Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Component Engineering TA-10 Help Needed

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Posted by Bill Hallsworth (Member # 1240) on 03-31-2003, 11:36 AM:

I'm having a problem with one of our TA-10's. For whatever reason, it will not read the intermission cue, lens change cues, and will not change the sound format at show start/end. The cue detector (FM-35) is working fine, and the house light cues seem to be working, also.

Here's a description of a typical show: press START button, projector starts. However, sound format remains on non-sync, instead of switching to SR or SRD. When the lens change cue goes through, the detector picks it up, but the lens does not change. When the intermission cue runs through, it is read by the cue detector, but the projector doesn't stop until film run-out, when it beeps. The sound remains on SR, instead of switching to non-sync like it should.

We are running Simplex projectors/sound heads, Strong X-90 console and platters, Component Engineering TA-10 automation with FM-35 cue detector, and Dolby CP-65.

Any suggestions on what could be wrong?

Bill

PS: this is house #13 that is acting up. Could that be the problem?

Posted by Jack Ondracek (Member # 1466) on 03-31-2003, 08:01 PM:

Can you touch on how you determined the FM35 is OK? That would certainly be the first place to check, especially considering it has 3 discrete cues that the TA10 uses to interpret 7 functions. Losing one of those cues from the FM35 could have the effect you describe... but so could a defect in the decoding circuitry. If you're sure the TA10 is getting good contact closures from all 3 cues , separate and combined at the end of the FM35 cable, then you probably have a chip out in the TA10.

Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 03-31-2003, 08:29 PM:

One thing to be careful of when you use multiple cues. The combinations must be applied very carefully and accurately.

If not, what is thought is a correct cue by a human could be ignored by the automation, or as seen as something else. I have seen this happen.....

I would recommend a closer look, and check the LED read-outs on the FM-35 itself to see if what you got is supposed to be what you wanted. If it is, there could be a problem with the micro-relays in the cue detector block, the cable, or maybe the automation itself. It sounds like you might have to do a little more troubleshooting to isolate where the problem lies.

Posted by Rick Long Jr (Member # 541) on 03-31-2003, 08:36 PM:

Do you see the LED's light up on the FM-35 when a cue goes by? It could be something as simple as the plug on the back not being seated all the way.(Could have been knocked while threading or cleaning).It could be that one of the three sensors has gone bad. Try triggering each of them individually with a small metallic object.If one is bad, it could explain why some functions work and some don't. if you see the LED's light up, try listening to see if the automation's relays are firing. TA-10's are usually located on a panel behind the back door in X-90 consoles. The FM-35 connects to the orange vertical terminal strip in the upper left area of the mainboard. The board is marked to show what wire colour goes where from the FM-35. Check for a loose connection there(with the power off of course).

Posted by Ken Layton (Member # 133) on 04-01-2003, 12:00 AM:

How old is the FM-35? Maybe it doesn't have the latest upgrades. Check the cable where it plugs into the FM-35 as sometimes the wires come loose in the terminals.

Your TA-10 isn't set to interlock by mistake is it?

Posted by Bill Hallsworth (Member # 1240) on 04-01-2003, 09:21 AM:

I checked the FM35 by running all 7 cues through it, and the correct LEDs lit up when each cue passed through. I also checked the cable where it plugs into the sensor and the automation board. I haven't found any loose wires or corroded connections or anything.

I'm more inclined to think that there is a bad chip or relay, since the sound format doesn't change from non-sync when you start the show. But then again, what do I know?

Bill

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 04-01-2003, 10:08 AM:

I would try swaping the micro controler board between this unit and another and see if the problem moves with the board

Posted by Bill Hallsworth (Member # 1240) on 04-01-2003, 11:10 AM:

Hey, thanks Gordon. I'll give that a try and see what happens.

Bill

Posted by Jack Ondracek (Member # 1466) on 04-01-2003, 02:09 PM:

If swapping that board doesn't work, check the connector plug at the FM35 itself. Those wires can work loose, even though they look ok. That's why I suggested you check the cues at the other end, preferably with a meter... if you have one handy. We had something similar happen... a real hair puller that turned out to be nothing more than a loose wire on that plug.

Posted by Don Olson (Member # 90) on 04-02-2003, 12:15 PM:

Bill

The fact that both Events and Cues are not working is telling. First, lets try some things that will ( hopefully )separate the 2 issues.

Before you start the show……Strike the Xenon lamp. Wait a couple seconds and then hit start. Did the second Event ( SR or SRD ) happen?

Next, operate the cues manually with Cue Tape on a small piece of film. Listen for the relays clicking in the TA-10. The FM-35 also has relays so you need to be sure the clicks are coming from the TA-10 mainboard. Do all 7 cues make a relay click?

What we are looking for here is evidence that the Xenon strike is getting into the MCU board and has also damaged the chipset that decodes the cues. This would be the obvious cause of both Events and Cues not functioning properly. So why don’t you try both of these things and call or email me with the results. We can work from there.

Don Olson
Component Engineering

dolson@componentengineering.com
206 284-9171

Posted by Peter Kerchinsky (Member # 1098) on 04-03-2003, 04:08 AM:

I fiquered it wouldn't take too long for Oly to respond to this problem.
Hi Don......good to hear from you again.