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Posted by Don Anderson (Member # 397) on 04-27-2003, 10:53 PM:
 
Why is it that the studios can't place a note inside the shipping containers stating which trailers are attached to their prints???? Sometimes there is a printout mentioning what is attached, but most of the time its missing. I know that the chance of adding a trailer of the same title is one in a million, but I haven't been having good luck. This is twice this month that the trailer that I attached was the same as what the studio had placed on their print. Luckily, I preview the print the night before it is to play. Thank goodness fellow forum members are kind enough to post it here on the forum. Bravo, now if only the studios could do the same.
 

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Posted by Thomas Procyk (Member # 1170) on 04-27-2003, 11:35 PM:
 
Maybe you should pull the attatched trailer off (if you place a Feature Presentation snipe between your trailers and the movie) before you build up the rest of the trailer head.

=TMP=
 

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Posted by Aaron Sisemore (Member # 145) on 04-28-2003, 01:18 AM:
 
Most of the majors do enclose a note stating what is attached to the print.

On prints struck at Deluxe, the leader of reel 1 almost always mentions the attached trailer (the exception to this rule is if the trailer is spliced in as opposed to printed along with the feature). Look in the leader frames before the countdown.

-Aaron
 

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Posted by Mark Maxwell (Member # 1355) on 04-28-2003, 01:29 AM:
 
The chances aren't a million to one so you are not unlucky in that aspect. If you are like I was, you are limitted to how many trailors you have available, And didn't know what was attached. That used to happen to me. If you build that first reel up on an empty reel towards the end of the attached trailor and use a magnifying glass to read the name of the movie, it will help. More often than not, you are going to feel like you waysted your' time, but when you find out the attached trailor is one you almost put on, the time is definately worth it.
 

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Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 04-28-2003, 11:31 AM:
 
You guys don't remove the attached trailers? I always remove them and make up the trailer reel before making up the feature. How do you deal with bad splices made at the film depot with spliced-on attached trailers?

I think I've only once gotten a used print that had the "attached" trailer still attached (I removed it).

I love those TES labels that they put on the cans to indicate which trailers are supposed to be attached. Most of the time, they're just plain wrong (from an older film which was shipped in those cans, usually) or otherwise useless (e.g. "the MULTIPLE TRAILERS trailer has been attached to this print").
 

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Posted by Nicholas Roznovsky (Member # 861) on 04-28-2003, 12:50 PM:
 
I once had a print that came with a notice telling me: "Projectionist: Please note that 20TH CENTURY FOX has been attached to this print. Do not remove or otherwise edit this attached trailer."

Imagine my disappointment when the studio was nowhere to be found, just a lame trailer for one of their films.
 

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Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 04-28-2003, 12:58 PM:
 

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Please note that 20TH CENTURY FOX has been attached to this print.

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If they are so "attached" to the print, then why did they rent it out?
 

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Posted by Elvis Navas (Member # 1676) on 04-28-2003, 01:15 PM:
 
Don, you have an easy work because you receive the trailers attached to the print, we have to make up the trailers one by one each week plus make up the print. If the schedule programer become nut we have to make the trailers up again and again until three times per week.
 

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Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 04-28-2003, 01:55 PM:
 
Since virtually every theatre removes the attached trailers for sound logos and whatnot, why don't they just enclose them instead of bothering with attaching?
 

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Posted by Dustin Mitchell (Member # 372) on 04-28-2003, 03:01 PM:
 
By attaching them they can claim they are part of the movie and thus removing them would be a copyright violation. Or so I've been led to believe.

Not saying there is any legal weight to that claim, just that that could be their logic.
 

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Posted by John Hawkinson (Member # 1135) on 04-28-2003, 04:39 PM:
 
Mike asks, "Since virtually every theatre removes the attached trailers for sound logos and whatnot, why don't they just enclose them instead of bothering with attaching?"

I don't think it's anything like "virtually every theatre" that removes the attached trailers and does not put them back on.

I think the logic is pretty straightforward. Studios have found that attached trailers are more likely to be played by theatres than enclosed trailers. Especially if there are 5 enclosed trailers and 1 attached trailer, the 1 attached trailer is much more likely to be played than any single one of the enclosed trailers.

--jhawk
 

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Posted by William T. Parr (Member # 677) on 04-28-2003, 09:13 PM:
 
You know I tried to make that same point to the Operations Manager that is overmy theatre who also happens to be the Film Buyer for the circuit. He's stance is that the Studios strictly prohibit it and that N.A.T.O is totally against it. His idea of a trailer pack complete with sound snipe is this. 1) Sound Format trailer 2) Any two previews that did not come in the can 3) Attached preview uncut from the film 4) Then the feature itself. All I can say it what a Jack Ass
 

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Posted by Mark J. Marshall (Member # 1409) on 04-28-2003, 11:04 PM:
 
All the major chains I've ever been to all put a Feature Presentation snipe directly in front of the feature. Everyone knows this, so why does this practice continue? You'd think either a) the studios would yell at the theaters and make them stop doing that or b) they'd realize that people just cut the trailers off anyway and stop putting them on. I wonder how many prints come back to them without the attached trailer.
 

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Posted by Jack Ondracek (Member # 1466) on 04-29-2003, 12:57 AM:
 

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from Mark M.:
I wonder how many prints come back to them without the attached trailer.

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Having both an indoor house and a drive-in, I can tell you that it's extremely rare for me to find a trailer re-attached to a print. More likely, there are no trailers to be found at all. This is even more interesting when a print will arrive at my indoor house in 3 cans... one of which is full of trailers... but the same title (2 weeks old) will arrive at my drive-in as a normal 2-can shipment, sans trailers.

It's almost funny, were it not so tragic, to find an ID frame on the leader of reel 1 "This preview has been rated for all audiences..." etc, etc,

It does tend to make one understand the frustration that subsequent or sub-run houses are experiencing, not being able to secure a reliable source of trailers, when the first-run houses are brimming to the gills with the darn things... even more so when they get multiple prints (and trailer shipments).
 

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Posted by Aaron Garman (Member # 1653) on 04-29-2003, 02:06 AM:
 
Speaking of attached trailers, what is an easy way to determine where they end? I'm still learning booth, and I'm trying to find an easy way to locate where the attached trailers end so I can correctly place a sound snipe. So far, I have not had a bad splice, but I never know for sure. It seems that the spot to make the cut differs from print to print. I remember on Kangaroo Jack (Warner) there was a blue line, so I cut on that and everything was fine. Can anyone help me out on this one? Again, this is basically in regard to placing our sound snipes. Thanks.

AJG
 

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Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 04-29-2003, 06:09 AM:
 
I don't trust the "framelines" that are printed between attached trailers and the start of the feature to which they are attached. I've seen a more than a few such markings that aren't actually on the frameline.

I know some people will disagree, but I just cut a dozen or so frames past the fadeout of the attached trailer (fewer if I'm not going to actually use the attached trailer). This preserves a good amount of the black leader and allows a nice pause before the feature for the lights to finish dimming and for the audience to get settled.

I do leave the first frame of the MPAA ratings band attached to the R1 head as a sort of "reference frame"--not because I plan to reattach the trailer (I don't...sorry), but so that the next theatre will know that the cut was made in-frame if they will be running the print reel-to-reel.
 

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Posted by Mark J. Marshall (Member # 1409) on 04-29-2003, 01:07 PM:
 

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I can tell you that it's extremely rare for me to find a trailer re-attached to a print

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I don't think hardly anyone goes through the trouble to re-attach the trailer once it's been removed. So I find it a stupid assumption on the part of film execs to think that just because the thing is attached it has a better chance of being played. I just received a used (presumably for a premiere of some sort) print that came to us without the attached trailer for its opening week, and of course we don't have that trailer in stock either. And... it's MANDATORY from our corporate office! If it's mandatory, send it to me, and I'll attach it.
 

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Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 04-29-2003, 01:15 PM:
 
One thing to remember is that it's relatively easy to add the negative for the trailer to the beginning of reel 1, so all the release prints have the "attached" trailer without a splice in the print. Bottom line: it's simpler than printing the trailer separately.

The thing that's hard to understand is why go through the trouble of attaching trailers in positive assembly or at the exchange, where each of thousands of prints needs to have the trailer spliced on. Take alot of extra work, and just adds to the chance for an error.
 

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Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 04-29-2003, 03:10 PM:
 
Aaron,

If you look between the end of the attached trailer and the beginning of the feature and look closely at the analog sound track, 9 times out of 10 there is a blip in the analog track where the two thin lines are interrupted. This is the place to cut. It won't always be in frame though! There are two ways of determining the proper frameline on making your cut.

Make a dot with a Sharpie marker on the inboard edge between sprockets (opposite the soundtrack) beside the blip in the analog track, then run the film forward or backward (whichever is easiest) until you get to an obvious frame line, put the film in a frame counter and wind up until you get to your "dot" marker. If it is in frame, great. If not, make a more obvious mark, pull it off and cut it (one frame over on each side to lose the analog blip and the marks).

On Warner Bros films they will have about 10 feet of black in between the end of the attached trailer and the beginning of the feature. As such, there are two analog blips (one at the beginning of the black stretch and one at the end). I cut at the first one. If you feel the pause before the feature is too long, you can always trim off a few feet.

That's the long way. Here's the short way. Within a foot of the analog blip there is always a light line that is visible across the frame if held directly up to a bright light. That line is always in frame. From there, just count over a few frames to the analog blip point for your cut. Neumade splicers are extra convenient here, for their registration block is exactly 8 frames long.

Regarding trailers, on the last day of an engagement I am now teaching to remove any policy, sound logos or ads from the film. This prevents breakdown damage to those snipes that must run thousands upon thousands of times should the film slip or the center ring give. It also allows the breakdown projectionist to let the entire trailer pack pull right off onto reel 1 for shipping back to the depot. Since first run theaters really don't need 10 million trailers in their cabinet, it is now my policy to try and help out the theaters who don't get their films on the break. They would've just been thrown away anyway, as the studios don't pay for return shipping and the theaters certainly won't foot the bill. Plus when the next guy get it, odds are there will be a smile on his face when he received a pristine print with a full trailer pack.
 

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Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 04-29-2003, 06:00 PM:
 
There's good and bad side. If I get a print with multiple trailers attached, I have to go thru and ID all of them, and (usually) pull out at least one or two that we aren't going to play, or have already played.

But don't get me wrong...it's great to get attached trailers with a print. It's saved our butt more than once.

In the ideal world, the best thing would be to include a list of what's attached. The only way THAT would work is if every theatre down the road would keep the list updated. Yeah, like THAT would happen.
 

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Posted by Steve Kraus (Member # 476) on 04-29-2003, 06:54 PM:
 
Don complained:
This is twice this month that the trailer that I attached was the same as what the studio had placed on their print.

Are you too lazy to look to see what it is first? At best it's identified in the scribbles on the leader. At worst you have to take a minute or two to wind it down on the bench to see the title. Another instance of the never ending quest to shave seconds and minutes off the job.
 

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Posted by Don Anderson (Member # 397) on 04-29-2003, 09:52 PM:
 
No Steve, I'm not lazy. Perhaps too busy. I work for a small theatre. I tear down and build up all prints, do all equipment and building repairs (with phone help from American Cinema), clean ,do all paperwork, change signage, recordings, one sheets, inventory, sell and or tear tickets, sell concessions at times, program latenight shows, and more. I simply would like the studios to forget placing trailers on their print. Let us do it. Seems like most of you yank them off anyways. Plus, the studios usually end up shipping me the same trailers to boot. Ugh.
 

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Posted by Mark Maxwell (Member # 1355) on 04-30-2003, 12:33 AM:
 
As far as cutting attached trailors, I've always believed that what comes on those reels is what they want shown. As far as someone being lazy, I wouldn't say that anyone who took their' off time to search online, find this website, and start posting replies, and looking for advise to be lazy. When I first started I was trained to do things I wouldn't even admit to now.
 

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Posted by William Leland III (Member # 1400) on 04-30-2003, 02:07 PM:
 
I agree, that attached trailers suck. They create more of a problem than help us out. I always have problems splicing back on the attached trailer to our policy.

I remember when we got "Blackhawk Down" and the studio wanted 6' of black tape (loose in the can) put on before the opening credits. They also had an attached trailer.

They had put "guide lines" in the cans telling projectioninst what order to put the attached trailer and black tape. It made no sense to me, lucky for us we had 2 prints, I did it the way I thought they had wanted it and my way. My way, needless to say, was correct and had to go back and correct it the 2nd print.
 

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Posted by Mark J. Marshall (Member # 1409) on 04-30-2003, 02:55 PM:
 

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Seems like most of you yank them off anyways.

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And I'll say it again, I'm pretty sure the reason studios attach trailers is because that way they can claim it is part of the feature and therefore, by the booking contract, must be played.

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Just reminding folks that time is short for some of us, so stupid stuff like trailers attached to a print are just one more thing to slow us down in our quest to do film right!

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"Film Done Right" is more than just technical know-how, it's providing a presentation that's top quality, start to finish. Honestly, your paying customers won't care how clean your booth floor is or how properly ventilated your sound rack may be when they're sitting through the same lame five minute trailer for the second time. It may not be as glorious or fulfilling as taking care of machinery or the main print, but "stupid" trailers are an important part of making up prints.

Also, as for time constraints, prints rarely show up on Thursday night. If attachments are a big concern, it doesn't hurt to pop them out before it's time to build them up and see what's going on. It's a lot easier to sort things out when it's not late at night and you're working on your fourth or fifth print.

If I went somewhere and had to sit through the same trailer twice, I wouldn't go back. It's definitely worth the few extra minutes to make sure your presentation is quality. It's definitely worth the extra time checking while building up the print as opposed to getting complaints from customers and having to spend even more time the next night or between shows yanking the redundant trailer out.

I honestly can't remember getting a print without one or two obnoxious letters telling me what would happen to me if I cut attached trailers. Often, I get these threatening letters in my UPS and FedEx deliveries too. Maybe they're targeting me specifically ( ), but the distributors seem to make a pretty good fuss about what's attached.

And, if they don't, you can always make a two minute call to the distributor's regional office to get running time and attachments info. Should you have to? No, of course not, but in the end it is your theater's presentation quality which is on the line. Your customers won't leave thinking "Those jerks at Warner Brothers didn't tell the theater about that attached print." They'll leave thinking that you don't care enough about your presentation to check what's making it on the screen.
 

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Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 05-01-2003, 12:27 AM:
 

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prints rarely show up on Thursday night

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it's easier to print the attached trailer as part of the printing negative for reel 1.

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Easier than what? They print the trailers stand alone anyway. Seems to me that printing stand alone trailers AND printing as part of a print is more work. Just throw one in the can!

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When trailers are printed individually, are they separated and labelled by machine, or is it a manual process involving lots of workers at rewind benches winding trailers onto cores and attaching the stickers by hand?

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AFAIK, mostly a manual operation.

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