Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: nelp needed rebuilding a Spectra 90

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Posted by Mat Fleming (Member # 1685) on 04-17-2003, 07:08 AM:

I help run a 16mm only (voluntary)theatre.
I'm trying to get us up to lofty 35mm hights.
WE've picked up some old Spectre90s, (the pedestal ones)
I know they've not got the best rep.
We want to strip out the automation bits and may or may
not fit a new rectifier. Does a rectifier need to be
specific to the Bulbs wattage? our screens only 8" tall
so we'll be downsizing the bulb which has been in it.
Anyone got a manual for this Projector or the very most basic
circuit diagram for igniting a bulb? or hints at finding
new apeture plates?

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 04-17-2003, 09:34 AM:

Per the FAQ: "no teaser subject titles". You need to edit the title to something more descriptive or we will close this discussion.

Posted by Stephen Furley (Member # 1277) on 04-17-2003, 12:53 PM:

Mat wrote:

quote:

our screens only 8" tall

Eight inches tall? What are you using, a sheet of A4 paper? [Smile]

Sorry, I can't help you with those machines.

Posted by Dave Macaulay (Member # 813) on 04-17-2003, 03:56 PM:

"WE've picked up some old Spectre90s, (the pedestal ones)"

Never heard of this... is it a common make?

"We want to strip out the automation bits and may or may
not fit a new rectifier. Does a rectifier need to be specific to the Bulbs wattage? our screens only 8" tall so we'll be downsizing the bulb which has been in it."

I imagine you mean 8 feet. The rectifier has to run a lamp within its output range. Usually trying to turn one down too far results in poor/no lamp ignition, as the rectifier won't supply enough open circuit voltage or starting current.

"Anyone got a manual for this Projector or the very most basic
circuit diagram for igniting a bulb? or hints at finding
new apeture plates?"

Igniting a xenon bulb requires a high voltage igniter, this puts ~40KV across the bulb electrodes to start the arc going. Most igniters use a line powered Tesla coil circuit that can be fired via a manual button or an automatic system that senses the higher open circuit lamp voltage when the rectifier is on but the lamp is off.
The circuitry is quite simple in concept, but most lamphouses have fans and safety interlocks that make it look complex. Download any Strong lamphouse manual - ie the Super Lume-X - there's a circuit diagram that is pretty generic.

Be very careful when working with xenon lamps. The ignitor makes quite deadly voltages, and the open circuit DC from the rectifier is fatally dangerous as well. Xenon lamps themselves are pressurized to the point of being explosive and you should wear proper protective gear if you are opening a xenon lamphouse or handling a lamp.

Posted by Richard Fowler (Member # 893) on 04-17-2003, 04:24 PM:

Spectra series may be the units imported from China which could be the Shanghai Harvest portable units or the Dong Feng / Tiajin cinema projector....a photograph would nail it.
Richard Fowler
Kinoton America Inc.....the nice projector people [Wink]

Posted by Jonathan Worthing (Member # 803) on 04-17-2003, 05:11 PM:

How big is your sledge hammer. the first thing you need to do is put it through the power supply. A Widow Maker. [evil]

I serviced a pair back in the dark ages, I thought it was the kind of thing you would see in some secondary school used for keeping the kids amused, Last day of term.

If I have any notes on it I will let you know..

Posted by Pete Naples (Member # 761) on 04-17-2003, 05:34 PM:

I think we've got some bits and pieces for these things, we bought most of the Spectra spares when the then UK agent shut up shop (CSS I think they were called).

Richard, they sometimes go by the name of 'Fun Dun' (spelling?) here, but I think they are the same machine you're talking about.

The electrics/electronics are crap, Robins ran some of these things, nearest to me were in residence at Durham, back in teh days when Robins serviced their equipment we were never done with repairing the rectifier. The best thing you could do would be to throw away the on board and hook up a T&R or similar PSU for the bulb. If the mechanicals are in halfway decent order the will give a respectable performance. Edinburgh Film Guild has a pair which have been running for years and years wth little fuss (Admittedly only a couple of times a month)

Posted by Dick Vaughan (Member # 540) on 04-17-2003, 06:30 PM:

Hope I am not pi**ing on your chips but do you have a separate projection room ie: not projecting from inside the auditorium.

AFAIK you can, under whatever version of the Cinematograph Act your Fire Officer/Licensing Authority wants to go, by project 16mm from the back row (or anywhere else) in the cinema . Move up to 35mm and, because many of these people don't realise that nitrate isn't used very much nowadays you need a separate projection room. [Roll Eyes]

They may even insist on fire shutters so the dangerous film doesn't wipe out the audience [Eek!]

Posted by Kevin Baglow (Member # 721) on 04-17-2003, 09:43 PM:

SPECTRA 90 must be an English modified JGS from Shanghai. Lots of JGS parts have been sent to a few film societys in England who are useing them. Parts are cheep and plentyfull -a new inermittent unit is only a couple of hundred dollars. They are still selling well to smaller country towns for community cinemas and travelling cinemas in Australia. There are even small multiplexes useing them for 8 sessions a day. A mate built an automation unit to strike an cut the Xenon on a foil cue- at the start and end of the show. The unit also does an automatic change over between 2 of these projectors, with 2000ft reels (useing foil cues)

Posted by Ken Layton (Member # 133) on 04-17-2003, 10:30 PM:

I'd like to see a good, clear picture of this Spectra 90 machine.

Posted by Kevin Baglow (Member # 721) on 04-18-2003, 03:30 AM:

There a pic of JGS on:
www.filmtheatres.com
There in the Mt Isa installation. The two projectors together mounted off the wall- I will ad some clearer pictures soon.

Posted by Mat Fleming (Member # 1685) on 04-18-2003, 07:36 AM:

Thanks for the great responses [thumbsup]

oops, yes, I was talking feet not inches and we do have a proper booth - the photo's from somewhere else.
The projectors in question come out of the Robins Durham
saddly departed (no graemlin with a tear saddly) and they are
Chinese imports (Kaylee copies I've been told)
They are big pedestal things with horrible looking rectifiers in the base and I'm off home now to get a photograph.

..A few minutes later..

Here it is. Not as clear as I remember it.
left to right-
pedestal, lamphouses, idiot, mech heads, rectifier

What do y'all think?

Posted by Richard Fowler (Member # 893) on 04-18-2003, 08:37 AM:

Dong Feng / Tiajin unit........
Richard Fowler
Kinoton America Inc.

Posted by Mat Fleming (Member # 1685) on 04-18-2003, 08:57 AM:

What does that mean for a first timer like me?
Are there similar models with different names?

Posted by Kevin Baglow (Member # 721) on 04-18-2003, 06:35 PM:

Oh...DONG FENG not JGS. I'm useing three of them in my 3plex. They have the 3kw rectifiers and lamps. I'm just getting a replacement main transformer in one of the rectifiers. Parts are still cheep and readyly available. Pics on:
www.filmtheatres.com

Posted by Ben Wales (Member # 92) on 04-19-2003, 04:25 PM:

I might (some where) have a sales book on these from the UK sales Agent for these and will post a picture of one for all to see.

I expect there is a spares issue on these projectors, I know of some of the portable (Spectra 80) version that it could be converted to stereo and a Quarz lamps as the Switcher supply did have some problems on these and there are some nightmere stories on the projectors at work!.

Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 04-20-2003, 06:01 AM:

The spares issue struck me, as well. Pete - the machines Mat has came out of the Robins in Durham after it closed in January. A friend of mine who is the support officer for independent cinemas at the Newcastle office of the Film Council knew Mat was interested in upgrading to 35mm, was offered these projectors and asked me to have a look and see if they were any good.

I'd never seen these machines before: they looked pretty solidly built and appeared to have been quite well maintained. What I found interesting was that the cinema's owners had stripped out virtually everything except the mechanisms: platters, lenses, sound gear (apart from some crappy-looking mono 1970s power amps bolted to the wall of the projection box), the lot.

I'm guessing that they removed everything they thought they could use at another site, but left the Spectras because there is no longer anyone importing spares or providing service backup for them. The mechs had labels on them with the name of a company I didn't recognise (CSS sounds about right), and which I'm 99.9% sure doesn't exist any more.

That having been said, Mat does have three of the things, so he can use the best one and cannibalise the other two for spares. His projection box is nowhere near big enough for two machines running changeovers (unless he removes his existing 16mm projector), but one and a tower looked very feasible to me. There is already a three-phase supply into the box.

Posted by Pete Naples (Member # 761) on 04-20-2003, 08:53 AM:

It's come back to me. C.S.D. Cinema Supply and Design I thin kti stood for. They did the early UCI installs, and were the UK agents for the Spectra/FunDun/whatever. They closed up some time ago, one of theie employees was none other than Michael Denner of Dolby UK, and Glastonbury festival cinema fame.

AFAIK The machines are still made, as Kevin pointed out spares are available in Australia, so shouldn't be an unsurmountable problem here.

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 04-20-2003, 01:38 PM:

The design of the machine looks a lot like an ernamann 9

Posted by Richard Fowler (Member # 893) on 04-20-2003, 08:04 PM:

With a little mix of Meopta in the soundhead......
Richard Fowler
Kinoton America Inc.

Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 04-21-2003, 05:01 AM:

Mechanically, they looked like they were designed to withstand a direct hit from a Tinannenmen Square tank! I'm very glad it was Mat and not me who ended up heaving them out of that half-demolished cinema in Durham and not me. I don't think I'd have much back left by now otherwise...

Posted by Ben Wales (Member # 92) on 04-21-2003, 05:05 PM:

Here is a scanned image taken from the Cinema Supply & Design Sales details on the Spectra 90 Projector.

Posted by Mat Fleming (Member # 1685) on 04-22-2003, 11:33 AM:

I was going to take a new photo or 2 but I don't have to now. Thants the one, except ours have a horrible looking automation consoles on the front of the stand. Probably useful to some but we just want stop-go operation so it just adds an extra level of complication when we're trying to decipher the wiring and electronics.
We don't have arms to hold the reels either which would have been handy if we got any screening room business. Where they were they had cakestands but we've no room for one of those.
I'm looking for a tower I guess.

Thanks again for all your posts.

Mat

Posted by Peter Hall (Member # 695) on 04-22-2003, 12:28 PM:

Matt -

Even worse, your electrics are a hybrid design half way between the Donk Fenk and some undocumented CSD thing. And the automation - I MUST say however these machines are NOTHING like the mighty Ernemann 8 9 or 10 ! More like a GK37

Peter

Posted by Mat Fleming (Member # 1685) on 04-26-2003, 06:23 AM:

Thank you all.

One last question-

How heavy do you think one of these is (with and without rectifier)? How much should I worry about our sturdy, but wooden, floor?
It's only a vew feet above solid earth so stilts aren't out of the question.

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 04-26-2003, 10:50 AM:

I woudl be tempted to place some cement blocks shoring up the floor joists directly under the machines

Posted by Daryl C. W. O'Shea (Member # 1303) on 04-26-2003, 02:54 PM:

What Gord said.

If you can jump up and down and make the floor move ever so slightly, I'd be more than tempted to brace the floor with some concrete blocks. Just stack as some blocks at either end of the pedestal and shim the remaining gap (between the blocks and the floor joyces) with some wood shims.

Provided the floor was constructed 'somewhat properly' you don't have too much to worry about, but it is possible for the wood floor to start sagging a little. When supported by blocks you won't be wondering why the picture is slowly making its way off of the screen as the floor sags.

Posted by Kevin Baglow (Member # 721) on 04-26-2003, 08:16 PM:

I'm useing three the same, they give you an option of lens turrets now. Weight 450gk.
Had lunch with the factory owners in Tenjing, before I ordered them, 4 years ago. We've got them puring along nicely now- no job for an ameture though.

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 04-28-2003, 07:54 AM:

Another reason to have a solid, well supported floor is that any vibration of the projector will show up as unsteadiness of the image on the screen.

Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 04-28-2003, 08:39 AM:

You'd need force 9 on the Richter scale to shake those things! IMHO, if Mat doesn't reinforce the floor one of two things will happen: (i) the projector will sit perfectly still on the wooden floorboards, or (ii) there will be an almighty 'crunch', a cloud of dust and splinters, and then the projector will sit perfectly still on whatever is underneath those floorboards! [Big Grin]

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 04-28-2003, 08:42 AM:

Mass does have its advantages. Except when you have to move them. [Wink]