Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Cinemeccanica Xenon interface

This is topic Cinemeccanica Xenon interface in forum Film Handlers' Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.

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Posted by Antonio Marcheselli (Member # 373) on 05-13-2003, 05:33 PM:

Hi everyone

I need help with the device you can found in the cinemeccanica's lamphouses, the one that detect if the lamp is light or not.

This interface, if I correctly understood, sense the no-load voltage of the rectifier and starts the igniter to light the lamp. After that, if the lamp is not light it shut off the projector. To sense if the lamp is light or not I believe there are two version of this interface: one has a reed diode and sense the voltage: when the lamp is lit the tension drop to 30/40V (from 100V of no-load tension). Another version has a photodiode on it and sense the light directly.

I have troubles with the one without the photodiode. Are there somewhere some schematics of it? Can you help me understanding this device?

Thanks for your help!!

Antonio

Posted by Carmine Occhino (Member # 1699) on 05-14-2003, 10:11 AM:

Did you check out the Cinemeccanica lamphouse manuals on this website ? They have some schematics of the striking unit, but I'm not sure if it is exactly what you need.

Posted by Ray Derrick (Member # 1001) on 05-14-2003, 10:17 AM:

Antonio, you're Italian and you don't understand a Cinemeccanica? What hope is there for the rest of us?

Posted by Antonio Marcheselli (Member # 373) on 05-14-2003, 02:12 PM:

Italians Cinemeccanica's techs SUCKS!!!

They're changing this interface with others and others without reaching a solution. One of the solution could be to spray a lot of WD40 on it and see if the problem goes away...

Really, can someone help me?

Posted by Jean-Michel Grin (Member # 1360) on 05-14-2003, 02:33 PM:

Hi Antonio,

By the past I've encountred some problems with an Zenith 6500 Lampouse on a V8 with the auto strike function. The relay was burned, No shematics exist, and I drawed all the connections to fix and resolve the problem.
For an system who stop the projector in case of Xenon failure, I've just glued and reed relay contact on the ignition coil, with a special epoxide glue, and connected it to the "siccurezza" relay Input (same as the platters failsafe input).
with this thing, If the xenon Lamp comes out when the douser is Open, the projector fail in "Sicurrezza" mode.
I'ts a $ 5 solution an Its work well [Smile]

Sorry my English is realy bad, But If You're Interested by the shematics and the tips to place the reed contact on the coil; just send me an E-mail and it will be my pleasure to post pictures and schematics of the system.

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 05-14-2003, 02:42 PM:

Hey,
Just get one of those Phillips washing machine motors and use that for an interface. Someone said they work for just about everything.....so just a thought! [Big Grin]

So, here in the states we run em on vacuum cleaner motors and over there you build em with washing machine motors........its all appliance related I guess.....
Mark

Posted by Jeff Taylor (Member # 443) on 05-14-2003, 02:44 PM:

Jean-Michel (and Antonio): Don't ever feel awkward about your English. Many of us have enough trouble speaking one language! Good work.

Posted by Jean-Michel Grin (Member # 1360) on 05-15-2003, 01:35 PM:

Hi Antonio,

Here Is a pic of the igniter side of a Cinemeccanica Zenith 6500 Lamphouse.
This pic will present to You how we did to check if the xenon bright or not. The little black item mounted on the brown ignition coil is just a reed contact actioned by the magnetic field generated by the coil.
The relay on the right hand of the pic, is the "no load voltage" relay. I'ts work to supply the igniter in 230v to produce the high voltage spark.

The reed contact tip is really easy and work well [Smile]

Posted by William Phillips (Member # 1162) on 05-15-2003, 01:47 PM:

Hi Antonio

Whats the Cinemeccanica part number. If its D06296 then ive got a diagram [Smile]

Posted by Dave Macaulay (Member # 813) on 05-15-2003, 08:15 PM:

Strong uses a sensor (the same one as on the console doors) to sense lamp surrent with the CNA automation. It gets clamped to one of the lamp cables. That looks a lot like the thing in your picture. The Strong one is not a reed switch though as far as I know, it is an electronic switch of some mysterious type. To use this as a door safety switch in the console, high-reactance rectifiers need a current limiting circuit installed but switchers don't. That makes me believe it's electronic... plus I think Troy told me it is...?
Anyway, I suppose my point is that if your switch thingy is in fact the same sort of thingy, it is apparently fairly easy to burn out by having the wrong sort of load applied. What happens if you just short out the terminals? Does the automation think all is well??

Posted by Jean-Michel Grin (Member # 1360) on 05-16-2003, 06:06 AM:

Hi Dave,

On my knoweldge, Strong Use magnetics switches on their lamphouse's dors, but on the console that we use all switches are conventional push button. On some X-90 and Highlight consoles a magetic switch is located on the xenon cable to check the current and give the information on the CPA-10 or CNA automation if the xenon burn or not.
I never see an Hall captor like this one used to adjut automaticaly the current of the lamp, but maybe I'm wrong...
On Hight reactance power supply, there only an coil inductance at the positive output polarity to filter or "clean" the current (more the current is hight more the inductance act)
On switching power supply the current is mesured trought a shunt to control the oscillating circuit.
On some power supply you could find an intensity transformer, who influenced by the magnetic field of the DC output cable, but for the reason the current is DC, You need an special oscillating circuit to feed this transformer: The current inducted by the DC lead passing trought the coil of the transformer, will modify the behaviour of the oscillating signal and you can compare the difference between the main oscillator and the signal at the output of the intensity transformer to pilot the main switching power supply. I believe that work like this but is a little complicated... And worst with my weak English [Embarrassed]

On the lamphouse of the pic, the magnetic reed contact, is energised by the low-voltage supply of the failsafe circuit avaible on Cinemeccanica projectors. There is no danger to overload the contact.
But if You short-circuited the two wires of the NC circuit during the show, the projector will stop...
It's a verry simple trick but it work fine from years [Smile]

Bye.

Jean-Michel

Posted by Pete Naples (Member # 761) on 05-16-2003, 06:18 AM:

I've never seen a Strong console arrive with any kind of xenon sensing circuitry fitted, even those factory prewired with CNA. I've always had to install something myself. Usually a simple LDR.