Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Is everything in DTS-ES now?

This is topic Is everything in DTS-ES now? in forum Film Handlers' Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.

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Posted by John Wilson (Member # 269) on 04-17-2003, 02:06 AM:

Lately, pretty much every disc I'm getting from DTS has the five-digit ES code on it. This makes a pretty big change from recent times when you could pretty much count the recent releases in ES/EX on two hands...

Has the coding system changed or is ES being used a helluva lot more nowadays...eben on things you'd not expect like Anger Management and Bringing Down The House. Interestingly, these films generally do not auto EX on the CP650 so this also leads me to ask the above question.

Thanks and it's nice to see you guys again.

John

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 04-17-2003, 04:15 AM:

Do they auto-ES on a DTS-ES unit?

Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 04-17-2003, 06:22 PM:

Something must be amiss with those 5-digit serial numbers.

Normally, most theatrial releases supporting DTS-ES also support Dolby Digital Surround EX as well. According to Dolby's website, the Lord of the Rings films and Matrix films are the only ones showing DD-EX.

Another interesting note is their "previously released DD-EX films" list. They have separate columns for theatrical release and DVD. It seems like a lot of movies are getting DD-EX only on the home theater end.
http://www.dolby.com/movies/films_previous.html

Posted by Karen Hultgren (Member # 395) on 04-17-2003, 06:29 PM:

There is an "auto ES" on the DTS-ES unit. All they have to do is program it for that function.

Karen at DTS
khultgren@dtsonline.com

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 04-18-2003, 01:35 AM:

Yeah I like the DTS-ES unit. I got two of them when Episode 1 came out. I guess my post was a bit ambiguous, but the question was actually directed towards John. I was asking if the DTS discs engage the auto-ES feature. If they did, then I would certainly assume that the movie is in ES.

Posted by John Wilson (Member # 269) on 04-19-2003, 03:31 AM:

Then I shall direct my answer to you Joe. [Smile]

I don't have an ES unit.

Damn...I have everything else [Wink]

Add to that list How To Lose A Guy In Ten Days...now why would THIS be in ES? I've always thought if it was in ES then it is in EX. Is that not a fact?

Dolby should really start making the labs or whomever start writing EX on the leaders. Take the guesswork out of it for me.

Posted by Per Hauberg (Member # 529) on 04-19-2003, 03:59 AM:

Properly marked prints, mainly regarding soundformat, but in this area even picture format, seems to be a place in Siberia (no offence meant against Siberian members !).
When marked EX, I believe, Karen has explained, You can be sure, the film is also ES, but this as well as picture format ought to be on leaders as well as film cans to secure correct presentation, including shows, where You receive the print so late, that You have no chance to run a test.
Trouble is, that distributors doesn't even know, what it is all about: Wheather it is lack of knowledge or plain givin' up, 'cause they know that half the theaters have 2 lenses only and don't care, I don't know, but those damned dogme-films (danish invention, [Frown]

) are delivered here in cans, marked WideScreen 1:37 : 1, and a big house as UIP DK simply denies to distinct 1:66 from 1:85 when labelling - all prints just marked "WS" !!
Posters - not only local versions, but often international, too, comes with a logo, just saying "Dolby" and a double d and nothing more, even if film has every possible soundtrack on it.
Then why spend a lot of time and money to make a top quality soundtrack, if it is no even used for marketing the film ??
I think sloppy is the word...

Per

Posted by John Wilson (Member # 269) on 04-20-2003, 04:28 AM:

So, if it's marked EX and it is then to be deemed automatically ES, does this not work the other way also? ES is automatically EX?

Posted by Michael Schaffer (Member # 1204) on 04-20-2003, 11:53 AM:

Yes.

Posted by Karen Hultgren (Member # 395) on 04-21-2003, 11:53 AM:

If a film is labeled "EX" it is Dolby extended surround. If it is "ES", it is DTS. Usually, if a film is released in EX it will also be in ES.

Karen at DTS
khultgren@dtsonline.eocm

Posted by Antonio Marcheselli (Member # 373) on 04-21-2003, 04:55 PM:

Usually? [Confused]

Isn't it like Pro logic? Stereo film IS pro logic (if pro logic was applied to the original track).

Bye
Antonio

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 04-22-2003, 05:48 AM:

Antonio, You are right.
Mark

Posted by John Wilson (Member # 269) on 04-27-2003, 01:10 AM:

Thanks to everyone for their responses. Michael Shaeffer you seem to have a definate response which logically, would work with me. However, are you saying this with definate knowledge or is that your assumption? Please confirm.

Honestly though...there's no other forum where so many film makers and equipment makers and film handlers get together in the whole world...if I can't get my answer here, what hope does the industry have of having their films played in the correct format? AND that being the case, if they care so little for the exhibitor as to not bother labelling print leaders with ACCURATE information, then why bother with EX in the first place?

It used to be so simple...(sigh)

Posted by Antonio Marcheselli (Member # 373) on 04-27-2003, 07:10 AM:

IN your knowledge, is it possibile to have a source in Pro Logic and convert it in normal stereo? It is nonsense, I know, but here in Italy the first "Lord of the Ring" DVD cames out with English EX and Italian 5.1. There are two possibilities
1. The distributor knows that many people know nothing on EX and says that the first edition doesn't have EX code so that they can sell the second edition... [Big Grin]

2. For budget reason (or others) they cannot afford EX license (I'm guessing) and there is a way to remove the EX/ES code from the recording...

Perhaps can be the same in the cinema?

A producer cannot afford EX/ES and print their movies with WX but with no ES... Karen, is there a difference in price if the soundtrack is recorder ES/EX? I'm not talking about mixing, just the money that producers has to pay to DTS/Dolby for the use of the technology.

Bye
Antonio

Posted by Michael Brown (Member # 890) on 04-27-2003, 08:01 AM:

WX? [Confused]

Posted by John Hawkinson (Member # 1135) on 04-27-2003, 03:15 PM:

Can we keep the DVD discussion in the Afterlife? I don't think the relationship between ES/EX in DVDs versus film prints is as strong as you think...

--jhawk

Posted by Michael Schaffer (Member # 1204) on 04-27-2003, 04:03 PM:

quote:
Michael Shaeffer you seem to have a definate response which logically, would work with me. However, are you saying this with definate knowledge or is that your assumption?

Well, since both Dolby and dts in the cinema only carry 6 channels, the back surround channel of an ES/EX has to be matrixed into left and right surround before the digital encoding process. Since usually both formats (and SDDS) are encoded from the same 6 channel master (not necessarily the same physical copy, but the same mix), they both carry exactly the same surround channels and therefore are replayable with any decoding unit, be it SA10, the dts or the Panalogic decoder. That also means any ES/EX film can also be played back in SDDS and you can still use your decoder with the same effect as if you were playing from the Dolby or dts track.

Theoretically, they could produce completely different surround mixes for the respective formats and then encode all three digital tracks from different masters, but why should they? I do not know if EX or ES generates additional license fees for the encoding.

Posted by Antonio Marcheselli (Member # 373) on 04-27-2003, 09:27 PM:

John

I assume that, otherwise I'd have post the message on the afterlife...

EX/ES are matrixed, so I believe there is no differences between DVD and movie. But I can be wrong!

Bye
A