Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Recording sound in form of grooves on 35 mm film? You bet!

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Posted by Matthew Bailey (Member # 601) on 04-23-2003, 07:17 AM:

Long ago, I had tis idea or conceot of recoding film sountracks in the form of a stereo or mono groove onto 35 mm film where the optical soundtrack would normally be. While searching the net on a diffent subject, I happened to come across a subject on a recorder that recorded sound in the form of grooves onto 35 mm film. It is at http://www.rci.rutgers.edu/~dmorton/other_phonographs.htm
It is about a recorder that used an endless loop of 35 mm. film known as the Hart/Harton/Amertype recordograph.
Scroll down to the subject & pictures & also scroll down to below it to where it has a subject on a Jay Fonda recorder which used a similar but longer endless loop of film.

Posted by Richard Fowler (Member # 893) on 04-23-2003, 08:41 AM:

Victor talking machine had a recording system using a stylus on black film stock to record. This was used for a short while in the late 1920's very early 1930's by production companies such as Hal Roach. Improvements from Western Electric and RCA had the Victor system drop out of favor...many of the early music tracks on Laurel and Hardy used this system.
Richard Fowler
Kinoton America Inc.

Posted by Bruce McGee (Member # 131) on 04-23-2003, 05:08 PM:

Richard:

Was this system used on the early Roach "Little Rascals" shorts, also?

I recall seeing Victor sound on some of the earlier ones.

Posted by Hillary Charles (Member # 769) on 04-23-2003, 08:46 PM:

This idea goes WAY back. In Brian Coe's book, "The History of Movie Photography," he describes the work of F. von Madelar, who patented the idea of cutting a groove on the edge of the film. This was in 1913. In 1929, when the idea of sound-on-film was becoming popular, he revived the idea for 16mm. The grooves actually were cut on the base side OVER THE IMAGE AREA! Needless to say, the intentional 'scratches' were visible on the projected image, rendering the idea somewhat impractical.