "wiring". A 120V/20A circuit carries 2400 watts. Many amplifiers put out 3 or 4 or more kilowatts and require class I wiring because of the voltages and currents they carry....most times in conduit.

>>> Phil

Posted by Steve Kraus (Member # 476) on 03-25-2003, 06:04 PM:

Jack, I thought you'd appreciate that I called him "Mr." [Smile]

--

I would submit that an extra, say, quarter ohm resistance might have deleterious affect on the sound especially during peaks. That same quarter ohm on a power circuit pulling 10 A. is going to cause 2.5 W of heating and not much else.

Posted by Daryl C. W. O'Shea (Member # 1303) on 03-25-2003, 06:14 PM:

I'd sooner lick a live pair of 110V wires than the output of any serious amplifier any day. Then again that's just me... and explains quite a bit. [Smile]

Nuetrix's Speakon connectors are great for non-permanent setups. In fact you'll find them in most any speaker designed for road use.

Posted by Phil Hill (Member # 371) on 03-25-2003, 06:26 PM:

Daryl: "Lick"? Hubba Hubba! [evil]

Speakons R great! Do NOT use XLRs!

>>> Phil

Posted by Daryl C. W. O'Shea (Member # 1303) on 03-25-2003, 06:30 PM:

OK, usually it's more like "where the hell'd I put my knife... damn, no time, I'll just use my teeth".

Then it sometimes follows, "who the *&%# turned that amp / distribution breaker on! You *&%#@$! sonofa..."

Posted by Steve Kraus (Member # 476) on 03-25-2003, 07:33 PM:

I am aware of a place that drives its Eastman 25 at silent speeds by way of an oscillator and an audio amp. So yeah they can put out some serious output.

Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 03-25-2003, 09:55 PM:

I second the Speakon! We use them on our speakers. They're great!

Virtually indestructible. Impossible to hook up wrong. (Assuming the connectors were wired correctly upon installation.) Can not short upon connection/disconnection. Positive locking upon insertion.

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 03-26-2003, 12:12 AM:

Actually, the 3-pin XLR is defined as having a 15amp current carrying capacity. That is one of its characteristics.

Steve

Posted by Rob van Ede (Member # 1457) on 03-26-2003, 02:48 AM:

I've seen and used pro loudspeaker cabinets with XLR (speakerlevel) inputs. Never seen a burned connector though. One thing i have seen is someone using a microphone cable between amp and speaker. Halfway the evening all the insulation had melted. That can't happen with Speakon.

I too see some problems on terminating decent speaker cable in an XLR connector.

Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 03-26-2003, 01:17 PM:

I would never use an XLR connector in a Speaker run. As Gordon said, AWG 10 or 12 wire just doesn't fit without birdcaging the wires.

And, of course, there are many quality levels from puke to top-of-the-line XLR connectors. I think Switchcraft made the best, and Radio Trash made the worst.

I have used wire nuts, and have hot had any problem with them. I have also used barrier strips that Aaron posted, and have not had any problem with those, either.

Posted by Phil Hill (Member # 371) on 03-26-2003, 06:04 PM:

I agree Paul. The "primo" Switchcraft and others are rated at 15 amps for the 3-pin. The more pins there are, the less the rating. The cheapos are lucky to keep that rating with a few uses. The XLR series all have a basic flaw as to their "contact" method and the cheapos use inferior spring metal material to save costs and will wear out much quicker than the "high-end" ones.

All that aside, the BIGGEST (IF you're lucky) conductor you can get into a 3-pin is #12 solid. Much smaller for other pin configurations.

Another BIG drawback is that the maximum cable you can squeeze into them is about 0.350 inches in diameter. That's OK if you use lamp cord or small-guage SO cable.

All this might be OK for the low-power home use or road use, but the reputable professionals all will use Speakons for their road stuff.

Stick to using XLR's for signal levels….gold contacts of course.

>>> Phil

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 03-26-2003, 08:23 PM:

Again...electrically, the XLR connector is a 15-amp connector in a 3-pin which means...14awg or smaller. No big mystery there. The 4-pin and larger configuration are only rated to 10amps (16awg and smaller).

As to the max cable diameter...there are various boots to them, depending on manufacturer.

I'm not claiming that the XLR is the speaker connector of choice but that there is nothing completely wrong with it.

What I can't stand is those that use 1/4" phone plugs as speaker connectors (still don't in pro-audio...by the speaker manufacturers, no less). Unless you use the 1/4" plugs that have the wide insullation area, you will short out the amp when inserting or removing.

Speakons are good though even Neutrik should be shot for their 13awg max wire spec (though you can fit 12/4 SJ in there).

There needs to be a fat guage speaker connector invented and adopted.

Steve

Posted by Phil Hill (Member # 371) on 03-26-2003, 08:28 PM:

People use larger than 14 guage wire for longer runs even though the circuit may only be capable of supplying 15amps. Also, I've seen many 4-pins used for bi-amp'd stuff.

The 5-7 pin are rated less than 10 amps. (If I remember correctly, I think 7.5 amps)

The largest boot I've seen would only accept a cable diameter of 0.350 inches... There may be others, but I'm not aware of them.

It's not a good idea period! There are better solutions.

I agree about those lame 1/4-inch phone plugs... YUK!

>>> Phil

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 03-26-2003, 10:23 PM:

I couldn't find a UL listing for any xlr's for anything but class B and CSA doesn't list them for any current application

Posted by William Bunch (Member # 1040) on 03-27-2003, 01:49 AM:

Here's a question about speaker runs/connections:

If you have an amp with both Speakon and barrier strip connections, which would you use?

This is assuming a permanent system within a rack cabinet not subject to moving or tampering.

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 03-27-2003, 06:38 AM:

Speakon versus barrier strip...

If you want the end user to be able to quickly switch out the amp...speakon...if you want the more reliable permanent and easier to install connection, barrier strip (more reliable due to fewer connections).

Steve

Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 03-27-2003, 10:32 AM:

Just from a cost standpoint, SpeakOn connectors cost as much as $5 apeice. (Depending on the type and number of connections inside.)
I imagine you can get barrier strips for less than $1 apeice.

The only reason you would want to spend that kind of extra money is if you wanted to be able to move the speakers. Otherwise I would buy barrier strips. It would be money wasted.