This is topic It's A Mad, Mad, Mad, Mad World -- Seeking Trims & Misc. Footage in forum Film Handlers' Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.


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Posted by Robert Harris (Member # 1712) on 05-05-2003, 07:00 AM:
 
I'm checking with this group as projectionists have always had the sensibility to not throw away certain sprocketed items which others may find of no value.

While we have located a good amount of 6 track audio (fullcoat) and a number of 70mm print picture trims on Mad World, the world-wide search continues.

The original negative was cut and conformed to the 154 minute version in December of 1963, after the production of over thirty 70mm prints in both standard Ultra-Panavision and rectified format, plus at least a dozen 35mm magnetic prints.

The majority of the 70mm prints were replaced with new short versions and recut in January of 1964. After re-cutting they were re-recorded with the newly cut short version audio.

In April of 1964 the 65mm Oneg was shipped in its newly cut form to Technicolor London, where the majority of later printings were performed for worldwide distribution. We recently brought in a 70mm print from Austrailia which was of London manufacture and is confirmed as the short version.

We're hopeful that somehow either trims or reels of long version prints may have survived somewhere in the world that we have not yet checked.

Any information or leads gratefully accepted.
 

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Posted by David Kilderry (Member # 142) on 05-05-2003, 07:40 AM:
 
Hi Robert,

This has been my number 1 70mm film for the restoration process. Glad to know you found a complete print from Australia even though it was the short version. I'm sorry my IAMMMMW 70mm footage turned out to be from the short version too, but if you dig up stuff anywhere, it will be here at Film Tech.

If it was not for projectionists, much of the worlds cinematic heritage would have been lost. Film distribution companies must understand the difference between genuine film collectors and film pirates. I know many genuine film collectors world-wide and not one of them ever has, or would consider, copying their film for illeagle sale on tape or disc. They value and preserve what the worlds film production companies, and the corporates who consumed them, have neglected.

If only more had been like Charlie Chaplin, who kept mint 35mm prints of his own films.

David Kilderry
 

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Posted by Claude S. Ayakawa (Member # 1401) on 05-05-2003, 12:47 PM:
 
I do not know if it is true or not but I heard that there is only one print of "FROM HERE TO ENERNITY" with a mag stereo track from the film's original release in 1953. The print is in the hands of a private collector who has even refused Columbia Home Video from using it when they released the film on tape, laserdisc and the original DVD. When Columbia recently issued a Superbit DVD in stereo for the very first time, the magnificent sound was created from new and original sound elements and I was very impressed with the effort and stated that when I reviewed the DVD here at Film Tech.

Yes, private collectors protects films from being reproduced even when the purpose is legitimate.

I was fortunate to see "IT's A MAD,MAD, WONDERFFUL WORLD" in 1963 during it's original road show release at Honolulu's Cinerama Theatre in what was billed as the very first single projector Cinerama film instead of 70mm Ultra Panavision. I have owned the 'complete' film on a boxed MGM laserdisc for years with the missing footage represented by still photographs. From what I saw, you do have your work cut out for you.

Welcome to Film Tech, Mr. Harris. I have always admired your work especially the restoration efforts you had made with "LAWRENCE OF ARABIA", "SPARTACUS" and "MY FAIR LADY"

-Claude
 

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Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 05-05-2003, 01:00 PM:
 
Welcome to Film-Tech, where people believe in "Film Done Right!"
 

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Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 05-05-2003, 02:11 PM:
 
And welcome once again from another AMIA refugee...
 

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Posted by Robert Harris (Member # 1712) on 05-05-2003, 05:14 PM:
 
To the best of my knowledge original stereo prints of From Here to Eternity would most likely have been double system with a three track mag.

RAH
 

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Posted by Edwin Graf Diemer (Member # 545) on 05-05-2003, 10:56 PM:
 
You're right-it would have to be interlock since "Eternity" opened in August, at least in New York City! There is a neat two-page ad of the front of NYC's Capitol Theater in the 8/15/53 issue of "Motion Picture Herald" (p 14-15), and the marquee says "Giant Screen-Stereophonic Sound".
 

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Posted by Dick Vaughan (Member # 540) on 05-06-2003, 02:45 AM:
 
Robert

Nice to se you on Film-Tech. Sorry to see your search hasn't yet turned up the missing footage.
The need for such a restoration was made all more apparent by the screening of a pan and scan version of IAMMMMW on UK terrestrial TV yesterday,despite it having been advertised as widescreen.
 

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Posted by Steve Kraus (Member # 476) on 05-06-2003, 06:42 PM:
 
I presume the actual restoration would be in the original UP70 format. But what format release prints?
 

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Posted by Robert Harris (Member # 1712) on 05-07-2003, 07:42 AM:
 
Release format would be UP70 as a number of sets of projection optics are available. Dependent upon venue, the projected image could be cropped to as narrow as 2.55 as necessary.

One of our problems is that much of the extant 70mm trim footage is rectified, which would have to be digitally brought back to a standard 1.25 squeeze.
 

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Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 05-07-2003, 09:38 PM:
 
Hey Bob,
I have a really nice UP projection attachment here if ya need it. Its like brand new.....
Mark @ CLACO
CLACO Equipment And Service
Salt Lake City, UT
 

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Posted by Darren Briggs (Member # 1071) on 05-11-2003, 03:26 AM:
 
Hi Robert, Darren in York here,
So if its going to be a UP70 release print, as I only have a flat screen how will I beable to screen it without distortion??
Need a UP lens?
Dick at Bradford is the only place in the UK with a propper curved screen, Ill do the U.K.premier flat screen premier though!

Darren
 

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Posted by Robert Harris (Member # 1712) on 05-11-2003, 10:18 AM:
 
Darren...

The UP70 releases were printed to be projected on both highly curved and flat screens.

UP70, with its 1.25:1 anamorphosis would be unsqueezed using the proper optics to anywhere between a 2.55 to 2.76:1 aspect ratio on a flat screen or...

projected on highly curved screens in a rectified print which was optically printed from the original negative to fully unsqueeze and area of approx 2/3 of the frame with the far sides being given an even greater squeeze, which would be "physically" unsqueezed by the distortion created by the highly curved surfaces of the screen sides.

There was a double inventory of prints.

When I replied that the probably plan, if the project moves forward, would be to create UP70 normal squeeze prints, is that I would not plan to create rectified prints or a double inventory as the number of venues with highly curved screens is slowly, and unfortunately, moving toward extinction.

RAH
 

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Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 05-11-2003, 10:55 AM:
 
I would like to see the up70 of Mutiny on the bounty restored
 

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Posted by Steve Kraus (Member # 476) on 05-11-2003, 11:14 PM:
 
If you do some of this work digitally, what rez would you work at?
 

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Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 05-12-2003, 01:34 AM:
 
Starting from wide format originals, I'd hazard a guess at well over 4k.

Do his res film scanners and laser recorders exist which can run 65/70mm elements?
 

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Posted by Frank Aston (Member # 478) on 05-12-2003, 01:44 AM:
 
Unfortunatly I can't be of any help regarding IAMMMMW but thanks to Brad and this board for the opportunity to thank and congratulate the great Robert Harris for his wonderful work on film restoration.
Robert. You have made possible some of the most unforgettable, movie experiences of the past couple of decades. I for one never dreamed I'd be able to see the likes of LAWRENCE OF ARABIA, SPARTACUS and MY FAIR LADY back where they belong on the BIG SCREEN.
Good luck with IAMMMMW and once again deepest thanks and best wishes.

Frank Aston.
 

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Posted by Robert Harris (Member # 1712) on 05-12-2003, 07:25 AM:
 
Gordon,

Mutiny should not need any actual restoration, as it has never been re-cut and seldom printed. As it was probably shot on 5251, there should be little dye fade. The greatest problem would be splices opening from age and cleaning.

The only real work that would need to be done would be the production of a new 65mm IP, a bit of color timing, another IP and a dupe for printing.

The term "film restoration" has lost its meaning these days and tends to be overused, usually by publicists.
 

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Posted by Claude S. Ayakawa (Member # 1401) on 05-12-2003, 05:52 PM:
 
I recall seeing pictures of what looked like the original camera negatives of "IT'S A MAD MAD MAD MAD WONDERFUL WORLD" that Ronald Epstein had posted at the Home Theatre Forum some time ago. in his report, Ron Epstein had told the readers of Mr Harris's effort to find all the missing film and sound elements so he can restore the film to the way it was first presented when it was first shown during it world premiere road showing. What I saw was a mess and the elements looked like they could not be salvaged but I could be wrong. I would sure like to see the complete film either in a theatre in UP 70mm or on a beautifully replecated DVD of images made directly from a 70mm print with the true full Ultra Panavasion ratio of 2.76.1. The full version is a must because the current DVD on the market is not as good as the original from what I could tell by comparing it to the 'almost' complete laserdisc box set edition.

-Claude
 

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Posted by Bill Gabel (Member # 1105) on 05-12-2003, 06:09 PM:
 
Claude

There isn't a "Wonderful" in the title.
 

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Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 05-12-2003, 06:12 PM:
 
There are a number of film scanners that can handle 70mm gauge film as well as other formats like 8/35. Most 70mm CGI work is done for special venue in 8/70 and 15/70 formats.

I hope IAMMMMW is able to be fully restored, but I also hope any digital work is done at as high a resolution as possible. 4K should be the starting point for any 5/70 work and perhaps arguably pushed higher than that.

70mm has lots of potential to make any computer generated flaws visible. I laughed out loud at the end titles of "Fantasia 2000". You could see the rasterized pixel blocks plain as day on the 15/70 print.

That's the sin of throwing in something too low in rez. It might be forgivable when someone throws a crude, stupid 72ppi JPEG into a trifold brochure publication made at 200lpi. But low rez computer stuff on film really sucks in giant form.
 

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Posted by Claude S. Ayakawa (Member # 1401) on 05-12-2003, 07:23 PM:
 
Hi Bill.

Thanks for the correction. So far, it has been a WONDERFUL day for me so I just felt like adding it to the title of the movie.

-Claude
 

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Posted by Bill Gabel (Member # 1105) on 05-12-2003, 07:48 PM:
 
Hi Claude

I just saw the pictures on your site. Those are some Wonderful
shots that you have taken.
Very Nice

Bill

During the 25th Anniversary of the Cinerama Dome they showed a
35mm print of "Mad World". They also missing a change-over on
that show. It showed a few days later with another print that
was a pan/scan print. But for the final night they got another
35mm scope print to show. I was at the first night screening
and sat next to Saul Bass and his daughter.
 

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Posted by Robert Harris (Member # 1712) on 05-13-2003, 08:45 AM:
 
We're currently working on the restoration of Williamsburg: The Story of a Patriot for the Colonial Williamsburg Foundation, which is a Vista production.

After a great deal of experimentation, both faded Oneg and 8 perf sep masters have been scanned at CineSite at 6k, which was then downrezzed to 3 for image manipulation and record.

While older negative, especially pre-1962 can be scanned at 2k, it has been found that duping from a recorded element through generations for printing creates more image problems when derived from a digitial image, than from a photo optical element.

New sep masters will also be recored out at 3k in Vista.

The important thing to understand about digital is that no one knows anything.

You must test everything to find your way through the morass of mis-information.

BTW, reference for this film in 35mm is difficult to find. We have reel 2A/B in dye transfer courtesy of Film-Tech's own Scott Norwood.
 

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Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 05-13-2003, 09:17 AM:
 

quote:

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While older negative, especially pre-1962 can be scanned at 2k, it has been found that duping from a recorded element through generations for printing creates more image problems when derived from a digitial image, than from a photo optical element.

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quote:

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The important thing to understand about digital is that no one knows anything.

You must test everything to find your way through the morass of mis-information.

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