Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Disposing of PCB's

This is topic Disposing of PCB's in forum Film Handlers' Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.

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Posted by Josh Jones (Member # 447) on 04-20-2003, 09:08 PM:

What companies are out there in the Midwest that can do this? a local radio station has a 1.5KW FM PA that I could have once the PCB capacitors are removed and replaced.

Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 04-20-2003, 09:13 PM:

[evil]

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 04-20-2003, 10:01 PM:

Just take the whole thing and then remove the PCB capacitors and put them in your dads old garage to be soon forgotten about!! Best thing is to leave them at the station if possible. It is possible to ahev an entire transmitter with them as long as the trnsmitter is marked so and the proper authorities are notified as to the location of the transmitter.
Actually its ALOT less hassle to just leave em in the garage. Disposal and related paperwork could cost a fortune!
MArk

Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 04-20-2003, 10:21 PM:

Does your town have a "Haz-Mat Amnesty Program"?

My town does. Any hazardous material that people find in their houses can be brought to a designated location for proper disposal. 90% of things you bring... Old paint, mercury thermometers, antifreeze, solvents and chemicals, etc will be disposed of for free -- No questions asked.

There have been stories of people who have just bought homes and found some "strange and wonderful things" in the attic or basement when they were cleaning out the place. Over the years I have seen a few newpaper articles about people finding old hand grenades and and junk like that in the backs of closets. Almost always, they turn out to be duds. On one occasion, a guy turned in a mortar shell (or something like that) and it turned out to be LIVE! They actually had to call in the bomb squad on that one.

Still, the township wants to encourage people to get this hazardous junk OUT of people's homes where it could cause damage or kill somebody. As long as the person is acting in "good faith" they will just take the stuff and have it incinerated. (or whatever they have to do to it.)

I suppose if they would incur some extraordinary expense in handling or disposing of your hazardous material they could make you pay for it. (Tax $$$ pay for it ordinarily... You have to show proof of residence.)

If you are a business/industrial entity or if you have a large amount of material you WILL have to pay.

Thus, if your town has an amnesty program and you didn't have a huge amount of PCB to dispose of, both you AND the radio station could benefit:
Provided the containers are still sealed and can be moved safely, you get the equipment you are after and they get their hazardous materials problem taken care of for free (or at low cost.) You just go to the disposal location with a car load of junk and say something like, "I found this stuff in my basement and I want to get rid of it... My friend told me that I sould bring it here because it might be hazardous. He said something about 'clorinated phenols' or some such thing." Play innocent, doncha' know!! [Big Grin]

Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 04-20-2003, 10:37 PM:

Polychlorinated Biphenyl is a significant health hazard and is present in many capacitors made before 1997. Some television and radio receivers may contain these capacitors, unmarked with any safety warning.

PCB is non-biodegradeable and is persistent in the environment. It can be absorbed through the skin, causing a skin rash called chloracne, liver damage and an increase of the fat in the blood. Appropriate protective clothing must be warn when handling equipment containing PCBs, also when subject to high temperature PCB can produce potychlorinated dibenzofurans (PCDFs) and, in the presence of tri- or tetra-chlorobenzene some polychlorinated dibenzodioxins (PCDDs) can be formed too. Some of these substances are extremely toxic - much worse than PCB - thus PCBs involved in a fire can produce long-lasting contamination of buildings.

Capacitors containing PCBs fall into two categories, according to size. Small capacitors were used in fluorescent and other discharge luminaires and with fractional horse-power motors of the type used in domestic and light-industrial electrical equipment. They were not labelled as containing PCBs, although they were normally date-coded, Generally speaking, it must be assumed that capacitors manufactured before 1976 contain PCBs. As a precaution, operatives involved in replacing these capacitors should wear polythene or PVC gloves (not rubber), and these should be put, together with the capacitors and any waste wiping material used to clean the appliance, in a sealed polythene bag. Where large quantities of small capacitors are involved, they should be disposed at in the same way as large capacitors or transformers.

Large capacitors were used for power factor correction and similar duties. More recently manufactured capacitors were labelled as containing PCBs, but it should be assumed that capacitors manufactured before 1976 do contain PCBs.

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 04-21-2003, 08:08 AM:

I agree about taking it to your local haz-mat center. Be sure to label the components as having suspected PCB's.

Here's a list of commercial recyclers, some of which accept PCB waste:

http://www.oneplan.org/Farmstead/wasteHnd/rec07.htm

Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 04-21-2003, 01:58 PM:

I was searching to find out how serious the human safety aspects are of PCB's, and how much was considered to be toxic over how long of a time period. The only thing I found was supposedly "significant". Define significant. Is it a kinda-sorta thing, or do you have to take a bath in it before the toxic effects develope.

I bring this to your attention because I (along with countless people) have been exposed to PCB's for years on end with no ill side effects. Countless people who have been exposed to PCB's from the 1930's up to the persent day seem to be very healty for their age. I remember back in 1960 in the old "G-51" radar days (and more recently the "Q-124" in 1973) we handled PCB's regulary when changing magnetrons and pulse transformers. Often our hands were in contact with PCB's when replacing said items. If we decided to take a break in the middle of the job, it was not uncommon for us to simply take a shop rag to wipe our hands off, stuff the rag in our back pocket or toss it on the bench and then eat a sandwich.

I have never heard of one of my co-workers die of PCB related illnesses. They just kicked the bucket due to old age, auto accidents, alcohol abuse, drug abuse, or were just plain killed in a stupid accident. Many old radio station engineers (many who are in the late '70's and early 80's) are just chugging along as happy as can be even at their age. I am sure that in their professional travels they were probably nailed just as bad (if not worse) with PCB absortion in their skin than I was.

I know that stuff is hell as far as enviromental damage, but one has to take into consideration that PCB use was started in the 1930's and was used in capacitors up to 1997. That's about 67 years now.....

Just about any chemical today will kill a person if they get enough dose of it, whether it be PCB's, Benzene, synthetic engine oils, or too much booze. So what the hell is the difference? Everything is bad for you if you had too much of it.

Posted by Josh Jones (Member # 447) on 04-21-2003, 02:23 PM:

The recommendation I was presented with was to ask the local power company who they use for disposal. It turns out there are a few companies, namely Clean Harbors, out of Braintree, Mass. and Safty-Kleen out of Koffeeville Ks that handle and dispose of these chemicals. We also have a residential hazardous waste disposal site that handles all sorts of things. I went in and talked to him, but they cannot provide a paper trail that my donator legally needs to cover his butt.

Josh

Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 04-21-2003, 02:38 PM:

That'll work, Josh. [Smile]

At least you wouldn't have to foot the bill. If they are friends with the power company linemen, maybe they'll simply take it off their hands as a courtesy jesture.

By the way, what size are those capacitors? I'll try to scrounge up replacements for you.

Posted by Sam Hunter (Member # 1119) on 04-21-2003, 10:30 PM:

What the heck are you needing a BC transmitter for Josh? You going into broadcasting?

Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 04-21-2003, 10:59 PM:

Sam, wait until he tries to move that thing. It is like trying to move a 1,000-pound sleeping gorilla. I have a 1KW ITA at work as you know, and that thing is built like a brick shithouse. It weighs about 1,200 lbs. Just the back and front access doors of that beast must weigh at least 40 lbs each. The plate transformer, filament transformer, and filter chokes probably weigh in at about 400 lbs total.

About two years ago, we scrapped out a 1KW RCA transmitter at Moses Lake. That transmitter was so heavy that two of us had all we could do to shuffle it across the floor.

So, we just shoved it over on it's side with the assistance of a chain and a 3/4-ton pick-up truck. When the transmitter toppled to the floor, it felt like an earthquake. We then re-attached the chain and dragged the transmitter out of the building with the truck, leaving screech paths in its wake. I robbed it of all the bottles and the power supply filter choke. I was going to get the plate transformer, but it weighed too much for the little Honda I had to carry it.

Besides, it smelled very badly from about 10 years of mouse shit and snake shit that found its way into the cabnet. Practically made us gag our brains out.

As far as I know, the transmitter is still laying there in the field. A boom would be needed to pick it up and load it in a truck to haul it off.

Not related to the topic at hand, but I found out why gorillas sleep. It is because nobody has the balls to wake it up. [Big Grin]

Posted by Sam Hunter (Member # 1119) on 04-21-2003, 11:26 PM:

I love dropping heavy stuff [Big Grin]

I have never moved one but I seen the insides of a few and I could tell those suckers are not light. Wheres Josh going to put that thing as I thought he was running out of room at home, much less power it up. Takes three phase to power those things doesn't it?

Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 04-21-2003, 11:33 PM:

As far as I know, that thing of his requires single-phase power. (240 volts)

Posted by Josh Jones (Member # 447) on 04-22-2003, 08:40 AM:

I am going into broadcast engineering, but just in case I ever get into ham radio, you can tune these units to run on 2 meters, at full legal power. as far as I know it is single phase power.

Josh

Posted by Barry Floyd (Member # 385) on 04-22-2003, 09:52 AM:

Pauls recount of moving that transmitter, reminded me of the day me and a 17 year old kid from church decided we'd move two Ashcraft Core-Lite Rectifiers. I thought by the end of the day we were gonna die!!

Last Wednesday I moved a Kniesley "Kni-tron" power supply by myself, and it wasn't the smartest thing to do. I could barely walk upright for the two days following.

I just found out Sunday afternoon, that my parents are selling the property with the barn on it that houses all of my projection and concessions equipment. Unless I can find a better way to move them, or better yet.. find somebody who wants them... the Ashcraft rectifiers are staying in the barn when they sell it.

Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 04-22-2003, 01:50 PM:

Josh is one of the smarter kids. He has chosen a career path that pays well. I KNOW he will make a comfortable and enjoyable living in that field. [thumbsup]

But never fear....he'll keep his fingers in our industry, too. [Wink]

As a side note, it is truly amazing how many of us on FT have cross-bread between the theatre and broadcasting industry. I discovered that when I posted the topic about 4-400 tubes in that old ITA I have to keep on the air.

Both industries are loaded with the same type of people with the same interests. [Wink]

Posted by John Hawkinson (Member # 1135) on 04-22-2003, 08:37 PM:

Pallet jack.

--jhawk

Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 04-22-2003, 10:56 PM:

Pallet jack is too hard to roll around in desert sand. [Smile]