Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: DTS XD10 info

This is topic DTS XD10 info in forum Film Handlers' Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.

To visit this topic, use this URL:
https://ft-forum.com/ft/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=004706

Posted by Karen Hultgren (Member # 395) on 03-25-2003, 01:27 PM:

Here is some data on the new XD10 player:

"The DTS XD10 Media Player is a digital playback system used in cinemas that is designed to deliver 10 channels of superior quality digital audio and video for alternate media, and to provide cinema subtitling, closed captions, and narration. It is a dual system with reference to film sound in that the digital audio data is recorded on DVD/CD-ROM discs that are loaded onto a hard drive in the unit. Proprietary DTS timecode is used to synchronize the sound and picture and is printed onto the release print from the soundtrack negative.

DTS timecode assures not only accurate sound and picture synchronization, but is keyed with a unique serial number to assure films are run with the correct digital audio track. To further ensure fail-safe operation, the XD10 performs automatic error detection. If errors are detected, the XD10 automatically pulses the cinema processor to the proper analog sound format. The timecode is printed between the picture and optical sound track The optical sound track is used for backup and is still available for theaters not yet upgrade to DTS digital resulting in a single inventory of prints. When playing DTS formatted film in DTS digital, the XD10 automatically starts; stops, and tracks film breaks and changeovers.

The XD10 provides left, center, right, left-center, right-center, left-back surround, left surround, right-back surround, right surround, and subwoofer channels. The XD10 is capable of playing back DTS digital sound in 5.1, 6.0, 8-track, and 10-track. It must be connected to a cinema processor capable of managing the desired channel configuration.

The XD10 allows for storage of up to 30 complete film sound tracks loaded on its hard drive. Once the hard drive reaches capacity, obsolete titles are easily deleted allowing new titles to be downloaded. After the title information is downloaded, the projectionist may select what playback is desired.

Software updating the XD10 is easily done with a downloadable system disc. Hardware options are available to expand the XD10 functionality:
- the addition of video board for the Video Option
- the addition a second audio board to expand the number of audio channel outputs to 20
- the addition board for CSP (subtitles/captions) and Narration Options
- the addition of an AES/EBU digital output board.

DTS encoded material is available in two digital sound formats: Standard (APTX100) and Coherent Acoustics.
- Material recorded in standard digital audio at a 44.1K sample rate with APTX100 digital audio data compression (4:1) providing 8 audio channels plus 2 auxiliary channels.
- Material recorded with Coherent Acoustics encoding is scalable, and allows for lossless compression if desired, as well as 96/24. Coherent Acoustics provides for 10 audio channels, plus 2 auxiliary channels. The auxiliary channels will not be phase coherent with the main output channels. The audio used in conjunction with the video will be Coherent Acoustics PCM 48/24 and will be compatible to standard DVD recordings

The XD10’s internal hard drive is used as the film sound signal source and two DVD drives are used to download title/film digital sound information to the hard drive. When DTS cinema discs are placed in the DVD drives, the XD10 automatically downloads the first reel (in approximately 30 seconds). The balance of the reels are then downloaded.
The downloading process only needs to be performed once, from that point on, playback is automatic."

Let me know if you have any questions.

Karen at DTS
khultgren@dtsonline.com

Posted by Antonio Marcheselli (Member # 373) on 03-25-2003, 01:37 PM:

Thanks Karen for these information! It a wonderful player!! I've been told that the company where I'm working for is going to buy one (some?)! I hope to manage this new product soon!!

A question: to manage 8 channel must I have an SDDS processor? If I'm not wrong the only configuration to have DTS 8ch is XD-10 + SDDS 3000? And to have 10 channels?

DTS 8ch: does it means that all future SDDS 8ch will be also DTS 8ch? Will be 8ch movie available on DVD only?

Do you already have a logo for new DTS 8ch? [Wink]

Bye
Antonio

Posted by Jean-Michel Grin (Member # 1360) on 03-25-2003, 01:43 PM:

Hello Kareen;

This system should be really amazing !

Does DTS present this system on the next cinema Expo in Amsterdam ?

Thanks.

Posted by Daniel Burns (Member # 1549) on 03-25-2003, 02:40 PM:

Karen, as you know there is a growing demand for the rear caption, and my theatre is thinking of purchasing a new unit. It would be nice to be able to run the sound also. I am aware of the price of our current model the dts-css, but how much more would this unit cost, if you have this information?

Posted by Karen Hultgren (Member # 395) on 03-25-2003, 06:23 PM:

In order to use more than 6 channels, you will need to connect it to a cinema processor capable of handling those channels. I know that UltraStereo is coming out with one.

If your CP can only handle 6 channels, then the XD10 will "fold down" the unused channels to a 5.1 configuration. You can program it for whatever playback requirement you need.

Yes, we will show the unit at Cinema Expo in Amsterdam.

Daniel - I am getting pricing and will send you an email.

Karen at DTS
khultgren@dtsonline.com

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 03-25-2003, 06:50 PM:

Karen, any word on the first 8+ channel releases?

Will this offer true discrete EX? If so, how will that interface with processors?

I for one am dying to see this unit in action. We have been asking for a hard drive based system and more channels for some time now, and dts has now deliverd. [Smile]

Posted by John Hawkinson (Member # 1135) on 03-26-2003, 12:58 PM:

So, will prints be shipping with DVDs and CDs for the foreseeable future (4 discs)?

--jhawk

Posted by Kris Brunton (Member # 432) on 03-26-2003, 01:29 PM:

Does DTS have any plans to introduce a CP capable of handling more than 6 channels??

Posted by Karen Hultgren (Member # 395) on 03-26-2003, 01:36 PM:

We are working on a new encoder and will start releasing 8-track mixes this summer. Until then, we will be using CD-ROM discs for 5.1 and ES (matrix) mixes. When the 8-track mixes are available, they will most likely be sent out on DVDs as to avoid confusion with 5.1 or ES mixes that are playable only through 6-track cinema processors. Once the 8-track mixes are available, I'd expect to see ES discrete.

The XD10 can download and use both CD-ROM and DVD files. DVD discs are now being used for the DTS-CSS narration, subtitles, and caption tracks. Same is true for the XD10 which will also use DVDs to for video programs.

We are working on a new CP but it won't be available for a while.

Karen at DTS
khultgren@dtsonline.com

Posted by Michael Schaffer (Member # 1204) on 03-26-2003, 01:52 PM:

quote:
Once the 8-track mixes are available, I'd expect to see ES discrete.

So we will actually have 9 discrete channels then?

Has anyone experienced dts Neo:6 in action? How does it compare to ProLogic II?

Posted by Aaron Garman (Member # 1653) on 03-26-2003, 06:36 PM:

Hello all. If the new 8 channel mixes will be on DVD's, do these prints come only with the DVD's and no CD's? What about all of us who have DTS-6D's? I would assume that prints would come with both, but clarification would be nice.

AJG

Posted by Karen Hultgren (Member # 395) on 03-27-2003, 11:48 AM:

Aaron,

Eight track mixes cannot playback on the DTS-6 or DTS-6D so there would be no reason to send them to everyone. You would get a 6-track mix if available (which most likely will be available).

Karen at DTS
khultgren@dtsonline.com

Posted by Dustin Mitchell (Member # 372) on 03-27-2003, 11:30 PM:

Will the unit be able to play directly from the DVD drives in case of a hard drive failure?

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 03-28-2003, 12:41 AM:

I asked that at the dts booth and the reply was no. I don't really consider that much of a problem though, for just how often do hard drive fail? VERY rarely.

Posted by Nicholas Roznovsky (Member # 861) on 03-28-2003, 01:24 AM:

It only takes once... [Smile]

Of course, I guess there's always the optical track to use as a back-up.

Posted by Michael Schaffer (Member # 1204) on 03-28-2003, 03:44 AM:

I still don`t understand how 8 channels can have discrete EX or ES. Could somebody help me here?

Posted by Oliver Pasch (Member # 1335) on 03-28-2003, 09:30 AM:

...i thought the XD-10 will provide 10-channel-audio, that's

5 Front-Channels (like SDDS-8)
1 LFE
Surround left (wall)
Surround right (wall)
Surround left (back)
Surround right (back)

...makes 10 channels in total.

Posted by Karen Hultgren (Member # 395) on 03-28-2003, 11:46 AM:

<"will the XD10 play off it's DVD drives?">

No, like the DTS-CSS unit, it will play off the hard drive.

Karen at DTS
khultgren@dtsonline.com

Posted by John Hawkinson (Member # 1135) on 03-28-2003, 05:04 PM:

XD10 discs won't be shipping with prints? How is that going to be handled? It seems to me like a recipe for disaster, especially for people who do short-run engagements (sneak or trade screenings, festivals, one-weekend campus theatre runs, etc.).

I guess this is the same distribution mechanism as DTS-CSS? How has that been working out? I guess if DTS can overnight the discs it's not such a big deal.

--jhawk

Posted by Antonio Marcheselli (Member # 373) on 03-28-2003, 05:35 PM:

John

If I correctly understand XD-10 disks will be shipped as actual DTS disks. The difference is that you just need to have the disks in the player once, then the player will read the data from its internal hard disk!

Karen,
Why didn't you put a two disk RAID 0 disk drive configuration in the XD-10? [Smile]

Bye
Antonio

Posted by Daryl C. W. O'Shea (Member # 1303) on 03-28-2003, 05:40 PM:

quote:
Why didn't you put a two disk RAID 0 disk drive configuration in the XD-10?

Because then it would be the RAID card that would fail.

The real question is why they just didn't use a terabyte of EEPROM in leu of a physical disk drive. [Big Grin]

Posted by Antonio Marcheselli (Member # 373) on 03-28-2003, 05:46 PM:

Yes, less stuff there is and more reliable is the device, I agree!

Bye
A

Posted by Michael Schaffer (Member # 1204) on 03-28-2003, 05:52 PM:

quote:
5 Front-Channels (like SDDS-8)
1 LFE
Surround left (wall)
Surround right (wall)
Surround left (back)
Surround right (back)

...makes 10 channels in total.

As Oliver has pointed out, we would need all these channels to have the full config including discrete ES.
However, the leaflet says explicitly that the unit only outputs up to 8 channels, the standard 6 plus L-C and R-C. Which in itself is understandable, since the unit is not a full processor. In order to integrate it into an installation, the main processor would have to be able to route through 4 surround channels. Which no unit on the market can.
What remains as a solution is to have the back surround matrixed as before. I do not understand how then is this unit supposed to have discrete ES?

Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 03-28-2003, 06:06 PM:

The only thing setting apart DTS from DTS-ES Discrete is a third surround channel for the back wall independent of the RS and LS channels. The XD-10 processor, when expanded to the 10 channel format, would accomodate a ES-Discrete style mixdown --except in this case you would have two back wall surrounds instead of just one.

In the 8-channel setup, it seems to me the channel configuration is pretty much the same as SDDS-8.

If DTS and others are working on new cinema processors to accomodate this format (as well as any others on the horizon) I hope they make the processor capable of handling 12 channels of audio. That would take into account all the 8, 9, 10 and 10.2 concepts floating around out there.

Posted by Michael Schaffer (Member # 1204) on 03-28-2003, 06:13 PM:

Bobby, you need two back surrounds anyway for compatibility with 2-channel surround soundtracks. It is not like a home system.
For 2-channel surround, two groups LSr+LBSr, and RBSr+RSr.
For 3-channel surround, three groups LSur, LBSr+RBSr, and RSr.

Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 03-29-2003, 04:34 PM:

Most home DD-EX/DTS-ES setups utilize two back wall surround speakers. Those two speakers are just playing the same surround channel summed across both speakers.

In all theatrical DD-EX and DTS-ES setups, even if you have the back wall wired into two groups of speakers for backward compatibility with conventional 5.1 you're still dealing with one center surround channel summed across those speakers instead of two.

With the new DTS-XD10 system you have the potential for two fully discrete back wall surround channels, for a total of four discrete surround channels. That's better than the three channel surround setup for Home DTS-ES 6.1 Discrete. And such a setup could accomodate a DTS-ES 6.1 Discrete soundtrack by summing that center surround from the 6.1 track onto the two back wall surrounds of the XD-10 format. It is very similar to the 4.1 mono surround DVDs we see where the mono surround is summed across RS and LS channels.

Posted by Don Sneed (Member # 955) on 03-30-2003, 02:27 AM:

I had a question, first the XD10 will be a great improvement & a lot of less headaches over the DTS-6D plus a few more features...now the question...Any plans to: DTS-XD10AD ?? I install about 200 DTS-6AD a year, a DTS-XD10AD would be a great thing....And Karen...PLEASE,PLEASE do something with that crappy monitor in the 6AD...& don't tell me it is to just let you know you have sound...Surely a larger speaker can be installed, you would have a great system for an "all on one system" but that crappy speaker ruins it !! Of course one could buy a add on speaker, but that is another cost, & defeat having "all in one system"...Please do something about the 6AD monitor speaker...I would like to know about the future of the 6AD maybe going to the direction of the XD10....Thanks Karen

Posted by Karen Hultgren (Member # 395) on 03-31-2003, 12:31 PM:

There won't be any "special" discs unitl this summer or so amd all details will be worked out then.

About the 6AD monitor speaker - that's the best speaker available for that small space. You can always connect a large self-powered speaker to the back of the unit's MONITOR connector.

Karen at DTS
khultgren@dtsonline.com

[ 04-01-2003, 06:55 PM: Message edited by: Karen Hultgren ]