This is topic DTS - 6D has NO RAM in forum Film Handlers' Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.


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Posted by Anthony Johnson (Member # 1459) on 04-03-2003, 06:14 PM:
 
The other day I was in the chat room here on Film-Tech. While in the chatroom someone asked the question, "How much RAM (Random Access Memory) does the DTS-6D have?". Well, at the time, I responded that it didn't have any. Having a manual for the DTS unit in front of me, & not finding any mention of RAM in the manual, is how I based my answer to the question. However, others in the chatroom strongly disagreed. Being that I did not have an actual DTS-6D unit in front of me that I could look inside of, I had to say that I could have possibly been incorrect. However, I then went to the DTS website & emailed one of the Tech-support people. Here is the response I later received via email: Greetings Kristin,

I am on FilmTech all the time and did not see your post. The DTS players do not use RAM for audio storage. We use timecode to tell the player what and when to play off the discs (where the DTS digital track is stored).

Karen Hultgren
DTS Customer Service Technical Specialist
Tel: (818) 706-3525 or (800) 959-4109
Fax: (818) 879-2746
www.dtsonline.com


-----Original Message-----
From: SeaJaye
Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2003 10:43 PM
To: Kristin Thomson
Subject: DTS - 6D

To Whomever This May Concern,





Does the DTS-6D have any ram? I was recently asked this question while chatting on FilmTech.Com. The theatre I work for uses these units, & I have an installation and operation manual. I have read the entire manual, & have found no reference to RAM. If indeed the DTS-6D does have RAM, how much does it have? In advance, I would like to thank you for any help you can offer.
_______________________________________________________________

Maybe, I'm wrong, but I sort of tend to believe the folks from DTS.

 

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Posted by Michael Schaffer (Member # 1204) on 04-03-2003, 06:27 PM:
 
Where then is the audio data stored while it is being processed? And where is the dts.exe loaded?
 

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Posted by Steve Kraus (Member # 476) on 04-03-2003, 06:33 PM:
 
Of course it has RAM. Kinda hard to have a functional PC without it.
 

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Posted by Michael Schaffer (Member # 1204) on 04-03-2003, 07:00 PM:
 
And why is an e-mail addressed to you with "Greetings, Kristin"? Is that your second name?
 

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Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 04-03-2003, 07:06 PM:
 
There is a difference between digital audio being stored somewhere, such as a hard drive or CD-ROM discs. Still, any PC (even a DTS machine) must have a certain amount of hardware RAM to operate.

I don't know how much RAM a DTS-6, 6D or 6AD player has installed, but it must have at least some to load DOS. There's probably not any more need to have 4MB of RAM, although I would bet newer DTS-6D machines would likely have 16MB or 32MB SIMM or DIMM modules since RAM is not sold in tiny amounts anymore.
 

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Posted by Manny Knowles (Member # 1171) on 04-03-2003, 07:42 PM:
 
I thought we could not quote email messages in forum posts.

You ought to go back and hit the EDIT button above your post and then paraphrase the contents of that email...especially since it does not appear to have been addressed to you.

I may be confusing this with a rule from another online community. If so then, by all means, disregard.
 

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Posted by Karen Hultgren (Member # 395) on 04-03-2003, 07:46 PM:
 
So, are you 'Kristin'?

There are memory chips inside the unit but I need more informatuon on what you are trying to do. The question sounded very fishy to me.

Karen at DTS
khultgren@dtsonline.com
 

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Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 04-03-2003, 08:12 PM:
 
If you insert a video card in one of the spare slots in the mommy board you can watch it boot up and it will tell you how much RAM is in the particuluar unit you have. I want to say it is usually in the range of 4 to 8 mb though. Runs DOS so it doesn't need very much and I doubt that it uses all it has....

There are other ROM's in it that contain the actual DTS operating programs and such. BTW: The Mommie Board has a special BIOS on it that is common only to DTS boards.
Mark @ CLACO
Mark
 

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Posted by Manny Knowles (Member # 1171) on 04-03-2003, 08:20 PM:
 
So is this a case of "more RAM will improve performance" ?

I'm curious whether this is just an academic question or if somebody actually feels the need to go adding RAM to their DTS unit. Is this for a special-purpose venue? If so, why didn't the producer(s) of the film work this out prior to making a movie that cannot play in the existing DTS machines?

For that matter, who produced the disc(s) for this multi-multi-multi channel, extra-extra super-deluxe special edition release that none of us seem to have booked?

I have to admit -- I'm curious.
 

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Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 04-03-2003, 09:27 PM:
 
I never saw any RAM chips on the MB DTS uses. Maybe it is in the special hardware DTS has inserted. I wonder if there might be a special BIOS chip that has all the crap needed to load dts.exe
 

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Posted by Daryl C. W. O'Shea (Member # 1303) on 04-03-2003, 11:39 PM:
 
Anthony, pursuant to the forum FAQ, you are not permitted to post private emails on the forums without the other person's permission. Since Karen has posted in this thread and I haven't heard any objection from her I'll assume for now that you do in fact have her permission to post it. If you do not have her permission, I ask that you remove the posted email.

In any case, please read the forum FAQ again before posting.

Thank you.
 

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Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 04-03-2003, 11:52 PM:
 
"So is this a case of "more RAM will improve performance" ?"

No, it doesn't take much computing power for a DTS processor to operate. More ram doesn't better anything according to DTS, nor is more RAM required for conversion to special venue. I think the amount of RAM on the MB is pretty much the minimum amount needed for the MB to function.
_________________________________________________________________

"I never saw any RAM chips on the MB DTS uses. Maybe it is in the special hardware DTS has inserted."

There are plug in strips of RAM(simms, dimms, what ever) like in any other computer, but remember these are primarily 386, and 486 based mommyboards.

"I wonder if there might be a special BIOS chip that has all the crap needed to load dts.exe"

I don't think the DTS.exe is in the bios. I believe its on a seperate ROM chip on one of the other boards, possibly on the CD ROM itself..... As I mentioned you can plug in a video card to the mommie board and watch the DTS bios do its special thing during boot up. It starts out smilar to a regular bios but then does other things that are DTS specific that a regular bios doesn't do.

Mark @ CLACO
 

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Posted by Manny Knowles (Member # 1171) on 04-04-2003, 12:30 AM:
 
Okay, then -- can someone fill me in on why this is an issue?

I don't get it -- If the DTS system is just fine the way it is, then why is someone trying to add more RAM?

It seems a pressing issue, too. This is the very first post for the topic starter after six whole months of membership.
 

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Posted by Daryl C. W. O'Shea (Member # 1303) on 04-04-2003, 12:38 AM:
 
There would be ZERO benefit in adding additional RAM to a DTS unit's motherboard. Once the machine is booted the motherboard doesn't do much other than providing a data bus and power to components.
 

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Posted by Steve Kraus (Member # 476) on 04-04-2003, 07:30 AM:
 
MG:
I don't think the DTS.exe is in the bios. I believe its on a seperate ROM chip on one of the other boards, possibly on the CD ROM itself..

Yes, it's on every DTS CD ROM.

MK:
I don't get it -- If the DTS system is just fine the way it is, then why is someone trying to add more RAM?

Who said they wanted to add more RAM?

DCWO:
Once the machine is booted the motherboard doesn't do much other than providing a data bus and power to components.

Between managing time code, ID numbers, file management etc., along with delivering blocks of compressed audio data to decoding hardware I'd say it keeps busy. It's not computing intensive but it's not like it just sits there.
 

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Posted by Michael Schaffer (Member # 1204) on 04-04-2003, 07:39 AM:
 
The manual says the dts-6D has a ROM chip which contains the dts.exe. It is also on every dts disc. I have never looked at the versions of those files, but I would assume that the ROM-DOS of the machine checks the dts.exe and if it`s a newer version loads it from the CD. dts also changed the location of the chip that contains the file at some time in the past.
 

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Posted by Daryl C. W. O'Shea (Member # 1303) on 04-04-2003, 07:46 AM:
 
Steve wrote:

quote:

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Between managing time code, ID numbers, file management etc., along with delivering blocks of compressed audio data to decoding hardware I'd say it keeps busy. It's not computing intensive but it's not like it just sits there.

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The motherboard does not manage timecode, the 'DTS hardware' does. Nor does it handle file management.

It does, like you said, provide a means for data trasnfer... just like when I said, "...do much other than providing a data bus".

In any case, my point is there is absolutely no advantage to adding addition RAM to your DTS player.
 

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Posted by Antonio Marcheselli (Member # 373) on 04-04-2003, 02:24 PM:
 
My old DTS6 had some RAM SIMMs inside.

Bye
Antonio
 

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Posted by Karen Hultgren (Member # 395) on 04-04-2003, 02:37 PM:
 
I would appreciate being asked in advance for permission before a private email between myself and another party was posted.

Karen at DTS
khultgren@dtsonline.com
 

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Posted by Manny Knowles (Member # 1171) on 04-04-2003, 03:34 PM:
 
Steve --

Who says they don't want to add more RAM? When people start asking questions like "is there RAM?" or "how much RAM?" it generally progresses towards "what's the max. RAM?" and so I made an assumption. If my assumption is wrong then it should be up to the party asking the questions to set me straight. I just want to understand where this is all coming from and where it's going.

I guess I'm just curious whether this is really a pursuit of knowledge (to be applied) or just a case of trivia or settling a bet.

I'm looking for relevance and not finding any. Help me understand!

--Manny.
 

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Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 04-04-2003, 05:18 PM:
 
Since it is irrelevant "Don't worry Be Happy"
 

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Posted by Anthony Johnson (Member # 1459) on 04-04-2003, 05:38 PM:
 
Good question Manny,

When I first saw the question posed by someone else in the chat room, I began to wonder about the DTS RAM question myself. Furthermore, as with just about every other technical projection oriented questions I have, I know that with the high level of product knowledge generally coming from FilmTech's members, a dependable answer to the question would soon turn up. Personally, I did not have any interest at all in the subject before seeing the question in the chatroom. Also, I've been visiting this site for a little while longer than 7 months. I posted the question in order to try & get as much information as possible. I have never posted before mainly because all of the questions I've had before are either already answered somewhere here on FilmTech, or I learn from studying & asking people I know.
All apoligies to K. Hultgren. Daryl was correct, I had not read the Forum FAQ. I have now though.
To everyone who has posted, thanks for the information you've contributed. Keep it coming.
 

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Posted by Manny Knowles (Member # 1171) on 04-04-2003, 05:57 PM:
 
Oh Gordon -- If only it were that simple!
 

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Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 04-04-2003, 08:35 PM:
 
1. The guy asked if the DTS had "any" RAM, but Karen responded that it didn't use RAM for "audio storage." She never said that it didn't have ANY RAM. So she didn't quite answer his question, but maybe the info is proprietary.

2. The reason Karen didn't see his post is, he never asked the question in a post, but in the chat room.

3. The reason for the "Kristin" business, I'd bet money, is that he used "Kristin's" e-mail account to write to Karen, and didn't sign his own name at the end of it; therefore, Karen replied to "Kristin." (Notice his name is not signed at the end of his e-mail as copied above.)

4. There is no reason for the DTS manual to refer to RAM in the manual. Modern cars have computers on board, yet there is no mention of how much RAM they have in the instruction manual.
 

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Posted by David Stambaugh (Member # 1102) on 04-04-2003, 10:10 PM:
 
Hmm. So, how much RAM *does* a typical car have in it? Sorry Mike, you raised the issue. Now I want to know.

Never mind.
 

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Posted by Manny Knowles (Member # 1171) on 04-05-2003, 02:53 AM:
 
Mike --

I looked again at that email and the original messae was not written FROM "Kristen" but, rather, it was written TO "Kristen."

Strangely, Karen's response is also TO "Kristen."

What's going on???

--Manny.
 

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Posted by Michael Schaffer (Member # 1204) on 04-05-2003, 03:47 AM:
 
If I upgrade my car with more RAM, will it go faster? How many km/h speed increase can I expect from 256MB?
 

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Posted by Fabrice Dubourg (Member # 1635) on 04-05-2003, 04:49 AM:
 
there is memory in all dts player as they use the DMA controller!
all the data coming from cd-rom by the scsi board go to memory and then in aptx dsp by using the dma controller who is driven by th CPU.
in dts-6 unit ,i think its something like 4Mo, but i'm not sure
 

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Posted by Steve Kraus (Member # 476) on 04-05-2003, 10:16 AM:
 
Daryl:

Are you saying that when there is a sudden jump in timecode because of a splice and a crossfade must be performed, OR when a 2nd timecode stream comes in and a changeover from reel to reel must be done OR when the timecode ID does not match the CD's ID OR various other sorts of comparisons and decisions must be made...

...that the decision making is NOT being done by the dts.exe software?
 

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Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 04-05-2003, 02:47 PM:
 
Michael,
No more RAM shuold be added to any German car...they already go way, way too fast with the amount of RAM they contain !
Mark
 

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Posted by Daryl C. W. O'Shea (Member # 1303) on 04-05-2003, 11:57 PM:
 
Steve, I don't recall ever saying anything about the dts.exe executable, but I guess it was brought into this when I said the motherboard doesn't really do anything. Now, since I don't have a copy of the dts.exe executable source code, I can only hypothesis as to what it is and is not doing. My educated guess would be this:

The dts.exe executable performs the function of a supervisor. It initializes the hardware and periodically checks to make sure everything is running alright. i.e., the D422, D536 and AVA-1501A boards are all still responding (haven't locked up).

Given that the original units could play any audio with any title, the executable may decide whether or not the timecode matches the audio. This could also be handled by the since revised D442 (Timecode) board.

Crossfades are handled by the D536 (Playback) board, under the direction of the D442 (Timecode) board. The playback board also handles 'automation connector' processes/functions. Specifically, this would allow for the fastest possible revisions to analog in the event that the processor can no longer provide audio (loss of timecode, loss of audio data, failed component, etc.).

I would also expect that the dts.exe executable would have the capability of accessing enough of the 'automation connector' to initiate a reversion (in case the D422 board fails). Although I expect it, from past experience, I don't think this is actually the case.

Data is retrieved from the CD-ROM discs via the Adaptec AVA-1501A SCSI card. The SCSI card is initialized at boot time by the dts.exe executable. In theory there is no reason why the Timecode board could not directly request the appropriate data from the discs (via the SCSI card) without the intervention or 'consultation' of the dts.exe executable. It is however likely that the executable is involved in a 'messenger-type' fashion as this would allow for future flexibility concerning data structures.

Things that the dts.exe executable could do while initializing the hardware:

• Set things like crossfade times, time to continue without timecode before reversion, automation signalling times -- although these may be permanently set by hardware structure.
• Try to detect whether it (the executable) is being executed by a DTS player and not some other computer.
• Run a quick hardware diagnostics to make sure everything is in good shape.
• Count to 1000 just for fun.

• Correct software bugs that caused bad things to happen.
• Possibly implement workarounds for known hardware issues.
• Reprogram programmable parts of the hardware to correct known hardware issues.
• Allow for a different data structure on the DTS discs.
• Update the hardware's audio codec.
• Do nothing but make it look like DTS is continuously improving their product. (I'm sure this isn't true. )